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Trump Trumped Up Again

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Brischera

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Kelly Conway vowed to present the scientific data justifying Trumps strategy on illegal immigration. She reminded us that was a main focus in his campaign announcement speech and how dismal border security floods the US with murderers and rapists.

The rift comes from Trump claiming a wall on the southern border is the best and only way to stop illegal immigration. He is so confident in that strategy he issued an Executive Order banning immigrants from seven different nations in the Middle East.

He was asked why he would build a wall on the Southern border, at great sacrifices from every corner if the Executive Order banning immigrants from seven, not just ONE, but seven nations prevented illegal immigration?

Why doesnt he just issue an Immigration ban on Mexico to stop illegals?
 
Brischera said:
Kelly Conway vowed to present the scientific data justifying Trumps strategy on illegal immigration. She reminded us that was a main focus in his campaign announcement speech and how dismal border security floods the US with murderers and rapists.

The rift comes from Trump claiming a wall on the southern border is the best and only way to stop illegal immigration. He is so confident in that strategy he issued an Executive Order banning immigrants from seven different nations in the Middle East.

He was asked why he would build a wall on the Southern border, at great sacrifices from every corner if the Executive Order banning immigrants from seven, not just ONE, but seven nations prevented illegal immigration?

Why doesnt he just issue an Immigration ban on Mexico to stop illegals?
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I think you are conflating border security against illegal entry with national security against threat of potential terrorism.
 
Gaugingcatenate said:
I think you are conflating border security against illegal entry with national security against threat of potential terrorism.
Click to expand...

Let's say the ban is in effect and terrorist is plotting for mass murder. How could the ban possibly stop him when he knows he cant get into the US through Mexican. Also, border security IS national security.
 
Brischera said:
Let's say the ban is in effect and terrorist is plotting for mass murder. How could the ban possibly stop him when he knows he cant get into the US through Mexican. Also, border security IS national security.
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All this security IS national security, but one is primarily against illegal immigration and the other primarily against potential terrorism.

If the wall is secured on the southern border, that is more of a disruption of your plot scenario than under the O bomb do nothing plan, right?
 
Gaugingcatenate said:
All this security IS national security, but one is primarily against illegal immigration and the other primarily against potential terrorism.

If the wall is secured on the southern border, that is more of a disruption of your plot scenario than under the O bomb do nothing plan, right?
Click to expand...

You know for a fact that right now there is no wall so please help me understand how banning 7 nations right now stops illegals from 7 nations.

Last time for repeating this question:

How could the ban possibly stop a terrorist from Syria when he knows he can get into the US through Mexico. And again, if the ban stops illegals then why hasnt he added Mexico to the Executive Order?
 
Brischera said:
You know for a fact that right now there is no wall so please help me understand how banning 7 nations right now stops illegals from 7 nations.

Last time for repeating this question:

How could the ban possibly stop a terrorist from Syria when he knows he can get into the US through Mexico. And again, if the ban stops illegals then why hasnt he added Mexico to the Executive Order?
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Patience is not in my quiver.

Why is there no wall? Is that Trump's fault? Or did you expect him to already have it completed by his third week in office?

Both questions do not meet the sniff test, but this latter one is just, well, I am not allowed to say here but a semi intelligent person could probably guess the gist. But I will answer it anyhow by leading you to the answers. No, its not multiple choice, you have to arrive at said answers through your own devices.

Do any of the banned countries share a border with the US? Was Mexico deemed a country by the O bomb administration as having a previously identified link to terrorist activity? Then you can revert back to the question of why, in his 8 years in office, didn't the O bomb build this wall to give us better national security.

If we only had the wall, eh?
 
Brischera said:
Kelly Conway vowed to present the scientific data justifying Trumps strategy on illegal immigration. She reminded us that was a main focus in his campaign announcement speech and how dismal border security floods the US with murderers and rapists.

