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Ellison Holds Lead

Visbek said:
Are you living in a fantasy world?

Have you really forgotten about the leftist anti-globalism movement? The Battle in Seattle? Protests against the WTO, G8, IMF?

*snip

And who backs free trade?

Cato Institute supports free trade
Heritage Foundation too
Reagan supported free trade
Bush 41 not only supported free trade, he negotiated AND signed NAFTA
More Republicans in Congress voted for NAFTA than Democrats
Bush 43 supported free trade (and signed numerous FTAs)
Gingrich wanted it
Ron and Rand Paul support free trade; Rand even insisted Obama prioritize the TPP in 2014
Milton Friedman, the ultimate libertarian economist, supported free trade

I could be here all night listing pro free trade / pro-globalism conservatives and Republicans.

And as I pointed out a day or so ago....

Free trade: Minimal government involvement or interference. Faith in the basic idea that trade is advantageous to all parties. Faith in markets to lower prices and increase efficiency. Treats labor like another market. Lowers costs for producers and consumers. Favors multinational corporations. Use of international lawsuits to settle disputes.

Protectionism: Government interfering on behalf of locals. Government picks winners. Government regulates trade. Distrust in the fundamental economic idea (which started with Adam Smith's Wealth of Nations) that trade benefits all parties. Claims to protect labor. Increases costs and reduces choices for producers and consumers. Often criticized for causing environmental harm. Often anti-corporate. Major tool of protectionism is increasing taxes -- when was the last time a conservative wanted to increase taxes?!?

Which of these two sounds conservative?

The reality is that the vast majority of conservatives and Republicans supported free trade pretty much right up to November 8th. Even now, many reject protectionism and the mercantilist mindset behind it.
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Now that Trump is in office, conservative memory on free trade is as short as it is on deficits.
 
Cigar said:
At this stage of the game I don't care who Wins, I just want an individual who isn't afraid to treat The GOP and The Republicans Party with the exact same level of respect they gave over the last several years.

That's fare to me ... ;)
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Democrats running for the DNC chair certainly look like the adults in this Nation compared to the GOP circus debates .
 
Kurmugeon said:
Has there ever been a case of an American Born Muslim, who went radical, and started attacking his fellow countrymen, screaming the Muslim War-Cry, that didn't first become radicalized by significant contact with FORIEGN-BORN Muslims from a list of around 12 countries?

Name One!

99.99% of American Born Muslims, particularly those whose families have been American for several generations, are about like any other American, in respect, tolerance, and peaceful interactions.

America's Islamic Problem stems from Foreign Born Muslims, almost entirely.

And before you say, "But the Orlando Attacker was American Born", do a bit of homework. He did not become a mass murderer, until he had significant contact with foriegn born Muslims in an American Soil Mosque, who directed him to visit foreign based web sites, then took a trip to the Middle East, where he converted and swore his alegence to ISIS.


A foreign born person from one of the Radical Muslim Countries, who entered America under the guise of a "Refugee", who is actually Recruiter for ISIS, ....

The ISIS Recruiter on American Soil has a job to do! That job is NOT committing terror attacks themselves, but rather to recruit Americans to commit such attacks against their fellow countrymen!

Not All, or even most, just just a small percentage of the Foreign Born Muslims brought to America by Obama are ISIS recruiters... but then, it doesn't take many to kill allot of Americans! Just ask those in Orlando, Boston, Ohio, Texas, California, Oregon, New York...

Which is why the much maligned and mis-represented, Trump Temporary Travel Restriction, and the soon to be implemented "Extreme Vetting" makes so freak'n much sense.

But the Democratic Party has made HATRED of the Deplorables, based on this common sense defensive strategy, into a party acceptance, Political LITMUS test.

Well, that's a recipe for Political Party Extinction.


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There was the Fort Hood Muslim army guy. That was ultimately declared a terrorist event, but at times called a workplace mass shooting. Ultimately, it was decided to be a terrorist event.

