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Liberal left wing domestic terrorists

I would agree with this. I think if you look at some of the more radical animal rights activists and destruction of testing facilities, releasing lab animals, etc. as terrorism. I would even go so far as to add specifically targeting groups like police officers (Dallas for example). The Klan would also be a terrorist group in my mind.

A demonstration that is allegedly planned to be peaceful that erupts in violence I would consider a riot. Spontaneous eruptions as well.

The end results can be similar but in my examples, I would charge the animal rights and Klan with terrorism and charge the Berkley group with all sorts of other criminal mischief including rioting. However, I would condemn them all.

Right, I am pretty much aligned with you here.

I mean essentially this means the definition of a Riot is a group of spontaneous terrorists, and if that's really the way people want to go with their labels then ok I guess, but I am very uncomfortable with that. Terrorist is a label that, once applied to a person, serves to automatically discredit and delegitimize whatever it is that are fighting about and make them villains, and there are a hell of a lot of people who riot over causes that are very valid and very important. Causes that do deserve passionate support, even if I disapprove whole heatedly when people erupt into violence over it.
 
Man....where was this conviction when Tea Partiers were marching with "hang obama" signs.
1. Was Obama actually hung during any of these marches?
2. Was there any property destruction or violence during any of these marches?

Where was this conviction when picket lines of men holding rifles turned back buses of refugee kids?
1. Were any of the refugee kids or bus drivers subject to bodily harm during these pickets?
2. Was there any property damage or violence done during these pickets?

Where is this conviction when Alex Jones goes on one of his rants about getting guns and standing up to the government and seizing control?
1. Were there any armed uprisings or government seizure done as a result of his rants?
2. Was there any property damage or violence done as a direct result of his rants?

Nothing gets conservative dicks harder faster than playing at or flirting with armed uprising.
Which incident of armed uprising are you referring to?
 
Ok, I can settle this very easily. Do you think that any/all acts of violence or force used in pursuit of social or political goals is terrorism? If you do, if you call the Oregon Militamen terrorists, or the Bundy Ranch folk terrorists, or the killer this week in Canada who shot all of those muslims a terrorist, if you are consistent and call all of those people terrorists as well, any and every person who uses force or violence in pursuit of their large scale goals, then ok, we're fine. I might not use the word terrorist for all of those cases, but as long as you are consistent I have no beef with you.

Laughable attempt jimithyashford.

You mention Oregon. Did they burn down buildings, beat up opposition, and cause mayhem? Did they attempt to silence and subvert peoples constitutional rights? Did they use violence in pursuit of social or political goals?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Occupation_of_the_Malheur_National_Wildlife_Refuge

By February 11, all of the militants had surrendered or withdrawn from the occupation, with several leaders having been arrested after leaving the site and one of them shot to death in an attempt to arrest him.

More than two dozen of the militants have been charged with federal offenses including conspiracy to obstruct federal officers, firearms violations, theft, and depredation of federal property.

Many pleaded guilty and many, including Ammon and Ryan Bundy, have been tried and acquitted of all federal charges.​

So were they charged with any violent acts?


Save it, you attempt reveals your play and take. I've seen this type of argument a 1,000 times.

What happened in Berkeley was encouraged and incited by domestic terrorists, no getting around that fact.
 
Laughable attempt jimithyashford.

You mention Oregon. Did they burn down buildings, beat up opposition, and cause mayhem? Did they attempt to silence and subvert peoples constitutional rights? Did they use violence in pursuit of social or political goals?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Occupation_of_the_Malheur_National_Wildlife_Refuge

By February 11, all of the militants had surrendered or withdrawn from the occupation, with several leaders having been arrested after leaving the site and one of them shot to death in an attempt to arrest him.

More than two dozen of the militants have been charged with federal offenses including conspiracy to obstruct federal officers, firearms violations, theft, and depredation of federal property.

Many pleaded guilty and many, including Ammon and Ryan Bundy, have been tried and acquitted of all federal charges.​

So were they charged with any violent acts?


Save it, you attempt reveals your play and take. I've seen this type of argument a 1,000 times.

What happened in Berkeley was encouraged and incited by domestic terrorists, no getting around that fact.

The FBI definition doesn't just say violence, it says violence or force, and every law enforcement agency in the world considers pointing guns at people violence and/or force, but ok, if you don't like any of the example then just ignore the examples, poof, gone. Is every single case in which violence or force is used to purse a political or social goal terrorism, period, end of sentence?
 
1. Was Obama actually hung during any of these marches?
2. Was there any property destruction or violence during any of these marches?


1. Were any of the refugee kids or bus drivers subject to bodily harm during these pickets?
2. Was there any property damage or violence done during these pickets?


1. Were there any armed uprisings or government seizure done as a result of his rants?
2. Was there any property damage or violence done as a direct result of his rants?


Which incident of armed uprising are you referring to?

None of those were examples of actual violence they were example of calls to/threats of violence. I was responding to your post where you said, and I quote "Anyone who openly calls for violence should be considered enemies of the state."

