After Flynn's Resignation Surveillance Defenders Suddenly Care About Wiretap Abuse

Re: After Flynn's Resignation Surveillance Defenders Suddenly Care About Wiretap Abus

rocket88 said:

So not Trump because he's perfect.

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Because of reality. It's a simple fact that General Flynn was illegally surveilled during Obama's watch. There's no disputing that.

Re: After Flynn's Resignation Surveillance Defenders Suddenly Care About Wiretap Abus

Winston said:

https://theintercept.com/2017/02/15...-defenders-suddenly-care-about-wiretap-abuse/



What's the republican position of the week on national security? I'm in a daze trying to keep up.

Edward Snowden's a traitor for exposing the massive surveillance state...

But, now we see outrage when it's turned against them..

Hey Rush Limbaugh, what's our position on wiretaps again? Okay.. Yep, Conditional on who they're wiretapping. If they're listening to someone with Muhammad in their name it's okay. But, if it's a Mike, we're against.. okay.. got it.

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Yep, it proves the old adage--outrage is entirely dependent upon whose ox is being gored.

Re: After Flynn's Resignation Surveillance Defenders Suddenly Care About Wiretap Abus

Winston said:

https://theintercept.com/2017/02/15...-defenders-suddenly-care-about-wiretap-abuse/



What's the republican position of the week on national security? I'm in a daze trying to keep up.

Edward Snowden's a traitor for exposing the massive surveillance state...

But, now we see outrage when it's turned against them..

Hey Rush Limbaugh, what's our position on wiretaps again? Okay.. Yep, Conditional on who they're wiretapping. If they're listening to someone with Muhammad in their name it's okay. But, if it's a Mike, we're against.. okay.. got it.

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Are you not aware of what Obama did right before he left office?

He expanded the power of Intelligence agencies on how they can collect personal information on Americans and share it.

The new rules significantly relax longstanding limits on what the N.S.A. may do with the information gathered by its most powerful surveillance operations, which are largely unregulated by American wiretapping laws. These include collecting satellite transmissions, phone calls and emails that cross network switches abroad, and messages between people abroad that cross domestic network switches.
The change means that far more officials will be searching through raw data. Essentially, the government is reducing the risk that the N.S.A. will fail to recognize that a piece of information would be valuable to another agency, but increasing the risk that officials will see private information about innocent people.
Attorney General Loretta E. Lynch signed the new rules, permitting the N.S.A. to disseminate “raw signals intelligence information,” on Jan. 3, after the director of national intelligence, James R. Clapper Jr., signed them on Dec. 15, according to a 23-page, largely declassified copy of the procedures.

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https://www.nytimes.com/2017/01/12/...cepted-communications.html?platform=hootsuite

Re: After Flynn's Resignation Surveillance Defenders Suddenly Care About Wiretap Abus

vesper said:

Are you not aware of what Obama did right before he left office?

He expanded the power of Intelligence agencies on how they can collect personal information on Americans and share it.




https://www.nytimes.com/2017/01/12/...cepted-communications.html?platform=hootsuite

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As I posted in another thread...
These leaks are hurting the country. First, it's been disclosed that we are tapping into the Russian ambassadors conversations. That being disclosed, in and of itself, is a severe security breach. Who authorized the disclosure of such high level information?

Second, I can't ever remember a prior administration sabotaging an incoming administration like this. The Obama administration illegally wiretapped the transition advisor to the President Elect, and it was made public after he became the NSA, in order to take him down. This does not look good.

This is starting to look worse and worse for the Democrats. I think this may backfire on them, and some of what they've done seems to be damaging to national security and our personal security as citizens. And this begs the question, what did Obama know about this and when did he know it?

Re: After Flynn's Resignation Surveillance Defenders Suddenly Care About Wiretap Abus

Winston said:

I'm still somewhat befuddled as to where the disclosure came from. Was it the FBI.. the NSA leaking info? Was it outside surveillance?

