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Democrats Are Losing Their War With Trump

haymarket said:
No - I enjoy exposing right wing falsehoods and that has nothing to do with the results of any election.
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Actually it was the republicans who lost to trump first, all 16 of them.

And all because he was 'a plurality' candidate in a party with mostly winner-take-all primaries.

Different from the DEMs, where all primaries were proportional .
 
haymarket said:
In the end, Clinton, for all her faults, did get more votes than Bernie did. I dearly wish that were NOT so - but it was.
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As long as the overwhelmingly huge portion of Bernie voters continue to sulk about Clinton, and continue to foolishly push Ellison as DNC chair, they will miss an opportunity to make a comeback in 2018, except in the Senate of course, where all they can do is minimize damage .
 
haymarket said:
What does this have to do with the topic of the thread?

There is no doubt that the DNC tipped t he scales in favor of Clinton. There is not doubt the super delegate formula gave here an advantage.

Does that equal your coronation? I don't think it rises to that.
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Are Democratic leaning voters still falling into the alt-right con trap of divide and conquer?

It's as if Democrats have learned nothing of these Nixon tactics since 1968 .
 
NIMBY said:
Are Democratic leaning voters still falling into the alt-right con trap of divide and conquer?

It's as if Democrats have learned nothing of these Nixon tactics since 1968 .
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What is our solution?
 
haymarket said:
What is our solution?
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Start by seating a complete DNC staff that will make an attempt to present itself in states that it has lost since 2010. Since the battle between Perez and Ellison is a proxy war between Bernie and Hillary factions, choose my favorite Mayor Buttigieg of South Bend and make the other two deputies. Btw, the RNC is already stocked.

Second, the GOP has its annual CPAC next weekend. What do DEMs have to counter it--nothing right now! Appeal to the currently activated base and have a Return to the Progressive and Populist Era themes from a century ago.

I'm still pissed the DNC leftovers aren't fielding a candidate for the empty Georgia house seat left open by Price joining the cabinet .
 
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NIMBY said:
Start by seating a complete DNC staff that will make an attempt to present itself in states that it has lost since 2010. Since the battle between Perez and Ellison is a proxy war between Bernie and Hillary factions, choose my favorite Mayor Buttigieg of South Bend and make the other two deputies. Btw, the RNC is already stocked.

Second, the GOP has its annual CPAC next weekend. What do DEMs have to counter it--nothing right now! Appeal to the currently activated base and have a Return to the Progressive and Populist Era themes from a century ago.

I'm still pissed the DNC leftovers aren't fielding a candidate for the empty Georgia house seat left open by Price joining the cabinet .
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I hope you're involved in your local democratic party.
 
haymarket said:
In the end, Clinton, for all her faults, did get more votes than Bernie did. I dearly wish that were NOT so - but it was.
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The only reason that was was because the system was rigged from primary one. Earlier on there were states where Bernie either won or did just as good vote wise and yet didn't get as many electoral votes as Clinton, sometimes a lot less. Once the electoral votes started piling up for Hillary and it became obvious that Clinton would win, both the popular votes and the electoral votes started going toward her in a snowball. This doesn't even take into account the DNC rigging the debates and passing on questions to Hillary in advance or planting a mole in the Sanders camp, giving DWS the opening to deny Bernie the database for a while. The only reason he was reconnected with that database is when he filed suit.
 
Moderate Right said:
The only reason that was was because the system was rigged from primary one. Earlier on there were states where Bernie either won or did just as good vote wise and yet didn't get as many electoral votes as Clinton, sometimes a lot less. Once the electoral votes started piling up for Hillary and it became obvious that Clinton would win, both the popular votes and the electoral votes started going toward her in a snowball. This doesn't even take into account the DNC rigging the debates and passing on questions to Hillary in advance or planting a mole in the Sanders camp, giving DWS the opening to deny Bernie the database for a while. The only reason he was reconnected with that database is when he filed suit.
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I think you men delegates that than electoral votes.... right?
 
JackA said:
The solution begins not at the increasingly irrelevant DNC but at the grass roots, and is well underway. Watch it. Better, join it.
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Going to a local meeting tonight.
 
haymarket said:
Why can't you deal with what I said rather than your own straw man that has been shown to be ridiculous?
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Roughly 500 super delegate votes to Hillary before the first primary voter entered a voting booth is a coronation if anything is. Your party has become a joke.
 
haymarket said:
In the end, Clinton, for all her faults, did get more votes than Bernie did. I dearly wish that were NOT so - but it was.
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That does excuse the coronation. It's hard to lose your party's nomination when you are given a 500 delegate head start. On top of that, the as the WikiLeaks releases point out, the DNC was working against Bernie in other ways as well.
 
ObamacareFail said:
Roughly 500 super delegate votes to Hillary before the first primary voter entered a voting booth is a coronation if anything is. Your party has become a joke.
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When I was a Democratic delegate to the national convention in 1972 there were no super delegates. They need to return to that.
 
haymarket said:
When I was a Democratic delegate to the national convention in 1972 there were no super delegates. They need to return to that.
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I agree. Your party is a sick joke until that happens.
 
haymarket said:
So what are you complaining about then?
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Intended to say..."That does not excuse the coronation." Actual primary votes lose relevance when one candidate starts out with a 500 delegate lead before the first primary vote is taken.
 
