US Intelligence community baffled by Trump's refusal to investigate Russian hacking

[ataraxia]

Re: US Intelligence community baffled by Trump's refusal to investigate Russian hacki

The russians did the right thing..

With the US bent over? At least I hear they like to use lube.

 

[RickJames3000]

Re: US Intelligence community baffled by Trump's refusal to investigate Russian hacki

The whole "the russians did it" meme. Started before the election even occurred. You as a Leftist ran with it as the truth.

First you use words you don't properly understand...
and now you are claiming to be both a time-traveler and a mind reader.

Do you ever attempt to substantiate your lies on here?
Why do you even participate?

 

[Risky Thicket]

Re: US Intelligence community baffled by Trump's refusal to investigate Russian hacki

In Trump's defense... well, sort of... he can convincingly claim complete ignorance. How would a President-elect who avoids daily intelligence briefings possibly know anything, ah you know, related to foreign intelligence?

 

[WCH]

Re: US Intelligence community baffled by Trump's refusal to investigate Russian hacki

First you use words you don't properly understand...
and now you are claiming to be both a time-traveler and a mind reader.

Do you ever attempt to substantiate your lies on here?
Why do you even participate?

An Internet meme is a concept or idea that spreads "virally" from one person to another via the Internet. An Internet meme could be anything from an image to an email or video file; however, the most common meme is an image of a person or animal with a funny or witty caption.

You're the sucker who fell for it.

 

[Chillfolks]

Re: US Intelligence community baffled by Trump's refusal to investigate Russian hacki

The hacking of supposedly secure servers should be investigated to see of it was a foreign government. Then prosecuted to whatever extent the international law allows. The problem I have seen is agencies say they have proof. When asked to produce it they don't claiming national security and want us to just believe then.


As to how it effected the election. If those emails were all above board then their release should not of had any impact on the election.

The reality is some of them raised troubling questions about how the DNC and media outlets may have used their power to influence the outcome of the primaries to favor Hillary. They raised more doubts that Hillary was not truthful in her explanations on how she handheld sensitive information. The leaks raised questions about her accepting foundation donations for special privileges, meetings or contracts awarded. The content and questions it raised is not Russias fault. It falls squarely on Hillary's lap. People should stop claiming it was Russia releasing the e-mails that hurt and realise it was the content and Hillary's own actions that hurt her.

But as I said this hacking does need to be investigated

 

[Fishking]

Re: US Intelligence community baffled by Trump's refusal to investigate Russian hacki

Actually the UN had confirmed the chemical weapons, didn't you know?

Of course. It's not hard to remember back to when Saddam had them, after all.

You mean the ones that Reagan supplied them with to fight the Iranians?

U.S. Secretly Gave Aid to Iraq Early in Its War Against Iran - NYTimes.com

Looks like the comment went over some heads. There was no chemical weapons or program in Iraq leading up to the invasion. Nothing but some old leftovers buried in the ground existed.

I also find the term "Intelligence community" hilarious to use when talking about senior leadership, which aren't the actual intelligence analysts and operators.

 

[Orly?]

Re: US Intelligence community baffled by Trump's refusal to investigate Russian hacki

What did they do?

Exposed truth..

 

[Orly?]

Re: US Intelligence community baffled by Trump's refusal to investigate Russian hacki

With the US bent over? At least I hear they like to use lube.

If the US is bent over asking for it they may as well oblige..

 

[beerftw]

Re: US Intelligence community baffled by Trump's refusal to investigate Russian hacki

The US intelligence community has strong evidence that there was active and very elaborate meddling in the current US presidential election by the highest reaches of the Russian government. The Russians seemed to have been strongly attracted to Trump's claims that "NATO is obsolete", and wanting to weaken or disband it. Russia would love to see the western coalition weakened or completely unraveled, as well as to plant doubts into the minds of citizens living under western style democracies about the legitimacy of their governments.

Despite the red flags and alarms raised by the intelligence community, Mr. Trump appears not only not interested in pursuing any further investigation, but it seems he would be willing to actively obstruct any attempts at further investigation. After all, why go after the guys who helped get you elected, right?