He hadn't been hanging with foreigners, here or abroad. He did start reading websites, and he emailed Al-Awlaki, another American born Muslim. This was known for years before the shooting. The investigators didn't find any orders or directions or encouragement from anyone. He seems to have done this all on his own. A foreign jihadist leader even declared the event as being by a disturbed person, and did not help the cause. The shooter, Hasan, was apparently disturbed by stories he heard from American soldiers (Hasan was a soldier himself) about what they did in the war (presumably to Muslims), and that he was being deployed to Afghanistan to fight Muslims. But the foreign jihadist leader said that Hasan didn't have to do his act to get out of being deployed; he could have gotten out of it another way. A family spokesman said that Hasan's family condemned the mass shooting and that his actions weren't reflective of the way they were raised.

There was no contact with a foreign recruiter, either in person or on the internet, as far as anyone could tell. And he had been under surveillance for years. There had been meetings about him several times because of the way he was acting. His fellow soldiers had complained about him, and he wasn't performing well.

I don't see how vetting can weed out recruiters. Unless that's just what they say they'll do, but what they'll really do is deny everyone, unless they've got a job with a big company here.
 
Uh oh, Andrea Mitchell just floated Hillary 2020 :(.
 
countryboy said:
Maybe you should educate yourself, instead of just blindly following along. ;)
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I am not following....or arguing. It's not my political party, so it's not my decision or concern.

I take your response to mean that you don't have any evidence he's an anti-Semite (as in direct anti-Semitic statements or actions). As I suspected you would not. Many conservatives seem to be just silly name callers and negative. They bloviate without any facts to back up their statements. Who does that remind us of?
 
Cigar said:
At this stage of the game I don't care who Wins, I just want an individual who isn't afraid to treat The GOP and The Republicans Party with the exact same level of respect they gave over the last several years.

That's fare to me ... ;)
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I agree. I think the best strategy is to insult their way into power. That'll work perfect.
 
Winston said:
Uh oh, Andrea Mitchell just floated Hillary 2020 :(.
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You mean Dana Bash---and yes Democrats do need to go back to being a 50-state big tent party as Mayor Bettigieg states .
 
NIMBY said:
You mean Dana Bash---and yes Democrats do need to go back to being a 50-state big tent party as Mayor Bettigieg states .
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haha, yeah. my bad on getting her confused with Andrea Mitchell.

Yeah, 50 state strategy! If Democrats want to win some seats in the midterms. Here's what they do. Take 80% of Bernie's platform. Single-payer, Campaign Finance Reform, Transform our Energy System, No more wars, Income inequality, hammer those 5 points home. Hammer them home. If some republican gets lippy with socialist accusations, tell them they're the socialist for advocating wealth redistribution through cutting government agency to pay for tax cuts. Democrats need to bring Bernie's message to areas of the country that went to Trump. Bernie has a winning message because he has the truth on his side. And Democrats need to retake Illinois, PA, WI, etc. etc. As well as get enterprising in the south. Funds permitting.
 
JumpinJack said:
I am not following....or arguing. It's not my political party, so it's not my decision or concern.

I take your response to mean that you don't have any evidence he's an anti-Semite (as in direct anti-Semitic statements or actions). As I suspected you would not. Many conservatives seem to be just silly name callers and negative. They bloviate without any facts to back up their statements. Who does that remind us of?
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Not sure why some libs feel the need to pretend they are "independents", but, whatever.

Would a person who supports Jews work for a notorious Jew hater? No, they wouldn't.

Rep. Keith Ellison faces renewed scrutiny over past ties to Nation of Islam, defense of anti-Semitic figures - CNNPolitics.com

Farrakhan: 'Lying, murderous Zionist Jews' behind 9/11 | The Times of Israel
 
Mycroft said:
Perez will win. He has the backing of the Democratic Elites.

Ellison will be trashed because of his anti-antisemitism. He'll end up like Milo.
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The elites particularly enjoyed Perez' involvement with sabotaging Bernie Sander's campaign. I'm pretty sure if anything that's what will put him over the top.
 
reinoe said:
The elites particularly enjoyed Perez' involvement with sabotaging Bernie Sander's campaign. I'm pretty sure if anything that's what will put him over the top.
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Sanders was a Troll, still is. The DNC was right to squash his bid. Same with the Muslim.
 
countryboy said:
Not sure why some libs feel the need to pretend they are "independents", but, whatever.

Would a person who supports Jews work for a notorious Jew hater? No, they wouldn't.