The Intercept suggests that Nunes is basically being a hypocrite and deflecting the curiosity into safe terrain for the Trump administration.

I read a far superior Reuters article just now..

U.S. lawmakers push for answers on Trump team's Russia ties | Reuters

I agree with the requirement that an independent, bipartisan committee should take over the investigation. Nunes committee is using smoke & mirrors to direct our attention outward. When we need to look inward.

I assert that the surveillance apparatus has been expanded and improved while our 4th am rights have been eroded, not because it keeps us safer by gathering Intel. It's in place to be "on hand" when they need to take someone down.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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You bet ... good catch ... and it's timely to mention it ...

In its final days, the Obama administration has expanded the power of the National Security Agency to share globally intercepted personal communications with the government’s 16 other intelligence agencies before applying privacy protections.
...
The change means that far more officials will be searching through raw data. Essentially, the government is reducing the risk that the N.S.A. will fail to recognize that a piece of information would be valuable to another agency, but increasing the risk that officials will see private information about innocent people.

Click to expand...

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/01/12/...cepted-communications.html?platform=hootsuite

Re: After Flynn's Resignation Surveillance Defenders Suddenly Care About Wiretap Abus

vesper said:

Are you not aware of what Obama did right before he left office?

He expanded the power of Intelligence agencies on how they can collect personal information on Americans and share it.




https://www.nytimes.com/2017/01/12/...cepted-communications.html?platform=hootsuite

Click to expand...

Looks like we had the same reaction ... excuse the dupe.

Re: After Flynn's Resignation Surveillance Defenders Suddenly Care About Wiretap Abus

Winston said:

https://theintercept.com/2017/02/15...-defenders-suddenly-care-about-wiretap-abuse/



What's the republican position of the week on national security? I'm in a daze trying to keep up.

Edward Snowden's a traitor for exposing the massive surveillance state...

But, now we see outrage when it's turned against them..

Hey Rush Limbaugh, what's our position on wiretaps again? Okay.. Yep, Conditional on who they're wiretapping. If they're listening to someone with Muhammad in their name it's okay. But, if it's a Mike, we're against.. okay.. got it.

Click to expand...

"Oh look!!! Here's a story that I can spin to try and make conservative look bad. Time to get to work!!!" [throws integrity, honesty and truth in a closet for the day]

Re: After Flynn's Resignation Surveillance Defenders Suddenly Care About Wiretap Abus

faithful_servant said:

"Oh look!!! Here's a story that I can spin to try and make conservative look bad. Time to get to work!!!" [throws integrity, honesty and truth in a closet for the day]

Click to expand...

I deserved that one. I saw an opening and went crashing in like the kool aid man.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Re: After Flynn's Resignation Surveillance Defenders Suddenly Care About Wiretap Abus

apdst said:

Because of reality. It's a simple fact that General Flynn was illegally surveilled during Obama's watch. There's no disputing that.

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Of course there is. Flynn was not directly surveilled. Russian Ambassador Sergey Kislyak's calls were being intercepted and some of those recordings included phone calls with Flynn.

Re: After Flynn's Resignation Surveillance Defenders Suddenly Care About Wiretap Abus

Napoleon said:

Of course there is. Flynn was not directly surveilled. Russian Ambassador Sergey Kislyak's calls were being intercepted and some of those recordings included phone calls with Flynn.

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He was illegally surveilled, indirect, or not.

Re: After Flynn's Resignation Surveillance Defenders Suddenly Care About Wiretap Abus

Winston said:

https://theintercept.com/2017/02/15...-defenders-suddenly-care-about-wiretap-abuse/



What's the republican position of the week on national security? I'm in a daze trying to keep up.

Edward Snowden's a traitor for exposing the massive surveillance state...

But, now we see outrage when it's turned against them..

Hey Rush Limbaugh, what's our position on wiretaps again? Okay.. Yep, Conditional on who they're wiretapping. If they're listening to someone with Muhammad in their name it's okay. But, if it's a Mike, we're against.. okay.. got it.

Click to expand...

