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Trump's Hope and Change

shrubnose said:
We'll learn what they think about Trump's time in the White House about 4 years from now.

If a lot of people aren't doing a lot better I predict that he'll be a one-term president.
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Your political predictions and observations sure aren’t the most reliable, but keep up hope/change.
 
RetiredUSN said:
You have no way of knowing how minorities will vote 10 years from now.
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You are correct--Reagan's amnesty certainly gave the GOP more votes under both Bush's than it did against Obama.

Obama paid lip service to the "dream" Hispanics, and they will remember his empty promises. He could have pushed the Dream Act through, but chose to go with some BS healthcare law that hurt as many people as it helped.
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Which GOParty is against DACA?

Remember Rubio getting booed in front of TEAturd gatherings after the Dream Act was passed?

Remember what happened to Cantor when he tried a baby step of immigration reform in 2014 ?
 
NIMBY said:
You are correct--Reagan's amnesty certainly gave the GOP more votes under both Bush's than it did against Obama.



Which GOParty is against DACA?

Remember Rubio getting booed in front of TEAturd gatherings after the Dream Act was passed?

Remember what happened to Cantor when he tried a baby step of immigration reform in 2014 ?
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Opinions are changing on the issue. Most folks accept the fact that they cannot be sent back to a place where they have no roots.
 
calamity said:
Well, it was a D who pushed through NAFTA and supported pulling back Glass-Steagall. Obama and Hillary both wanted to push through TPP. So, it's not like we can count on them to protect us or help our cause either.

Like I said, if Trump stiffs the worker bees, they will sting him rather quickly.
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Signing those bills was probably the dumbest thing Clinton did in his 8 years. They were both written by and pushed by Republicans. NAFTA was GHWB's baby. Clinton just picked it up.

Glass-Steagall? Killed by a bill called Gramm, Leach, Bliley - 3 Republican names.

I don't think Trump has the capability or the congressional cooperation to "make" low-skilled, high paying jobs come flooding back to the rust belt. That train started leaving in the late 1970's. Coal? Technology and NG reduced the need for large numbers of miners and demand, respectively.

But Trump can do more empty fluff, ala Carrier. Or lie outright, ala Ford. Frankly, I think he's all about optics and personal profit, but I hope I'm wrong and he's changed at age 70. It could happen.
 
RetiredUSN said:
Opinions are changing on the issue. Most folks accept the fact that they cannot be sent back to a place where they have no roots.
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That's a reasonable position for you to have.

Unfortunately, that is not the position that gave trump the GOP nomination or won him the POTUS.

trump is a master of changing his message to his audience, as we continue to see each day .
 
shrubnose said:
Believe whatever you want to believe but I doubt that many minority group voters will be voting for those who hate,fear and despise them.

Would you?
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That is a twisted view of the Republicans.
 
RetiredUSN said:
Yeah........... you keep posting this same comment about every other thread.

Are you autistic?
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We saw the same thing before election about Hillary winning.
 
NIMBY said:
That's a reasonable position for you to have.

Unfortunately, that is not the position that gave trump the GOP nomination or won him the POTUS.

trump is a master of changing his message to his audience, as we continue to see each day .
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Obama was also.

So was Bush 41.

So was Bill Clinton.
 
The democratic party is so screwed up they almost nominated a socialist who honeymooned in the Soviet Union. You are correct, that should have been a huge warning flag. Instead, they embraced the BLM movement and made social "justice" their cause. Instead of having unemployed rust belt workers on stage with Hilary she had the mothers of Trayvon Martin and Michael Brown. She reflected the values of the liberal echo chamber and was completely out of touch with most Americans. AND nothing has changed. The marginalization of the liberal party continues. Thank you, Jesus.



calamity said:
That the Left still fails to see that is kind of troubling. Bernie should have woken them up to the fact that the D establishment was in big trouble. Maybe, they were just so ****-sure that Trump would implode that they just ignored all the warning signs and stuck to their worn out script.

