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The US Senate Votes to Establish a Ministry of Truth

Redress said:
Bill was introduced before that. Your facts are in error.
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WTF? When did I mention a bill or its order? I was pointing out that some congress critters are getting upset about foreign nations "meddling" in our affairs while some congress critters wish to "meddle" in the affairs of foreign nations.
 
ttwtt78640 said:
You know that (bolded above) "fact" how? If I find an Easter egg in one place does that mean that I looked in no other places?

If I find my misplaced car keys in one place then should I not stop looking for them? ;)
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Yeah because we have all those hacked RNC and Trump emails that were released (regardless of content), oh wait we don't. But please feign ignorance all you want. The fact that foreign entities are trying to influence elections should be greatly concerning to real Americans.
 
ttwtt78640 said:
WTF? When did I mention a bill or its order? I was pointing out that some congress critters are getting upset about foreign nations "meddling" in our affairs while some congress critters wish to "meddle" in the affairs of foreign nations.
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And what I am pointing out is that this and that are basically unrelated. The issues predate that, it works to solve a different problem, and is not in response to it. See, I read the bill. It is a good idea...
 
Praxas said:
I sure as hell don't want the government to do that. You really want trump deciding what is true or not or even have influence into that?
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I want the government to act in its role as negotiator in foreign relations. I want it to do so effectively and successfully.
 
Redress said:
I want the government to act in its role as negotiator in foreign relations. I want it to do so effectively and successfully.
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And I want to win the lottery. However I know neither of those is going to happen.
 
Praxas said:
Yeah because we have all those hacked RNC and Trump emails that were released (regardless of content), oh wait we don't. But please feign ignorance all you want. The fact that foreign entities are trying to influence elections should be greatly concerning to real Americans.
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Of more concern should be what was available to be hacked (stolen?). It is amazing that the release of a (stolen?) part of Trump's tax return was seen as a public service, yet the release of (stolen?) evidence of DNC/MSM collusion is seen as an outrage.
 
Redress said:
And what I am pointing out is that this and that are basically unrelated. The issues predate that, it works to solve a different problem, and is not in response to it. See, I read the bill. It is a good idea...
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Of course the US government meddling in the affairs of a foreign nation is completely different than a foreign nation's government meddling in the affairs of the US. How silly of me to think that they were related in any way. ;)
 
First, we already have counter-intelligence organizations that both work to disprove foreign misinformation (fake news) as well as create their own fake news for distribution in our enemies countries.

Second, look up the translation for the Russian word, PRAVDA. That's what we've just established here in this country, a US version of the Russian News Agency PRAVDA. That is frightening. And it should also be frightening to anyone that values Freedom of Speech and the US Constitution, because like every other federal agency, this one will eventually become a tool for political attacks on the opposite party than the one that happens to be in power at any given moment.
 
ttwtt78640 said:
Of course the US government meddling in the affairs of a foreign nation is completely different than a foreign nation's government meddling in the affairs of the US. How silly of me to think that they were related in any way. ;)
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Why do your replies never have anything to do with what I said?
 
ttwtt78640 said:
Of more concern should be what was available to be hacked (stolen?). It is amazing that the release of a (stolen?) part of Trump's tax return was seen as a public service, yet the release of (stolen?) evidence of DNC/MSM collusion is seen as an outrage.
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I see no hacking as a public service nor do I see a country/entity hacking our political parties/candidates as a public service. It's a shame you guys approve of it.
 
Praxas said:
I see no hacking as a public service nor do I see a country/entity hacking our political parties/candidates as a public service. It's a shame you guys approve of it.
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I saw no call for a federal investigation into Trump's tax return leak. I still see no federal investigation to the DNC/MSM collusion. It's a shame that you guys approve of that. ;)
 
ttwtt78640 said:
I saw no call for a federal investigation into Trump's tax return leak. I still see no federal investigation to the DNC/MSM collusion. It's a shame that you guys approve of that. ;)
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I just said I don't approve of any hacking but you haven't condemned it. It's you who is approving of it. Do you wave around your Russian flag while cheering on putin and Wikileaks?
 
LowDown said:
Yes, I don't think I'm exaggerating here:

https://www.govtrack.us/congress/bills/114/hr5181/text

A federal government agency that will decide what information is true and what is false. It will be charged with responding to information it deems false. It will be called the "Center for Information Analysis and Response".

For now this Ministry of Truth is to be authorized only to disseminate true fact based narratives in response to facts deemed false, but I suspect that responses with more teeth are being contemplated, like shutting down web sites and other media that they deem to be spreading falsehoods.