It shouldn't be that hard to figure out what the concern is all about.

Revelations there is a shadow government committing felonies to divulge classified information should be a big red flag to everyone.

Re: After Flynn's Resignation Surveillance Defenders Suddenly Care About Wiretap Abus

Hawkeye10 said:

On the plus side now that we know that the elite have been illegally tapping the Rebellion the fact that transcripts of collusion with Putin have not shown up in the NYT's means that they dont exist.

I never doubted it but it is nice to have proof.

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That's not true. What is true is that Trump has not demanded that the transcripts be made public. IF no laws were broken by Flynn and others then there is virtually nothing to hide, is there? Yet, Trump is standing in the corner stomping his foot and screaming, (pick one):

Flynn resigned not because a law was broken but because it was an issue of trust. How many times did we hear that?

Flynn was forced to resign by "Fake media". (We heard Trump say that yesterday.)

Flynn was forced to resign because of leaks from the American IC.


What we have not heard from Trump: "Put the transcripts out there for the world to see. Flynn broke no law. There is nothing whatsoever to warrant concern. This is all a tempest in a teapot. The transcripts will prove I am right?'

Re: After Flynn's Resignation Surveillance Defenders Suddenly Care About Wiretap Abus

faithful_servant said:

"Oh look!!! Here's a story that I can spin to try and make conservative look bad. Time to get to work!!!" [throws integrity, honesty and truth in a closet for the day]

Click to expand...

Who's the conservative?

Re: After Flynn's Resignation Surveillance Defenders Suddenly Care About Wiretap Abus

Winston said:

https://theintercept.com/2017/02/15...-defenders-suddenly-care-about-wiretap-abuse/



What's the republican position of the week on national security? I'm in a daze trying to keep up.

Edward Snowden's a traitor for exposing the massive surveillance state...

But, now we see outrage when it's turned against them..

Hey Rush Limbaugh, what's our position on wiretaps again? Okay.. Yep, Conditional on who they're wiretapping. If they're listening to someone with Muhammad in their name it's okay. But, if it's a Mike, we're against.. okay.. got it.

Click to expand...

So wait.... snowden exposes a massive unconstitutional wire tapping network by the NSA

Obama was against it before he was for it.

It was supposed to be metadata only and only of foreign nationals.

That was the law.

so now you have the deep state illegally leaking information on American citizens of actual voice recordings and your concern is how rush limbaugh thinks about it (without any citing or quotes of course)...

You have obama late term quietly expanding the program so that more agencies have access to the raw data (creating a deniability of leaks for the nsa, convienent, eh?)

Am I reading you right?


glass houses and stones man.

Re: After Flynn's Resignation Surveillance Defenders Suddenly Care About Wiretap Abus

VanceMack said:

Sorry...I dont know which 'conservatives' you are hanging out with. Most conservatives I know are death on federal intrusions into personal privacy. You sure you arent spouting rhetoric? Seriously...NONE of the conservatives I know think the government intrusions into US citizens lives was a good thing.

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Unless the US citizen has a uterus, or is LGBT or is a Muslim. Shall we continue?

Re: After Flynn's Resignation Surveillance Defenders Suddenly Care About Wiretap Abus

Risky Thicket said:

Unless the US citizen has a uterus, or is LGBT or is a Muslim. Shall we continue?