"Republican and Democratic lawmakers say they plan to investigate Russian meddling in the 2016 presidential election, including the hacking of emails from Democratic political organizations and Hillary Clinton’s campaign staff. But their efforts face a strong headwind from President-elect Donald Trump, who has continued to deny that there is proof of Russia’s involvement.

U.S. intelligence and homeland security officials said in a rare public statement in October that the computer intrusions were directed by “Russia’s senior-most officials” in an unprecedented effort to interfere with the election. For some lawmakers, significant questions remain about how the Russian government transferred stolen emails to WikiLeaks, where they were published in the homestretch of the campaign, as well as Moscow’s role in the production of fabricated news stories that have littered the internet and appear intended to mislead voters...

A spokesperson for Mr. Lindsey Graham (R., SC) said he soon would join fellow GOP Sen. John McCain (R., Ariz.) in visiting Eastern European countries whose elections Russian hackers also are believed to have targeted. U.S. intelligence analysts have closely tracked those efforts, which included a proliferation of fake news sites, and now see the U.S. election hacking as part of a pattern of a broader campaign by Russia to interfere in the democratic process in the west...

But U.S. efforts to publicly probe what intelligence officials have called an “active measures” campaign by the Kremlin face an uncertain future. The bill to create an independent commission has no GOP sponsors. And it would have to be signed by a President Trump, who this week reiterated his statement that Russia wasn’t involved in the cyber campaign.

“I don’t believe they interfered,” Mr. Trump said in an interview with Time magazine, which chose him as its Person of the Year... Privately, U.S. intelligence officials have fumed at Mr. Trump’s refusal to acknowledge what they see as proof of a Russian hand...

Officials and congressional staff said there was some urgency in disclosing further details about the hacks, if possible, before Mr. Trump is inaugurated in January, when any further investigation might actively be blocked by the whitehouse..."
Congressional Calls Grow for a Probe of Russian Hacking in U.S. Election - WSJ

Probably would not even trust any of these intelligence agencies, the ones who said saddam had wmd's, and in the past have been the literal opposite of accurate. They seem more like their job is to fabricate intelligence to support policy rather than gain it.

But in terms of russia hacking the dnc, seriously!!!! the original set of leaks came from a staffer in the dnc, and people still blame the russians. The fact that the russian govt who has the manpower to hack the pentagon if they tried hard enough but could only access the dnc and not hillaries personal emails or obamas or anyone elses, points to the leaks coming directly from the dnc, aka a disgruntled insider.

 

[ashurbanipal]

Re: US Intelligence community baffled by Trump's refusal to investigate Russian hacki

Probably would not even trust any of these intelligence agencies, the ones who said saddam had wmd's, and in the past have been the literal opposite of accurate.

It's amazing how short memories are. The CIA produced a highly qualified intelligence estimate, which stated (basically) that Iraq could possibly have WMDs, but that the sum total of evidence was, at best, inconclusive.

It was members of the Bush administration that massaged the evidence to sell the American public, and the world, on an invasion, based on spotty intelligence. All of this came out around 2006 (IIRC), and was actually brought up again this campaign cycle in connection to Jeb Bush's candidacy--the concern was precisely that Jeb's brother had knowingly led us into a costly, bloody, and unnecessary war. But I guess we are in the post-fact world, now, so it's all good.

Here's the full version of the CIA's 2002 intelligence assessment on WMD in Iraq - Business Insider

The Bush administration ignored its own report questioning Saddam’s WMD program – Rare

 

[joG]

Re: US Intelligence community baffled by Trump's refusal to investigate Russian hacki

Looks like the comment went over some heads. There was no chemical weapons or program in Iraq leading up to the invasion. Nothing but some old leftovers buried in the ground existed.

I also find the term "Intelligence community" hilarious to use when talking about senior leadership, which aren't the actual intelligence analysts and operators.

Yes. I had expected the frivolous little tradition piece from at this point. But it doesn’t make you look informed, when you repeat that misleading simplification.

 

[cpwill]

Re: US Intelligence community baffled by Trump's refusal to investigate Russian hacki

Remember when there were chemical weapons in Iraq? I remember those days.

From the 1980s straight through today? Yeah. I remember them.