The rift comes from Trump claiming a wall on the southern border is the best and only way to stop illegal immigration. He is so confident in that strategy he issued an Executive Order banning immigrants from seven different nations in the Middle East.

He was asked why he would build a wall on the Southern border, at great sacrifices from every corner if the Executive Order banning immigrants from seven, not just ONE, but seven nations prevented illegal immigration?

Why doesnt he just issue an Immigration ban on Mexico to stop illegals?
Click to expand...

Illegal immigration is already banned....by legislative law. They come in illegally.

The travel (Muslim) ban was to ban legal immigration and travel.
 
JumpinJack said:
Illegal immigration is already banned....by legislative law. They come in illegally.

The travel (Muslim) ban was to ban legal immigration and travel.
Click to expand...

There are two types of illegal immigration:

1 Someone entering without a visa (Mexico)

2 Someone with a valid visa while intending to do harm. (syrian terrorist)

Also, the border is so weak there terrorist could enter from mexico.
 
Brischera said:
There are two types of illegal immigration:

1 Someone entering without a visa (Mexico)

2 Someone with a valid visa while intending to do harm. (syrian terrorist)

Also, the border is so weak there terrorist could enter from mexico.
Click to expand...

Terrorists can always come in. There is no way to stop that entirely, since we don't have a dictatorship who shoots people who aren't supposed to be here. That is part of the cost of having a free society, unfortunately.

However, most of the terrorists so far have been Americans, so I think that's a much bigger concern. Most of them have been young white male Americans. A very few have been Muslim Americans. Then there was one old white American male in Lafayette, LA, who did a mass killing at a theater. I think the homegrown terrorism is much more serious.
 
Gaugingcatenate said:
All this security IS national security, but one is primarily against illegal immigration and the other primarily against potential terrorism.

If the wall is secured on the southern border, that is more of a disruption of your plot scenario than under the O bomb do nothing plan, right?
Click to expand...

Your kidding! Are you trying to make a false dilemma fallacy? Either build a wall or do nothing is the options available?

There are more intelligent options available than either build a wall or do nothing.
 
JumpinJack said:
Terrorists can always come in. There is no way to stop that entirely, since we don't have a dictatorship who shoots people who aren't supposed to be here. That is part of the cost of having a free society, unfortunately.

However, most of the terrorists so far have been Americans, so I think that's a much bigger concern. Most of them have been young white male Americans. A very few have been Muslim Americans. Then there was one old white American male in Lafayette, LA, who did a mass killing at a theater. I think the homegrown terrorism is much more serious.
Click to expand...

Shhhhhhhh, you're ruining the sense of Security Theater!
 
Gaugingcatenate said:
All this security IS national security, but one is primarily against illegal immigration and the other primarily against potential terrorism.

If the wall is secured on the southern border, that is more of a disruption of your plot scenario than under the O bomb do nothing plan, right?
Click to expand...

Potential terrorism? Why then doesn't it include countries where have actually come to the US from? Two of the San Bernardino perps were from Russia and one of the Boston Marathon bombers was born in the USSR, the other in a newly-independent Caucasus republic. Not to mention all the Saudi Arabians and Pakistani's. If the intention is to head off terrorists from getting into the US, wouldn't you start with countries like them? Yemen? Does anyone in Yemen even know where the US is on a map?
 
soylentgreen said:
Your kidding! Are you trying to make a false dilemma fallacy? Either build a wall or do nothing is the options available?

There are more intelligent options available than either build a wall or do nothing.
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I explained it simply already.

Your boy did neither, and his only other exercised option was to invite in more potential threats... yeah, not so intelligent.
 
Gaugingcatenate said:
I explained it simply already.

Your boy did neither, and his only other exercised option was to invite in more potential threats... yeah, not so intelligent.
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Not my boy and i have no interest in either side of the politics in america only the bad way each side does its business.
There are far more reasonable responses to illegal workers in america. That neither side wishes to implement them or as in the case so often in america partisan politics stops any real progress being made on the problem. As to the drugs and other criminal activities it is simply a case of if they build a better mouse trap then build a better mouse. The wall will not stop the illegal spread of drugs or from criminals passing through as it is their business to get around such inconveniences.