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I dont care if a woman has a uterus. Many people object to her butchering an unborn child...perhaps that isnt the same thing as being concerned about her having a uterus...huh? I dont care that people are LGBT and most I know dont either. They do find it rather comical, odd...even wrong that people think that with all we know about science procreation evolution, furthering of the species, etc that some people think man/man woman/woman is NOT some form of deviation to the norm, that 0% of such couples can ever procreate, that an extraordinarily small percentage of the US population (male homosexuals) make up such an extraordinarily high percentage of HIV/AIDS 'victims' and that there is this continued inane push to allow people to claim they are unicorns if they really really really really BELIEVE they are unicorns. BUT...the only level of concern I see expressed is when there is a move to change the laws. On THAT topic...yes...some people have differing opinions. SHockingly...many liberals and democrats do as well. Oh...but that doesnt fit your ridiculous narrative...does it? And as for Muslims...again...we just had a rat president that spent 8 years targeting 'Muslims' through drone attacks, passed several executive orders targeting Muslim refugees, and specifically cited 7 Muslim nations as having both a high risk of terrorist threat AND having governments unwilling or incapable of cooperating in vetting processes. And you didnt say **** about rats hating Muslims. Frankly...I dont know a ton of conservatives that are opposed to ALL Muslims or that even care about Muslims in general. Sure...there is some concern about their dependence and reliance on Sharia law. Yes...there is a bit of concern about their human rights abuses and their treatment of women and homosexuals (which is interesting because liberals often tend to pretend to care about such concerns as well). MOST conservatives I know understand the difference between a 'Muslim' and an extremist fundamentalist Muslim.

Yes...by all means...LETS continue.

Re: After Flynn's Resignation Surveillance Defenders Suddenly Care About Wiretap Abus

Napoleon said:

Of course there is. Flynn was not directly surveilled. Russian Ambassador Sergey Kislyak's calls were being intercepted and some of those recordings included phone calls with Flynn.

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Also, it has been reported by Newsweek that foreign intelligence, including one Baltic country, began monitoring Trump's people including Flynn when they had contacts with Russia. In some cases it is reported the foreign intel conducted physical surveillance of Flynn and others when they were in Europe and Russia.

Foreign nations, our allies, became concerned before Trump was nominated reportedly because of Trump's business history with Russia crime lords and the number of people on Trump's team who had/have deep connections to Russia/Putin. Also they were concerned about Trump's obvious public lean toward Russia.

For sometime, apparently and understandably, these foreign intel agencies were reluctant to share the information with the United States. It seems they ultimately did share some of the information with the US IC. It could well be that the Flynn information could have come from outside the US.

Re: After Flynn's Resignation Surveillance Defenders Suddenly Care About Wiretap Abus

Just thought this would be helpful.

Re: After Flynn's Resignation Surveillance Defenders Suddenly Care About Wiretap Abus

Risky Thicket said:

That's not true. What is true is that Trump has not demanded that the transcripts be made public. IF no laws were broken by Flynn and others then there is virtually nothing to hide, is there? Yet, Trump is standing in the corner stomping his foot and screaming, (pick one):

Flynn resigned not because a law was broken but because it was an issue of trust. How many times did we hear that?

Flynn was forced to resign by "Fake media". (We heard Trump say that yesterday.)

Flynn was forced to resign because of leaks from the American IC.


What we have not heard from Trump: "Put the transcripts out there for the world to see. Flynn broke no law. There is nothing whatsoever to warrant concern. This is all a tempest in a teapot. The transcripts will prove I am right?'

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Oh I think there is something to hide.

It is Trump trying to get a deal done with Putin.

There is no deal, mostly I think because the elite scuttled it by attacking Americas President.

Re: After Flynn's Resignation Surveillance Defenders Suddenly Care About Wiretap Abus

Risky Thicket said:

Also, it has been reported by Newsweek that foreign intelligence, including one Baltic country, began monitoring Trump's people including Flynn when they had contacts with Russia. In some cases it is reported the foreign intel conducted physical surveillance of Flynn and others when they were in Europe and Russia.

Foreign nations, our allies, became concerned before Trump was nominated reportedly because of Trump's business history with Russia crime lords and the number of people on Trump's team who had/have deep connections to Russia/Putin. Also they were concerned about Trump's obvious public lean toward Russia.

For sometime, apparently and understandably, these foreign intel agencies were reluctant to share the information with the United States. It seems they ultimately did share some of the information with the US IC. It could well be that the Flynn information could have come from outside the US.

Click to expand...

If that were the case, then why did NYT say it came from the FBI?