Dragging these people into court in order to teach them about the Constitution is always tiresome and expensive, but it looks like it is becoming increasingly necessary to do so.

The problem is that none of these people knows the truth from what is false. Some of them will say that it's true that 9-11 was an inside job. Some of them will tell you that the US never landed a man on the moon. Some of them will tell you that there was an armed man on the grassy knoll. Some of them will tell you how great the Cuban people have it. They were constantly telling us the Hillary had the election in the bag. I could go on like this for a long time. Most of them will insist, without really understanding the issue, that anthropogenic global warming is a real threat, the most serious threat we face, when there is no way that we know that with any certainty.
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H.R. 5181 ... wheeeeeee!

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Praxas said:
I just said I don't approve of any hacking but you haven't condemned it. It's you who is approving of it. Do you wave around your Russian flag while cheering on putin and Wikileaks?
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Show he approved it or just more false claims from you?
 
LowDown said:
Yes, I don't think I'm exaggerating here:

https://www.govtrack.us/congress/bills/114/hr5181/text

A federal government agency that will decide what information is true and what is false. It will be charged with responding to information it deems false. It will be called the "Center for Information Analysis and Response".

For now this Ministry of Truth is to be authorized only to disseminate true fact based narratives in response to facts deemed false, but I suspect that responses with more teeth are being contemplated, like shutting down web sites and other media that they deem to be spreading falsehoods.

Dragging these people into court in order to teach them about the Constitution is always tiresome and expensive, but it looks like it is becoming increasingly necessary to do so.

The problem is that none of these people knows the truth from what is false. Some of them will say that it's true that 9-11 was an inside job. Some of them will tell you that the US never landed a man on the moon. Some of them will tell you that there was an armed man on the grassy knoll. Some of them will tell you how great the Cuban people have it. They were constantly telling us the Hillary had the election in the bag. I could go on like this for a long time. Most of them will insist, without really understanding the issue, that anthropogenic global warming is a real threat, the most serious threat we face, when there is no way that we know that with any certainty.
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That's what they called the propaganda ministry in Orwell's 1984.

They're here....!
 
ludin said:
Show he approved it or just more false claims from you?
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He's had ample time to condemn it, he hasn't. Nuff said, go try and punk someone else.
 
Sherman123 said:
How is this an abridgment of free speech under existing First Amendment jurisprudence?
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show me where government has the power to say what the truth is or know what the truth is.
tell me where the government has the power to say that this is the truth or not?

no power is given to government in this regard therefore it is unconstitutional.
I thought it was pretty obvious.
 
Praxas said:
He's had ample time to condemn it, he hasn't. Nuff said, go try and punk someone else.
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so you can't show that he approves it. that is exactly what I thought.
 
Redress said:
You are exaggerating, and flat out lying. The lie part is that, by your own link, HR 5181 has not been voted on. The exaggeration part is that it is not a ministry of truth. I wonder, do you think that foreign countries do not lie and mislead, or that we should not try and counter those lies and misleading statements?
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Go back and read my previous posts.
 
notquiteright said:
And no doubt you can't spin this fast enough.... :roll:

HR 5181 went t a HOUSEo committee back in MAY and just sat there so it PREDATES any Senate action.a
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So?

The two versions are far apart on structure of any action against foreign false flag actions.
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So what? No doubt they'll iron out the differences in conferance committee.

Now on such an action, I'm old enough to remember the Voice Of America being used to give 'our' version of the truth to the Iron Curtain and third world countries. It appears Russia and a few wildcards are attempting to push their version of the 'truth' into our country like we are some third world nation.

Do you believe we shouldn't react and deflect such intrusions? Some are very vocal in 'defending' our borders from people wanted to become citizens... can't we defend the cyber frontier from the tech version of Attila or Visigoths???

Perhaps young minds are influenced by fictional novels rather than factual history... :peace
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It's not the government's business to determine what political speech is true and what is false. The government is barred from suppressing free speech. The idea of turning these sorts of propaganda efforts against American citizens is chilling. It's easy enough to lie and say that speech you don't like is coming from the Russians. The Democrats at the Washington Post are doing it as we speak. No doubt they have some sort of consequences in mind for those they think are spreading "fake" news, like shutting them down or harassing their advertisers, and that would be unconstitutional and actionable.
 
LowDown said:
Go back and read my previous posts.
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The one where you said one thing, contradicted by your own source? I did read it, and laughed, and debunked.
 
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