If you are putting the wall up as a measure to stop the trafficking of illegal workers then your wall is nothing more than a bad and expensive solution that has a low probability of working. Because it does nothing to effect the fact that business people do want to hire cheap and illegal labour and under americas complicated and stupid taxing system is easily done. You need to change your labour laws so that thieving business men cannot take advantage and exploit workers. Not try to ban people from working.
 
Grand Mal said:
Potential terrorism? Why then doesn't it include countries where have actually come to the US from? Two of the San Bernardino perps were from Russia and one of the Boston Marathon bombers was born in the USSR, the other in a newly-independent Caucasus republic. Not to mention all the Saudi Arabians and Pakistani's. If the intention is to head off terrorists from getting into the US, wouldn't you start with countries like them? Yemen? Does anyone in Yemen even know where the US is on a map?
Click to expand...
As I am sure you are aware if you keep up with such things, those 7 were already identified by the O bomb administration as areas of the world where we need to be on heightened alert. Nobody had a problem with the black guy doing it, this just seems spawned by reverse racism.

Just kidding, but that is the kind of silly stuff we have been weathering for the last 8 plus years. Over and over and nauseatingly over again. However, these ARE the countries the O bomb people said to watch out for, so it should not EVEN get a second glance, should just be done and without a whimper or whine. I know I know, impossible, the truth is always impossible from the left. Were the O bomb still in office you would hear applause from your side, although since he was an outed closet Muslophile, he could never ever bring himself to use the words Islamic terrorism, no matter what the context.

The rest will come, don't worry, don't worry. We will be properly vetting or excluding all the others that might bring us harm as well.

As to Yemen and their schooling in the subject of geography, I have no answer to this question.
 
soylentgreen said:
Not my boy and i have no interest in either side of the politics in america only the bad way each side does its business.
There are far more reasonable responses to illegal workers in america. That neither side wishes to implement them or as in the case so often in america partisan politics stops any real progress being made on the problem. As to the drugs and other criminal activities it is simply a case of if they build a better mouse trap then build a better mouse. The wall will not stop the illegal spread of drugs or from criminals passing through as it is their business to get around such inconveniences.

If you are putting the wall up as a measure to stop the trafficking of illegal workers then your wall is nothing more than a bad and expensive solution that has a low probability of working. Because it does nothing to effect the fact that business people do want to hire cheap and illegal labour and under americas complicated and stupid taxing system is easily done. You need to change your labour laws so that thieving business men cannot take advantage and exploit workers. Not try to ban people from working.
Click to expand...
Please, do go ahead and run for office if you have all the solutions. We vote for the people we think will do the best job over here. And we voted in Trump this last election, so we will go with his plan rather than yours this time.

Based on your assessment, one should never have any defense. Why brush your teeth, germs, decay and plaque are always there waiting to get in and brushing never is the 100% solution to all your dentistry problems, eh? We put locks on doors, we put doors on houses and we put fences in yards all to allow in those that we want, and only those, and exclude those that we don't want. Is it ever 100% effective? No, but does that mean we just leave our doors and windows unlocked... or should we have some sort of deterrence to stop the unwanted?

Besides the wall was already approved. What you are asking us to do will require further legislation... all of which we will no doubt debate and then formulate a plan to defend our country. Simple.

We say we should. Folks where you live can make their own choices. Israel has had pretty decent success with their wall, last i heard.
 
Gaugingcatenate said:
Please, do go ahead and run for office if you have all the solutions. We vote for the people we think will do the best job over here. And we voted in Trump this last election, so we will go with his plan rather than yours this time.
Click to expand...

Hyperbole now. Your not getting any better. Pointing out that the solution of a wall solves nothing while in fact there are better ways does not give you any ability to return with a silly claim that all solutions are available now.