Re: After Flynn's Resignation Surveillance Defenders Suddenly Care About Wiretap Abus

Risky Thicket said:

Also, it has been reported by Newsweek that foreign intelligence, including one Baltic country, began monitoring Trump's people including Flynn when they had contacts with Russia. In some cases it is reported the foreign intel conducted physical surveillance of Flynn and others when they were in Europe and Russia.

Foreign nations, our allies, became concerned before Trump was nominated reportedly because of Trump's business history with Russia crime lords and the number of people on Trump's team who had/have deep connections to Russia/Putin. Also they were concerned about Trump's obvious public lean toward Russia.

For sometime, apparently and understandably, these foreign intel agencies were reluctant to share the information with the United States. It seems they ultimately did share some of the information with the US IC. It could well be that the Flynn information could have come from outside the US.

Click to expand...

Unless it was a foreign government who gave it to the Press that highly unlikely chain of event happening matters little.

Re: After Flynn's Resignation Surveillance Defenders Suddenly Care About Wiretap Abus

apdst said:

Because of reality. It's a simple fact that General Flynn was illegally surveilled during Obama's watch. There's no disputing that.

Click to expand...

You won't answer a simple question. Is Trump abusing these powers or not?

Re: After Flynn's Resignation Surveillance Defenders Suddenly Care About Wiretap Abus

rocket88 said:

You won't answer a simple question. Is Trump abusing these powers or not?

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You just now asked a question. My answer is, not that I know of. We know Obama did.

Re: After Flynn's Resignation Surveillance Defenders Suddenly Care About Wiretap Abus

Winston said:

https://theintercept.com/2017/02/15...-defenders-suddenly-care-about-wiretap-abuse/ What's the republican position of the week on national security? I'm in a daze trying to keep up. Edward Snowden's a traitor for exposing the massive surveillance state... But, now we see outrage when it's turned against them.. Hey Rush Limbaugh, what's our position on wiretaps again? Okay.. Yep, Conditional on who they're wiretapping. If they're listening to someone with Muhammad in their name it's okay. But, if it's a Mike, we're against.. okay.. got it.

Click to expand...

One may also point out that leaks were awesome as long as they made Hillary (or Democrats in general) look bad....

......or that flip-flopping was bad until they ran a candidate who manages to do it once every five sentences or thereabouts...

.....or that nasty name-calling was bad until they ran a candidate who uses it as the first line of defense-offense whenever criticized...

....or that lots of executive orders was bad until they ran a candidate who sat down and signed 45 of them (granted, most of which didn't actually mandate any significant change, but then it appears quantity comes before quality)...

....or that intelligence services were to be trusted and relied upon, until those services said something negative about their candidate....

.....or that witch hunts were fine (seven Benghazi investigations, which uncovered only a negligent use of an email server - not even the investigations' point to begin with) until the Hated Media reports negative facts about their candidate (now called a "witch hunt")....

...and on and on and on and on and on.




They got binders full of BS.

Re: After Flynn's Resignation Surveillance Defenders Suddenly Care About Wiretap Abus

Mr Person said:

One may also point out that leaks were awesome as long as they made Hillary (or Democrats in general) look bad....

......or that flip-flopping was bad until they ran a candidate who manages to do it once every five sentences or thereabouts...

.....or that nasty name-calling was bad until they ran a candidate who uses it as the first line of defense-offense whenever criticized...

....or that lots of executive orders was bad until they ran a candidate who sat down and signed 45 of them (granted, most of which didn't actually mandate any significant change, but then it appears quantity comes before quality)...

....or that intelligence services were to be trusted and relied upon, until those services said something negative about their candidate....

.....or that witch hunts were fine (seven Benghazi investigations, which uncovered only a negligent use of an email server - not even the investigations' point to begin with) until the Hated Media reports negative facts about their candidate (now called a "witch hunt")....

...and on and on and on and on and on.




They got binders full of BS.

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The worst hypocrisy is that deficits are bad when a democrat wants to spend money on society. But, deficits are good when a republican wants to pass tax cuts to stuff the pockets of the rich.