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Where was the Left?

Mason66 said:
In post 10 the poster did say that. He specified just Mexicans though, for some reason.
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Yeah, I corrected that in another post. It's a statement that always pops up in threads about immigration. Thanks :)
 
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Velvet Elvis said:
When in Miami next, I'll come over and rob your house. After all...those walls are just arbitrary lines, right? I know there are laws about stealing, but hey...they're not inherently right or moral either? I mean...what if I'm poorer than you, and I'm just trying to make myself a better life by pawning all that crap off for money to buy food?
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I see you ignored my comparison about someone speeding to get to the hospital in the case of an emergency. A case in which the person is not directly hurting anyone else, but where a case can be made their actions could in some cases could hurt other people...like illegal immigration. In cases like that, i believe there should be flexibility, ya.

As for stealing from my house, you won't find all that much worth stealing lol, but your actions would be directly hurting me, which makes it somewhat different imo. It is still not some black or white issue, if someone is stealing out of necessity id still argue for flexibility, but its a different kind of crime.
 
Josie said:
Um, no. I asked for a few examples of anyone on the left criticizing Obama for deporting illegal aliens. As I said, I don't recall hearing anyone here on the left say boo about it. Did you disagree with his actions?
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No, I didn't agree with his immigration policies, nor with many others. Strip away these idiotically oversimplified labeling of "left" and "right" and actually look at what individuals believe. You'll find there's always been people vocally and adamantly against it but if you didn't see it on an internet debate forum or Fox news you don't think they existed.
 
Josie said:
So why are liberals and progressives upset about Trump wanting to deport illegal immigrants? I didn't hear them complaining when Obama did it.
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Because demonizing immigrants as the solution to complex problems is a populist ploy and is not consistent with our values as a nation. America will be weaker not stronger.
 
RabidAlpaca said:
No, I didn't agree with his immigration policies, nor with many others. Strip away these idiotically oversimplified labeling of "left" and "right" and actually look at what individuals believe. You'll find there's always been people vocally and adamantly against it but if you didn't see it on an internet debate forum or Fox news you don't think they existed.
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You know this isn't gonna cut it.

:popcorn:
 
RabidAlpaca said:
Obama deported dramatically more Mexicans than any president in history. You'd think he would've been the right's hero, but they were too busy with partisan bull****. This has been a team effort.
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Do you really still believe this lie?? He changed how deportations are measured by including those turned back at the border, something that wasn't counted as a deportation by any prior admin. This has been so well documented and the lie so thoroughly debunked that I'm amazed that anyone still believes it...
 
Josie said:
So why are liberals and progressives upset about Trump wanting to deport illegal immigrants? I didn't hear them complaining when Obama did it.
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For the same reason that they virtually stopped anti-war protest during the Obama admin., even though we were still engaged in the very wars that they were protesting during the Bush admin. It's not about opposing these ideas, it's about opposing anyone who isn't a DNC approved liberal.
 
faithful_servant said:
Do you really still believe this lie?? He changed how deportations are measured by including those turned back at the border, something that wasn't counted as a deportation by any prior admin. This has been so well documented and the lie so thoroughly debunked that I'm amazed that anyone still believes it...
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He hasn't answered my challenge to that statement. I bet he doesn't answer yours.
 
RabidAlpaca said:
So you'd like 8 years of proof that everyone left of center-right didn't agree with the president on his immigration policies? You're just lumping half of the country together as a single set of positions because it makes it easier for your brain to process. Lots of people from both sides of the aisle heavily disagreed with his immigration policies.
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Really??? Show us the pro-illegal immigration/anti-Obama protests...
 
RabidAlpaca said:
No, I didn't agree with his immigration policies, nor with many others. Strip away these idiotically oversimplified labeling of "left" and "right" and actually look at what individuals believe. You'll find there's always been people vocally and adamantly against it but if you didn't see it on an internet debate forum or Fox news you don't think they existed.
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So show us the million Mexican march where they burned Pres. Obama in effigy.
 