Based on your assessment, one should never have any defense.
Click to expand...
I neither implied or stated outright that such was the case. This is your assumption, own it.
Why brush your teeth, germs, decay and plaque are always there waiting to get in and brushing never is the 100% solution to all your dentistry problems, eh? We put locks on doors, we put doors on houses and we put fences in yards all to allow in those that we want, and only those, and exclude those that we don't want. Is it ever 100% effective? No, but does that mean we just leave our doors and windows unlocked... or should we have some sort of deterrence to stop the unwanted?
Click to expand...
Nor does building a brick wall around your teeth help either.

Besides the wall was already approved. What you are asking us to do will require further legislation... all of which we will no doubt debate and then formulate a plan to defend our country. Simple.

We say we should. Folks where you live can make their own choices. Israel has had pretty decent success with their wall, last i heard.
Click to expand...
China also built a wall to keep out the mongol hordes and then spent the next thousand odd years living under mongol rule. Israel still comes under terrorist attack so what wall has worked for them? Walls do not work.
 
JumpinJack said:
Illegal immigration is already banned....by legislative law. They come in illegally.
The travel (Muslim) ban was to ban legal immigration and travel.
Click to expand...

Immigration is not a Right. It is a privilege. The President specifically is empowered to halt immigration for any reason he deems justified or necessary. THAT is the LAW.
Holding a Visa does no preclude his authority. The "So-Called" judges in liberal land got it wrong because they legislate from the bench and operate solely on political agenda instead of doing their jobs.
 
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JumpinJack said:
Terrorists can always come in. There is no way to stop that entirely, since we don't have a dictatorship who shoots people who aren't supposed to be here. That is part of the cost of having a free society, unfortunately.

However, most of the terrorists so far have been Americans, so I think that's a much bigger concern. Most of them have been young white male Americans. A very few have been Muslim Americans. Then there was one old white American male in Lafayette, LA, who did a mass killing at a theater. I think the homegrown terrorism is much more serious.
Click to expand...

You're confusing terrorism with mental illness. Anyone who would dress up like batman and kill people for no cause is mentally ill. Terrorists have a cause....but have yet to dress up like Batman.
 
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NoLeftNoRight said:
Immigration is not a Right. It is a privilege. The President specifically is empowered to halt immigration for any reason he deems justified or necessary. THAT is the LAW.
Holding a Visa does no preclude his authority. The "So-Called" judges in liberal land got it wrong because they legislate from the bench and operate solely on political agenda instead of doing their jobs.
Click to expand...


Your statement has nothing to do with my post. In any case, I thought everyone knew that the judge that issued the temp injunction on the EO is a conservative judge, appointed by Bush.

It is part of our Constitution, I believe, that the country cannot discriminate based on religion. No EO can override that. Trump's team had tried to do the EO so as to get by that restriction, but apparently, the judiciary sees that it is a Muslim ban, which is illegal in our country. Maybe if they rework the EO, it'll get past the law.

The tricky thing is that...whether it says it's a Muslim ban or not, if the impact is against one religion, then that's the effect of the ban and is illegal. And of course we all know it's a Muslim ban. Trump's been shouting that from the rooftops for a year or more. Then Giuliani said on national tv that Trump asked him to do a Muslim ban EO draft/procedure to get around the law, and Giuliani was proud to say that he had done that.

The thing is...you either ban travel from an entire area or you don't...even for Christians. Or you have to have special intel for specific group of people, which is okay even if that group is a particular religion.
 
NoLeftNoRight said:
You're confusing terrorism with mental illness. Anyone who would dress up like batman and kill people for no cause is mentally ill. Terrorists have a cause....but have yet to dress up like Batman.
Click to expand...

I'm not going to argue about it. Anyone who goes into a theater and kills innocent people is a domestic terrorist, particularly for a cause.

The Muslim terrorist acts we've had have been by American Muslims, except for 9/11.

We can't look into the minds of killers to see if they have mental issues or not, terrorist or not. Some would say that anyone who would do such evil things has a mental issue, even an immigrant terrorist.

