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$15 Minimum Wage costing jobs as anyone who runs a business knew would happen

zimmer said:
Let the market decide.

If the wage is too low, they won't get people. Ever think of that?

It's not slave labor.

You're free to choose.
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Correct, and what more and more and more people are choosing, is to not take those jobs. And what happens? Do those people starve? Die alone and naked in the street? No. They go on social services.
 
washunut said:
Firstly, not sure it is appropriate to say that people who do not agree with your version of minimum wage are anti- minimum wage.

So who will fill MOST of these jobs. A number of folks might fit into this category: Students, retired, people who want part-time work with limited hours as well as people who are starting in the workplace and have to start on the first wrung of the ladder.
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Yeah, that might work great on whichever planet you live on but the reality here doesn't match this. There are literally millions of people in jobs that you deem to be unacceptable for them and there sure as hell aren't the same number of jobs out there they can move into that you'd be ok with.

Also not sure why anyone would think that a one size fits all approach to minimum wage makes sense. If you are truly concerned about people not made up issues, then this would be a local issue as the cost of living on the coasts is materially different than other more rural areas as an example.
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Which is why states, or cities if the state allows, are allowed to set a higher minimum wage via their normal process of elected representatives passing legislation.

Adjusted for inflation, the federal minimum wage has been declining for like 40 years. It's not unreasonable to suggest it needs a bump.
 
DA60 said:
Doubling millions of people's wages with zero increase in production represents a huge decline in productivity.

Anyone who thinks large reductions in productivity is good for an economy is staggeringly ignorant on this subject.
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Ahh, so you want to index minimum wage to productivity then? Fantastic. Lets have minimum wage catch back up to productivity and go from there. (minimum wage has not kept up with productivity for decades)
 
Deuce said:
So, no McDonald's during school hours then?

The entitlement sense in this anti-minimum wage rhetoric is just grotesque. You're demanding people live in poverty so you can save less than a dollar on your crappy cheeseburger.
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Let them get off their ass and go learn a profitable trade, or open a book.
 
RetiredUSN said:
Let them get off their ass and go learn a profitable trade, or open a book.
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Which, again, is this fun unicorn idea all the right-wingers have where the world is a fair and just place. If you just work harder or learn a new skill all will be great.

Feel free to complete the math exercise I mentioned before. There are millions unemployed, millions more in jobs you think aren't good enough. Compare that to the number of available jobs out there. (and remember you have to subtract out all those service industry jobs that don't pay enough for your liking)

Fill every well-paying job in the country, and millions will still not have jobs at all. Tell me the solution.

You don't have one. You just want them to live in poverty, sucking up MY tax dollars to pick up the slack, all so you can save a dollar on your big mac. YOU want the burger? YOU should take the responsibility and pay the real costs of getting it to your mouth.

I think there's a big gap in understanding here: the older generation thinks these jobs are just for kids while they go to school, not realizing these jobs don't actually pay for school anymore. It's so easy for, say, a retired navyman on a military pension to just look down on these kids, when you just don't realize that millenials have an objectively worse and harder job market than you ever did.
 
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Deuce said:
Which, again, is this fun unicorn idea all the right-wingers have where the world is a fair and just place. If you just work harder or learn a new skill all will be great.

Feel free to complete the math exercise I mentioned before. There are millions unemployed, millions more in jobs you think aren't good enough. Compare that to the number of available jobs out there. (and remember you have to subtract out all those service industry jobs that don't pay enough for your liking)

Fill every well-paying job in the country, and millions will still not have jobs at all. Tell me the solution.

You don't have one. You just want them to live in poverty, sucking up MY tax dollars to pick up the slack, all so you can save a dollar on your big mac. YOU want the burger? YOU should take the responsibility and pay the real costs of getting it to your mouth.

I think there's a big gap in understanding here: the older generation thinks these jobs are just for kids while they go to school, not realizing these jobs don't actually pay for school anymore.
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Please stop making your argument by adding petty assumptions and accusations.

Show me a trade school where it would cost you 60-150 thousand dollars.

A burger flipper should be paid the same as a entry level AC/R tech?
 
Of course you're likely to see local disruptions with local MW laws. It's the kind of policy that works best on a national level.
 
zimmer said:
Hurting those they claim to assist... once again.
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You need multi-year studies that account for other influences in hiring to distinguish the alleged effects of MW hikes on employment. Most such studies don't support your claim.

The Post article is junk. It's a well-known conservative rag, owned by Murdoch, and is pretty much all anecdotes and vague references to studies.

Crain's is more neutral, but its audience is clear... as is its lack of objective data. Most of the owners interviewed don't seem to understand the basic fact that due to inflation, your costs will go up pretty much every year. Any business owner who doesn't understand that is not going to be in business for long.