The thing is, Trump did do pretty much everything they hoped for. He made rude comments; he stuck to throwing out silly Tweets; he came unprepared to the debates, and his *****-grab video appeared to be perfect fodder for the D, which I am sure they assumed would sink him. But a funny thing happened, to quote the writer in the op, "The people who work for a living said, no. Hell no."
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TobyOne said:
The democratic party is so screwed up they almost nominated a socialist who honeymooned in the Soviet Union. You are correct, that should have been a huge warning flag. Instead, they embraced the BLM movement and made social "justice" their cause. Instead of having unemployed rust belt workers on stage with Hilary she had the mothers of Trayvon Martin and Michael Brown. She reflected the values of the liberal echo chamber and was completely out of touch with most Americans. AND nothing has changed. The marginalization of the liberal party continues. Thank you, Jesus.
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They have BLM and PC nonsense. You have the KKK and the rest of the alt-right, along with the Rapture Rangers. Cheers:bravo::2funny:
 
Porkuloss said:
They have BLM and PC nonsense. You have the KKK and the rest of the alt-right, along with the Rapture Rangers. Cheers:bravo::2funny:
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THAT is why I am a Centrist.
 
Porkuloss said:
Signing those bills was probably the dumbest thing Clinton did in his 8 years. They were both written by and pushed by Republicans. NAFTA was GHWB's baby. Clinton just picked it up.

Glass-Steagall? Killed by a bill called Gramm, Leach, Bliley - 3 Republican names.

I don't think Trump has the capability or the congressional cooperation to "make" low-skilled, high paying jobs come flooding back to the rust belt. That train started leaving in the late 1970's. Coal? Technology and NG reduced the need for large numbers of miners and demand, respectively.

But Trump can do more empty fluff, ala Carrier. Or lie outright, ala Ford. Frankly, I think he's all about optics and personal profit, but I hope I'm wrong and he's changed at age 70. It could happen.
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Yep. But, Clinton sold NAFTA as a great thing instead of railing against it. So, now he wears it. Same with G-S repeal. Instead of vetoing it, he signed it and said, this is great for Teacher's pensions, or something stupid like that.

Presidents are brands, salesmen and outright con artists who sell the game to the pleebs. See above. Trump will be the best president in ages on that. Obama was not. In fact, Obama was really unskilled at lying. He would lose big in our Saturday night poker parties. In fact, we should invite him. :)
 
giving jobs to mexico makes more sense than shipping them overseas.
 
Militant_Vegan_ said:
giving jobs to mexico makes more sense than shipping them overseas.
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Except a lot of those jobs went overseas anyway, and the goods ship here through Mexico under the NAFTA banner. Almost everything my company buys from Asia first gets laundered through our Mexican affiliates. Ships dock on the Mexican Coast, cargo travels to Monterrey by rail, where it gets loaded onto trucks and starts heading North.
 
Perotista said:
I am leery of Trump, but I would have been just as leery if Clinton had won. I trusted neither, wanted neither to be our next president, hence my vote for Johnson. I wonder how much one man, even a president, what effect he can have on this country. The federal government has grown so huge, it has become a bureaucracy run by unappointed and unelected officials. People and heads of agencies, departments, programs, projects that were there prior to any president entering office and still there after a president leaves office. That bureaucracy will continue to try to run peoples daily lives in a way the bureaucracy wants and enhance their power over the people.

Whether Clinton or Trump won, this country will still be just as divided. Some call that divide polarization. We just had a president that promised hope and change, but this country became even more divided under that hope and change. I don't see that changing. So now the half of the country that didn't have hope under Obama, has hope under Trump. The other half who had all the hope in the world under Obama now doesn't have any at all. Polarization, regardless of which half has hope and which doesn't, we are still very much divided.
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"Whether Clinton or Trump won, this country will still be just as divided."

That is THE truth.

My question is how will he be able to affect change regarding oversees jobs in the time he has. He SAYS he will tear up NAFTA, but that isn't so simple as it involves three countries, and an enormous amount of trade. Even if he rips it to shreds o inauguration day, it isn't like the automakers can simply move back to waiting factories.

And there is the no small issue of the legality. NAFTA has a section 11, but that requires notice and if I'm not mistaken compensation for losses incurred.

Canada's trade with the US has gone from 80% GDP to less than 40%, so there isn't much in there that isn't a detriment to the US save softwood lumber; and both sides have been bracing for a fight on that as the current agreement expires early in the new year....and it will only mean that we cut less forest since automation at the mills doesn't represent a lot of jobs.