The fact is that when I walk out the door, there is a far greater chance that I'll get murdered by an American than by an immigrant terrorist.

Violence by Americans, and computer hacking terrorism, are of more concern, in my view. Are we continuing to investigate the Russian hacking to get to the bottom of that? How did they do that? What all did they do? I don't suppose that info will ever be released because of security.
 
soylentgreen said:
Hyperbole now. Your not getting any better. Pointing out that the solution of a wall solves nothing while in fact there are better ways does not give you any ability to return with a silly claim that all solutions are available now.


I neither implied or stated outright that such was the case. This is your assumption, own it.

Nor does building a brick wall around your teeth help either.


China also built a wall to keep out the mongol hordes and then spent the next thousand odd years living under mongol rule. Israel still comes under terrorist attack so what wall has worked for them? Walls do not work.
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Your simplistic, not even solutions but just a nod in the direction, allusions to idea that there better answers "out there", opinions are noted and will post haste be forgotten.

I proudly own everything I say...unless it is in quotes or paraphrased, so what is your point?

Now hold on there hoss, if you build a brick wall around your teeth, it most certainly could help fend off terrorists and illegal aliens from your teeth, undeniable.

Nothing is 100% failure except just plain giving up, which is what you pretty much advocate. I guess we all should practice throwing up our hands and saying , "We surrender" in proper appeaser form. Maybe work on your French accent, might make it seem more plausible.
 
Gaugingcatenate said:
Your simplistic, not even solutions but just a nod in the direction, allusions to idea that there better answers "out there", opinions are noted and will post haste be forgotten.

I proudly own everything I say...unless it is in quotes or paraphrased, so what is your point?

Now hold on there hoss, if you build a brick wall around your teeth, it most certainly could help fend off terrorists and illegal aliens from your teeth, undeniable.

Nothing is 100% failure except just plain giving up, which is what you pretty much advocate. I guess we all should practice throwing up our hands and saying , "We surrender" in proper appeaser form. Maybe work on your French accent, might make it seem more plausible.
Click to expand...

I do not recall actually offering a solution only saying that they are there. Which makes it kind of premature for you to already announce that the solution is simplistic. Another closed mind so secure in his pride of ownership that he need not bother to listen to already dismiss.

I state there are other solutions and you accuse me of just giving up. You don't need me for this conversation do you, you have already had it in your own head.

You should not be so proud of everything you say. Or you have a very low level of pride if you think this display of assumptions on your part is something to be proud of.
 
soylentgreen said:
I do not recall actually offering a solution only saying that they are there. Which makes it kind of premature for you to already announce that the solution is simplistic. Another closed mind so secure in his pride of ownership that he need not bother to listen to already dismiss.

I state there are other solutions and you accuse me of just giving up. You don't need me for this conversation do you, you have already had it in your own head.

You should not be so proud of everything you say. Or you have a very low level of pride if you think this display of assumptions on your part is something to be proud of.
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Your first paragraph is repeating what I said but calling me closed minded and premature. Nice. Also right about not even presenting a solution yet saying the way Trump is doing it is bad. Silly barely pondered notions.

I do not have to have the conversation in my own head, you made it without offering any better solutions right here in the reality.

I just try to say the truth and yes, I do take pride in that.
 
Gaugingcatenate said:
Your first paragraph is repeating what I said but calling me closed minded and premature. Nice. Also right about not even presenting a solution yet saying the way Trump is doing it is bad. Silly barely pondered notions.

I do not have to have the conversation in my own head, you made it without offering any better solutions right here in the reality.

I just try to say the truth and yes, I do take pride in that.
Click to expand...

You have to admit that the attitude presented by you is dismissive even before i get around to expressing an idea about it.

The wall idea includes the removal of illegals. Not the problem. The problem is that many of them did fill a vacuum in the work force. Jobs not well paid. Do we have an agreement here or must we work our way through this?
 
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