RabidAlpaca said:
No, I didn't agree with his immigration policies, nor with many others. Strip away these idiotically oversimplified labeling of "left" and "right" and actually look at what individuals believe. You'll find there's always been people vocally and adamantly against it but if you didn't see it on an internet debate forum or Fox news you don't think they existed.
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So you criticized Obama's immigration policies here? That's all I'm asking for you to show me since I don't recall seeing it at all. We (almost) all have individual leans on our profiles so I don't know why you're having such a hissy fit about me using a term that you use for yourself.
 
Josie said:
Yes, he is a moron. But specifically, we're talking about deporting illegal immigrants here. Both Clinton and Trump said it was important. The hypocrisy of the left (and the right, I'm sure) is being discussed here. Maybe someone can help me out here -- I wasn't into politics when I was a teenager back in the 90s -- did the right fight him on deporting illegal immigrants?
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No. The Right generally always supports deporting illegal aliens, and the Left generally always opposes it.

The reason people are getting confused here is that they insist on classifying Clinton as part of "the Left", classifying establishment liberals as part of "the Left", when both the Republican and Democratic parties have been tilting more and more right-wing since the election of Reagan. A number of genuine Leftists still belong to the Democratic Party, and until 2016 the DNC at least attempted to pander to them, but the Clinton wing of the party and the party leadership itself has been center-right for my entire life.
 
MaggieD said:
Mark Zuckerburg has roundly criticized the wall. He doesn't like walls. Well, except for the one he's building around his house....
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He also loves the idea of importing workers instead of hiring Americans in the Tech industry.
 
iguanaman said:
Because demonizing immigrants as the solution to complex problems is a populist ploy and is not consistent with our values as a nation. America will be weaker not stronger.
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No one is demonizing legal immigrants. It's the illegals we want gone.
 
RabidAlpaca said:
Obama deported dramatically more Mexicans than any president in history. You'd think he would've been the right's hero, but they were too busy with partisan bull****. This has been a team effort.
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Didn't they start counting "turn aways" as deportations, thus skewing the statistics?
 
MaggieD said:
Oh! They were applauding.

Dont believe it? Here's the SOTU excerpt...
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...Is Bill being tougher on deporting illegal immigrants who commit crimes supposed to be some sort of "gotcha" comparable to Trump banning legal, visa-holding immigrants while they're in the ****ing air because of their religion?

Sorry, this is about as hard of a fail as it's possible to have, Maggie. I would say you're better than this, but honestly, I'm not sure about that anymore.
 
SmokeAndMirrors said:
...Is Bill being tougher on deporting illegal immigrants who commit crimes supposed to be some sort of "gotcha" comparable to Trump banning legal, visa-holding immigrants while they're in the ****ing air because of their religion?

Sorry, this is about as hard of a fail as it's possible to have, Maggie. I would say you're better than this, but honestly, I'm not sure about that anymore.
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I was shaking my head about that too.
 
MaggieD said:
<stupid dishonest internet memes omitted from this quote>
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Clinton: Crack down on illegal hiring, barring welfare benefits to illegals, speed deportation of illegals convicted of crimes, "better identify" illegals in workforce.

Trump: Deport them all, build a huge wall, and ban muslims trying to enter.



So to answer your dishonest post, Maggie, one reason might be that the Hated Left applauded Clinton and Boo'd Trump is that they are talking about completely different things. Clinton made common sense statements regarding something both sides can agree one, while Trump went completely overboard.

Yet another reason might be that Trump isn't even doing what he told you he'd do. He said he'd halt Muslim immigration (sometimes limited to countries with ties to terrorism, sometimes not). So now he targets seven "muslim" countries while ignoring Saudi Arabia, Egypt, UAE, Lebanon, Qatar. All those latter are countries with ties to terrorism but aren't targeted by the EO his supporters are blindly praising.

Difference? Well, he does business with the countries he is excluding from his EO

(Note: Egypt, Saudi Arabia, UAE & Lebanon are where the 9/11 hijakers came from).
 
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