Rep. Keith Ellison faces renewed scrutiny over past ties to Nation of Islam, defense of anti-Semitic figures - CNNPolitics.com

Farrakhan: 'Lying, murderous Zionist Jews' behind 9/11 | The Times of Israel
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I am an Independent. You don't seem to know the definition of Independent. It means I don't affiliate with any particular political party. I am neither a Democrat nor a Republican. I vote for Democrats sometimes and Republicans sometimes. I don't like either major political party.

You are thinking of the word "moderate." Moderate is not the same thing as Independent.

It is inappropriate for you to personally attack me, when I give a viewpoint. Just as when others attack you personally for a reason unrelated to the viewpoint you express. But that's a page out of Trump's playbook, so what else can others expect?

I voted for Trump in the primary.

Back to the subject of my post and this thread (instead of a personal attack on me for expressing a dispassionate and reasoned view), I see nothing in those two articles citing instances where Ellison made anti-Semitic statements or did any anti-Semitic behavior. The second article doesn't even reference Ellison.

This looks like alt-righters trying to make an issue out of nothing, to cause trouble in their opponent's political party. The Democratic Party, the party that most Jews belong to, would not make its chair an anti-Semitic person.

I can see how not hating someone just for the heck of it would upset alt-righters, since hatred and anger are the main schtick of alt-righters. They don't understand tolerance and judging on an individual basis.

But as I say, I have no horse in that race. It is not my concern who they elect as their DNC chair. It doesn't matter what I think or you think.
 
DamnYankee said:
What progressive values would that be? Higher taxes, greater regulations, open borders, more people on welfare, money for globalists? Those values? Well, it has worked so far, I suppose. I mean there are more local, state, and federal offices to be lost by leftists.

Go Ellison!!
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The progressives advocate for more people on welfare?
 
JumpinJack said:
I am an Independent. You don't seem to know the definition of Independent. It means I don't affiliate with any particular political party. I am neither a Democrat nor a Republican. I vote for Democrats sometimes and Republicans sometimes. I don't like either major political party.

You are thinking of the word "moderate." Moderate is not the same thing as Independent.

It is inappropriate for you to personally attack me, when I give a viewpoint. Just as when others attack you personally for a reason unrelated to the viewpoint you express. But that's a page out of Trump's playbook, so what else can others expect?

I voted for Trump in the primary.

Back to the subject of my post and this thread (instead of a personal attack on me for expressing a dispassionate and reasoned view), I see nothing in those two articles citing instances where Ellison made anti-Semitic statements or did any anti-Semitic behavior. The second article doesn't even reference Ellison.

This looks like alt-righters trying to make an issue out of nothing, to cause trouble in their opponent's political party. The Democratic Party, the party that most Jews belong to, would not make its chair an anti-Semitic person.

I can see how not hating someone just for the heck of it would upset alt-righters, since hatred and anger are the main schtick of alt-righters. They don't understand tolerance and judging on an individual basis.

But as I say, I have no horse in that race. It is not my concern who they elect as their DNC chair. It doesn't matter what I think or you think.
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Lol, trying to make an issue out of nothing? The guy works defending a rabid anti-semite for over a decade, and it's no big deal? Oookay, whatever you say.

As for " Trump's Playbook", I voted for Cruz in the primaries. Also, you shouldn't be so darn sensitive. I wasn't attacking you, I was merely making an observation, based on your postings for the duration of the time I have been here. :shrug:
 
reinoe said:
The elites particularly enjoyed Perez' involvement with sabotaging Bernie Sander's campaign. I'm pretty sure if anything that's what will put him over the top.
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Well, looks like you are right on. Perez got himself the chair with Ellison being the co-chair. Ellison has been linked to the CAIR the Mo Bros terrorist partner. That pretty much ties the party of corruption to terrorists. I've always said the two most destructive groups in the US are leftists and radical muslims.
 
DamnYankee said:
Well, looks like you are right on. Perez got himself the chair with Ellison being the co-chair. Ellison has been linked to the CAIR the Mo Bros terrorist partner. That pretty much ties the party of corruption to terrorists. I've always said the two most destructive groups in the US are leftists and radical muslims.
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When it comes to radical muslims and leftists, I have trouble telling the difference...

Meet the terrorist behind the next women’s march | New York Post
 
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