ObamacareFail said:
Intended to say..."That does not excuse the coronation." Actual primary votes lose relevance when one candidate starts out with a 500 delegate lead before the first primary vote is taken.
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What you do not know about Democratic Party rules and politics could fill a library. Had Sanders defeated Clinton by several million votes in the primaries and had the national polls demonstrated he was the big choice of the party and the best person to win the White House - many of those 500 you keep talking about would have been glad to switch and support him. But that did not happen so they stuck with their first inclination - Clinton.
 
haymarket said:
What you do not know about Democratic Party rules and politics could fill a library. Had Sanders defeated Clinton by several million votes in the primaries and had the national polls demonstrated he was the big choice of the party and the best person to win the White House - many of those 500 you keep talking about would have been glad to switch and support him. But that did not happen so they stuck with their first inclination - Clinton.
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But it gave her an unfair advantage right out of the gate, not to mention the DNC shenanigans, which were confirmed by the hacks. Hell, we didn't even need hacks to see DWS prohibiting Bernie from using the database. He had to sue to regain access.
 
Moderate Right said:
But it gave her an unfair advantage right out of the gate, not to mention the DNC shenanigans, which were confirmed by the hacks. Hell, we didn't even need hacks to see DWS prohibiting Bernie from using the database. He had to sue to regain access.
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Hopefully, the lessons will be learned and corrections made.
 
haymarket said:
Hopefully, the lessons will be learned and corrections made.
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I'm actually a moderate and vote for both parties. I voted for Obama last time around because I thought he did OK his first four years. I was very unhappy with his last four years in obstructing the Republicans. The left has a lot of lessons to learn but if they bury their heads in the sand saying that they won the popular vote and that Comey or the Russians are the only reason they lost the White House then they are in trouble. Trump tapped into a large segment of society that was unhappy with the Democrats and the left is going to have to change in some ways if they want to return to relevancy. Both sides make the mistake of thinking that whenever they lose the only reason they lost is because they didn't get the vote out and don't have to change anything other than that.
 
Moderate Right said:
I'm actually a moderate and vote for both parties. I voted for Obama last time around because I thought he did OK his first four years. I was very unhappy with his last four years in obstructing the Republicans. The left has a lot of lessons to learn but if they bury their heads in the sand saying that they won the popular vote and that Comey or the Russians are the only reason they lost the White House then they are in trouble. Trump tapped into a large segment of society that was unhappy with the Democrats and the left is going to have to change in some ways if they want to return to relevancy. Both sides make the mistake of thinking that whenever they lose the only reason they lost is because they didn't get the vote out and don't have to change anything other than that.
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I really don't think there are many democrats who believe the only reason they lost the EC is because of the Russians or Comey. Most offs are well aware of the limitations of Clinton, her flaws and her limitations in campaigning. But I do think that the vast majority of Democrats - especially those who followed the campaign - believe that both had an effect on the elections and played a role to the disadvantage of Clinton.
 
haymarket said:
I really don't think there are many democrats who believe the only reason they lost the EC is because of the Russians or Comey. Most offs are well aware of the limitations of Clinton, her flaws and her limitations in campaigning. But I do think that the vast majority of Democrats - especially those who followed the campaign - believe that both had an effect on the elections and played a role to the disadvantage of Clinton.
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The thing is they need to learn to be tolerant of the right and not call them names. If they can't find a way to tolerate religious beliefs of others and calling them names then they are going to continue going down the same path. Clinton ran on a campaign theme of "Stronger Together" but she defined "together" as only those who share Democratic and liberal views and no one else.

I gave a good example of this to someone else in another post. Here in my state of Kentucky, Kim Davis, the county clerk who would not give marriage licenses to gay people because her name was on the certificate, was put in jail and tarred and feathered by the left and they enjoyed cramming their liberal values up her ass. When a new Republican governor was elected, he found a way to please both sides by just removing county clerk's names from the certificate and now Kim Davis is still county clerk and her office issues marriage licenses to gays, not because of a court order, but because her name is no longer on them. The left can find ways to tolerate the right but they would rather cram their values up the right's asses and call them names. Hence, one reason why Trump is president partly due to intolerance of the left.
 
haymarket said:
What you do not know about Democratic Party rules and politics could fill a library. Had Sanders defeated Clinton by several million votes in the primaries and had the national polls demonstrated he was the big choice of the party and the best person to win the White House - many of those 500 you keep talking about would have been glad to switch and support him. But that did not happen so they stuck with their first inclination - Clinton.
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Give me a break! A 500 delegate lead is a very substantive head start. It puts a lot of wind in your sails. It's hard to defeat that kind of momentum.
 
haymarket said:
Hopefully, the lessons will be learned and corrections made.
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If I were a democrat, I would certainly hope so, considering that the super delegate system has made the party a joke. And chances are, the WikiLeaks information that you are still fantasizing a scenario involving Russia, simply came from DNC insiders who were Sanders supporters that were pissed at how he was treated.
 
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