NYT article discusses one simulation that is fascinating, except that it doesn't seem to hold up in the real world. The second is a preliminary study that suggests that bad or incompetent -- or at the very least, unpopular -- restaurants don't do well when their costs go up slightly. This should surprise no one, as a business that cannot handle an externality like this is not healthy in the first place. And it doesn't show that the result is a decline in restaurant employment in that specific region.

The Newsbusters article describes the second study mentioned in the NYT article, with a heavy right-wing spin. *yawn*

By the way, I have no problems accepting that there will be some unintended negative consequences of any policy. What I have a problem with is people who cherry-pick evidence, and don't actually bother to read what they link.
 
RetiredUSN said:
Please stop making your argument by adding petty assumptions and accusations.

Show me a trade school where it would cost you 60-150 thousand dollars.

A burger flipper should be paid the same as a entry level AC/R tech?
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....someone making minimum wage can't pay $5000 in tuition, I don't know where this 60-150k number of yours becomes relevant.

Anyone business currently paying $15/hour would find itself competing with McDonald's et al. You don't think they'd raise pay at all? Or, you think those techs are going to leave those jobs for fast food?

You talk about cost of business with the wage hike, but what about the costs to the taxpayers? If Wal-Mart doesn't pay enough for someone to live, I make up the difference. Why is that ok with you? Why shouldn't Wal-Mart's customers pay that instead?
 
Deuce said:
....someone making minimum wage can't pay $5000 in tuition, I don't know where this 60-150k number of yours becomes relevant.

Anyone business currently paying $15/hour would find itself competing with McDonald's et al. You don't think they'd raise pay at all? Or, you think those techs are going to leave those jobs for fast food?
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Lmao......you haven't a clue about business. Stay with what you are good at, whatever that may be.
 
RetiredUSN said:
Lmao......you haven't a clue about business. Stay with what you are good at, whatever that may be.
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Says the guy unable to even provide a rebuttal other than personal attacks.
 
RetiredUSN said:
No........you did with your original post to me. Now you want to play the panty waste routine?
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Says the guy first to whine about exactly that.

Do you have a rebuttal or not?
 
Deuce said:
Says the guy first to whine about exactly that.

Do you have a rebuttal or not?
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Your original BS to me........


Feel free to complete the math exercise I mentioned before. There are millions unemployed, millions more in jobs you think aren't good enough. Compare that to the number of available jobs out there. (and remember you have to subtract out all those service industry jobs that don't pay enough for your liking)

Fill every well-paying job in the country, and millions will still not have jobs at all. Tell me the solution.

You don't have one. You just want them to live in poverty, sucking up MY tax dollars to pick up the slack, all so you can save a dollar on your big mac. YOU want the burger? YOU should take the responsibility and pay the real costs of getting it to your mouth.

I think there's a big gap in understanding here: the older generation thinks these jobs are just for kids while they go to school, not realizing these jobs don't actually pay for school anymore.



Care to post more lies, or continue on with your usual BS?
 
RetiredUSN said:
Your original BS to me........


Feel free to complete the math exercise I mentioned before. There are millions unemployed, millions more in jobs you think aren't good enough. Compare that to the number of available jobs out there. (and remember you have to subtract out all those service industry jobs that don't pay enough for your liking)

Fill every well-paying job in the country, and millions will still not have jobs at all. Tell me the solution.

You don't have one. You just want them to live in poverty, sucking up MY tax dollars to pick up the slack, all so you can save a dollar on your big mac. YOU want the burger? YOU should take the responsibility and pay the real costs of getting it to your mouth.

I think there's a big gap in understanding here: the older generation thinks these jobs are just for kids while they go to school, not realizing these jobs don't actually pay for school anymore.



Then you went on to say.....


Which, again, is this fun unicorn idea all the right-wingers have where the world is a fair and just place. If you just work harder or learn a new skill all will be great.

Feel free to complete the math exercise I mentioned before. There are millions unemployed, millions more in jobs you think aren't good enough. Compare that to the number of available jobs out there. (and remember you have to subtract out all those service industry jobs that don't pay enough for your liking)

Fill every well-paying job in the country, and millions will still not have jobs at all. Tell me the solution.

You don't have one. You just want them to live in poverty, sucking up MY tax dollars to pick up the slack, all so you can save a dollar on your big mac. YOU want the burger? YOU should take the responsibility and pay the real costs of getting it to your mouth.

I think there's a big gap in understanding here: the older generation thinks these jobs are just for kids while they go to school, not realizing these jobs don't actually pay for school anymore. It's so easy for, say, a retired navyman on a military pension to just look down on these kids, when you just don't realize that millenials have an objectively worse and harder job market than you ever did.




You are so full of it.
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