That's what you said, so I brought up numerous instances of calls to violence from conservative sources and asked if you have this outrage consistently or reserve it only for people you disagree with? Or are you prepared to argue that threats of hanging, calls to government overthrow, and turning people away at gun point do not constitute calls to violence or making violent threats?

Or were those people forming the armed picket lines had holding the hang Obama signs just kidding around, those scamps, they didn't really mean it to be construed as serious?

Or when you said unequivocally and in bold Anyone who makes calls to violence should be considered an enemy of the state, you didn't really mean anyone?
 
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The FBI definition doesn't just say violence, it says violence or force, and every law enforcement agency in the world considers pointing guns at people violence and/or force, but ok, if you don't like any of the example then just ignore the examples, poof, gone. Is every single case in which violence or force is used to purse a political or social goal terrorism, period, end of sentence?

In Oregon, they took over an unoccupied building.

You're attempt at equivalence was DOA.

I will say there have been radical groups on the right who would certainly qualify as domestic terrorists.

There is no defense for what took place in Berkeley, and no spin that will remove the proper application of the word terrorist to those who used violence and force against persons or property to coerce a social or political agenda.
 
In Oregon, they took over an unoccupied building.

You're attempt at equivalence was DOA.

I will say there have been radical groups on the right who would certainly qualify as domestic terrorists.

There is no defense for what took place in Berkeley, and no spin that will remove the proper application of the word terrorist to those who used violence and force against persons or property to coerce a social or political agenda.

I am not defending Berkeley, I think I made sure to say like three times in my relies earlier that I disapprove of rioting, but I disagree with your notion that Rioter=Terrorist, full stop, end of sentence, simply because historically speaking we very seldom refer to rioters as terrorists, those two things are not synonyms, they are not equivilant, at least not in pretty much any historical account I've ever read of such events. But if you are seeking to start changing that, and to being refering to rioters as terrorists and not making any distinction, then ok, but I am trying to probe you for consistancy, are you saying that any and all violence that occures in pursuit of political or social goals is terrorism, can you just give that a yes or a no please? It's not a complex question.

If you answer is no, then please provide an example of what kind of violence in pursuit of political/social goals would not be considered terrorism. Not complicated, not a trick question, just simple probing.
 
I am not defending Berkeley, I think I made sure to say like three times in my relies earlier that I disapprove of rioting, but I disagree with your notion that Rioter=Terrorist, full stop, end of sentence, simply because historically speaking we very seldom refer to rioters as terrorists, those two things are not synonyms, they are not equivilant, at least not in pretty much any historical account I've ever read of such events. But if you are seeking to start changing that, and to being refering to rioters as terrorists and not making any distinction, then ok, but I am trying to probe you for consistancy, are you saying that any and all violence that occures in pursuit of political or social goals is terrorism, can you just give that a yes or a no please? It's not a complex question.

If you answer is no, then please provide an example of what kind of violence in pursuit of political/social goals would not be considered terrorism. Not complicated, not a trick question, just simple probing.

A person who resorts to riot in pursuit of a political agenda terrorizes the people in the area. They are domestic terrorists.

I won't change that opinion.

I have no problem at all with people protesting.
 
None of those were examples of actual violence they were example of calls to/threats of violence. I was responding to your post where you said, and I quote "Anyone who openly calls for violence should be considered enemies of the state."

That's what you said, so I brought up numerous instances of calls to violence from conservative sources and asked if you have this outrage consistently or reserve it only for people you disagree with? Or are you prepared to argue that threats of hanging, calls to government overthrow, and turning people away at gun point do not constitute calls to violence or making violent threats?

Or were those people forming the armed picket lines had holding the hang Obama signs just kidding around, those scamps, they didn't really mean it to be construed as serious?

Or when you said unequivocally and in bold Anyone who makes calls to violence should be considered an enemy of the state, you didn't really mean anyone?

Then...yes. There was absolutely no reason for calls to violence towards Obama. Honestly, I'm surprised he got through eight years without an assassination attempt from some backwards redneck.

I just don't remember there rioting on campuses, property damage during the inauguration of Obama.
 
Then...yes. There was absolutely no reason for calls to violence towards Obama. Honestly, I'm surprised he got through eight years without an assassination attempt from some backwards redneck.

I just don't remember there rioting on campuses, property damage during the inauguration of Obama.

But would you call those people enemies of the state, as you rather emphatically stated anyone making such threats ought to be?

And, just in case I was not clear before, I absolutely 100% do not approve of violent rioting, not at all, I was just asking follow up probing questions about your seemingly universal statement.


I will also add, and this is slightly a different discussion, a bit more political philosophy than political practice, but still relevant, that population that are in political ascendancy or potency very seldom riot, whereas populations lacking that are much more likely to, that is just historically true, that should not be a controversial statement.

Because the thing is that in this world, the ultimate authority is the authority of the tooth and the claw, the ultimate rule is survival of the fittest, politics in particular and society in general is more or less a long running gentleman's agreement to settle disputes through a non-violent process. We all have agreed for the mutual benefit to set aside the rule of tooth and claw and use politics instead, but as an Enlightenment philosopher once said (I apologize I can't remember which) rights and law and politics are not inherent to anyone or derived from anything other than consent of the masses. You do not have a right to free speech beyond the fact that you live in a nation with other people willing to grant it to you so that they will be granted it in return. If you find yourself in a land of people who hate what you have to say and commonly agree you should be hung for saying it, then your "Rights" effectively cease to exist and your ass is hung.