Interestingly, Trump and co want to revive the Keystone extension after Obama shot it down, however Canada now opposes it.

I love politics
 
calamity said:
Yep. But, Clinton sold NAFTA as a great thing instead of railing against it. So, now he wears it. Same with G-S repeal. Instead of vetoing it, he signed it and said, this is great for Teacher's pensions, or something stupid like that.

Presidents are brands, salesmen and outright con artists who sell the game to the pleebs. See above. Trump will be the best president in ages on that. Obama was not. In fact, Obama was really unskilled at lying. He would lose big in our Saturday night poker parties. In fact, we should invite him. :)
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NAFTA was originated in the Reagan administration between Reagan and then Prime Minister Brian Mulroney as the Canada-US Trade Pact. It was expanded in the first Bush administration, and it was Clinton who claimed the "credit"

Until Trump tarted lying NAFTA was only an issue in people's heads, it's been beneficial to all three countries, most economists agree the US has benefited the most.
 
Fearandloathing said:
NAFTA was originated in the Reagan administration between Reagan and then Prime Minister Brian Mulroney as the Canada-US Trade Pact. It was expanded in the first Bush administration, and it was Clinton who claimed the "credit"

Until Trump tarted lying NAFTA was only an issue in people's heads, it's been beneficial to all three countries, most economists agree the US has benefited the most.
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:roll:

According to the Economic Policy Institute, California, Texas, Michigan and other states with high concentrations of manufacturing jobs were most affected by job loss due to NAFTA.[44] EPI economist Robert Scott estimates some 682,900 U.S. jobs have been "lost or displaced" as a result of the trade agreement.[45]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_American_Free_Trade_Agreement#Jobs
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Fearandloathing said:
"Whether Clinton or Trump won, this country will still be just as divided."

That is THE truth.

My question is how will he be able to affect change regarding oversees jobs in the time he has. He SAYS he will tear up NAFTA, but that isn't so simple as it involves three countries, and an enormous amount of trade. Even if he rips it to shreds o inauguration day, it isn't like the automakers can simply move back to waiting factories.

And there is the no small issue of the legality. NAFTA has a section 11, but that requires notice and if I'm not mistaken compensation for losses incurred.

Canada's trade with the US has gone from 80% GDP to less than 40%, so there isn't much in there that isn't a detriment to the US save softwood lumber; and both sides have been bracing for a fight on that as the current agreement expires early in the new year....and it will only mean that we cut less forest since automation at the mills doesn't represent a lot of jobs.

Interestingly, Trump and co want to revive the Keystone extension after Obama shot it down, however Canada now opposes it.

I love politics
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Politics is indeed a crazy game. A game that doesn't make much sense at times. It's a game if the other side is for something, you're against it and vice versa. The merits of something doesn't come into play for the most part. Americans love cheap goods, inexpensive goods and those goods comes from overseas. If I can buy A made in China for 5 dollars instead of buying A made in the USA for 10 or 15, most Americans will opt for made in China.

The time when almost everything an American needed, wanted was made here in the good old USA is 50 years in the past.
 
RetiredUSN said:
Yeah........... you keep posting this same comment about every other thread.

Are you autistic?
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No,I,m not autistic.

Are you autistic?

Can you chew gum and walk at the same time?If you can you're probably OK.

BTW: Merry Christmas and Happy New Year to you and all at Debate Politics

:lol:
 
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woodsman said:
The Democrats demise has been long overdue, Its existence has been halted far to long by the bias MSM and big donors such as George Soros and others. The corruption within the party with the figure heads is off the charts silly.

They went from being there for the working man to the liberal lunacy of bathroom stall allocation police. Know this,
If Trump makes some headway in the Urban centers with jobs and other we won’t see another majority (D) in the Senate, House or a sitting (D) in the oval office for many decades.
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Come back and tell us all about that after demographic change hits full force and reduces the GOP to a minor,regional,party.

"Better days are coming." ~ But not for today's out of touch,running out of time,GOP.
 
Mason66 said:
We saw the same thing before election about Hillary winning
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.
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Guess what?Clinton got more popular votes than Trump got and there will be another election in 4 years.

Wake up and smell the coffee.

Don't forget to put some hot chocolate out for Santa Claus.
 
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