This is all to say that when politics does not work for a population. When they lack political power, lack the numbers or the influence or the wealth to actually achieve goals via political processes, when politics is not a viable means to wield results, and the issue they are upset about is dire enough, then the law of tooth and claw begins to re-emerge and violence becomes more frequent.

To use an extreme example that almost every morally healthy person can agree with, in Venezuela right the is political chaos and famine. Right? You've probably seen the headlines. The current administration controls every branch of government with an iron fist, shut down elections, simply ignored a valid law abiding petition to recall, you know, normal dictator stuff. Now the problems the people face are dire, they are starving, they are poor, they are eaten up with crime, these are desperate circumstances and the political route has proven to be fruitless. Now either those people can just accept that they've lost this political fight, and just endure the status quo, but of course when you are starving you can't very well do that. So it is all by inevitable, when the political process has utterly failed them, that the people will turn violent. They will start to riot, there will be uprisings.

But on the other end of the spectrum if some group of bankers was all mad that they lost the fight for a 25% tax rate as opposed to 30%, then they would seem petty and foolish for rioting. Their situation is not dire, it is completely endurable, they should accept the political loss and move on.

Those are two extremes that most people can probably agree with, but the real world isn't usually made of extremes, it's usually made of in betweens. I mean it's not like White Conservative folk haven't rioted and committed major violence before when they lost a political fight and felt they had no other option. Plenty of broken windows and burnt churches and hung necks belonging to black folk from the reconstruction through the 70s can attest to that. Hell the deadliest war we've ever fought, our own Civil War, was fought because the abolitionist northerners seized a super majority in congress and the presidency and the supreme court and the South saw that they were never going to be able to win a political battle in the foreseeable future, and hundreds of millions died because they considered that plight to dire to simply accept and move on.

So what about the rioters of today? Well it's always hard to judge these things in real time as it's happening. How will history view these events, I can't say for sure. But what I can say is that if I was a latino immigrant, or a muslim immigrant, I would sure as hell feel like there was no political option open to me and I was left with either accept my fate and move on or resort to violence. Now I am not a violent person, so I personally would probably accept the fate and move on, but you cannot deny that is an extremely tough pill to swallow.
 
And the people who attempted to burn down Berkeley last night were what?
From what I've heard (as in hearsay), those dressed in black were enticed by George Soros' organizations.
 
So it was conservatives who did this? Was it conservatives who torched Ferguson and Baltimore last year? Was it conservatives who almost rioted on inauguration day?

No...but it was Conservatives that blew up a federal building that killed hundreds of people and had an armed stand off with federal employees.
 
No...but it was Conservatives that blew up a federal building that killed hundreds of people and had an armed stand off with federal employees.
No. That was one crazy dude in Oklahoma who happened to be conservative. Are you intimating the rioters in black at Cal/Berkley are crazy? Did other conservatives praise McVeigh for his bombing in OKC like liberals seem to be doing in Cal/Berkeley?
 
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From what I've heard (as in hearsay), those dressed in black were enticed by George Soros' organizations.

There is little question the Progressive Machine Soros and his partners have built is involved in the protests and other aggressive actions being endorsed by the EX President.

IMO, it might be a stretch to connect him, and his organizations, to the actions of the domestic terrorists who were part of the mayhem in Berkeley.

It's already been established Soros organizations have funded aggressive racist groups like BLM, and others, so I suppose there is a possibility, but I'm not on board with that.
 
There is little question the Progressive Machine Soros and his partners have built is involved in the protests and other aggressive actions being endorsed by the EX President.

IMO, it might be a stretch to connect him, and his organizations, to the actions of the domestic terrorists who were part of the mayhem in Berkeley.

It's already been established Soros organizations have funded aggressive racist groups like BLM, and others, so I suppose there is a possibility, but I'm not on board with that.

Sessions ought to order an investigation into Soros funded groups. Violence seems to follow those people where ever they go.
 
Sessions ought to order an investigation into Soros funded groups. Violence seems to follow those people where ever they go.

I would support such an investigation. The spider web of groups and organizations he is in partnership with is astonishing, and alarming.

From the largest labor unions in the Nation, to dark ops type organizations like those operated by David Brock, George Soros personifies the Ernst Stavro Blofeld/Spectre character in the Bond films.
 
There is little question the Progressive Machine Soros and his partners have built is involved in the protests and other aggressive actions being endorsed by the EX President.

IMO, it might be a stretch to connect him, and his organizations, to the actions of the domestic terrorists who were part of the mayhem in Berkeley.

It's already been established Soros organizations have funded aggressive racist groups like BLM, and others, so I suppose there is a possibility, but I'm not on board with that.
Investigation, maybe? Sorry, already posted by you. I didn't read to the end of the thread. Sorry.
 
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