 

[cpwill]

Re: US Intelligence community baffled by Trump's refusal to investigate Russian hacki

Looks like the comment went over some heads. There was no chemical weapons or program in Iraq leading up to the invasion. Nothing but some old leftovers buried in the ground existed.

Oh. So there were chemical weapons, but since they were in underground bunkers, they don't count. That's neat.

 

[cpwill]

Re: US Intelligence community baffled by Trump's refusal to investigate Russian hacki

It's amazing how short memories are. The CIA produced a highly qualified intelligence estimate, which stated (basically) that Iraq could possibly have WMDs, but that the sum total of evidence was, at best, inconclusive.

No, and No. The NIE that was produced was an incredibly rushed job because of the timetable involved. Post Mortem analysis has consistently concluded that it overstepped in terms of levels of surety, partially as a result of that. If you will peruse the ICD (Intelligence Community Directives) 200 series (Dealing with Analysis), you will find lots of lessons learned from that experience.

 

[cpwill]

Re: US Intelligence community baffled by Trump's refusal to investigate Russian hacki

Probably would not even trust any of these intelligence agencies, the ones who said saddam had wmd's, and in the past have been the literal opposite of accurate

Saddam did have WMD's, making them literally accurate. In this case (dealing with identifying cyber actors) they are also likely literally accurate.

They seem more like their job is to fabricate intelligence to support policy rather than gain it.

I don't think you have any idea what you are talking about. The people who take analysis and twist it tend to be responding to political direction. For example, The Obama Administration was not interested in hearing about this "ISIS" group back before they took over half of Iraq.

But in terms of russia hacking the dnc, seriously!!!! the original set of leaks came from a staffer in the dnc, and people still blame the russians.

The IC says that they have seen the Russians conduct cyber activity for this purpose. That does not preclude other actors in the space, only that they have seen the Russians involved. I imagine that an analysis of the relative sourcing of all the documents on WikiLeaks would be a rather large project, with lower certainty levels as a matter of course than individual cases, which can be shown more conclusively.

The fact that the russian govt who has the manpower to hack the pentagon if they tried hard enough but could only access the dnc and not hillaries personal emails or obamas or anyone elses, points to the leaks coming directly from the dnc, aka a disgruntled insider.

Why would the Russians burn access to Pentagon's NIPR net if they had it?

 

[MaggieD]

Re: US Intelligence community baffled by Trump's refusal to investigate Russian hacki

The US intelligence community has strong evidence that there was active and very elaborate meddling in the current US presidential election by the highest reaches of the Russian government. The Russians seemed to have been strongly attracted to Trump's claims that "NATO is obsolete", and wanting to weaken or disband it. Russia would love to see the western coalition weakened or completely unraveled, as well as to plant doubts into the minds of citizens living under western style democracies about the legitimacy of their governments.

Despite the red flags and alarms raised by the intelligence community, Mr. Trump appears not only not interested in pursuing any further investigation, but it seems he would be willing to actively obstruct any attempts at further investigation. After all, why go after the guys who helped get you elected, right?

"Republican and Democratic lawmakers say they plan to investigate Russian meddling in the 2016 presidential election, including the hacking of emails from Democratic political organizations and Hillary Clinton’s campaign staff. But their efforts face a strong headwind from President-elect Donald Trump, who has continued to deny that there is proof of Russia’s involvement.

U.S. intelligence and homeland security officials said in a rare public statement in October that the computer intrusions were directed by “Russia’s senior-most officials” in an unprecedented effort to interfere with the election. For some lawmakers, significant questions remain about how the Russian government transferred stolen emails to WikiLeaks, where they were published in the homestretch of the campaign, as well as Moscow’s role in the production of fabricated news stories that have littered the internet and appear intended to mislead voters...

A spokesperson for Mr. Lindsey Graham (R., SC) said he soon would join fellow GOP Sen. John McCain (R., Ariz.) in visiting Eastern European countries whose elections Russian hackers also are believed to have targeted. U.S. intelligence analysts have closely tracked those efforts, which included a proliferation of fake news sites, and now see the U.S. election hacking as part of a pattern of a broader campaign by Russia to interfere in the democratic process in the west...

But U.S. efforts to publicly probe what intelligence officials have called an “active measures” campaign by the Kremlin face an uncertain future. The bill to create an independent commission has no GOP sponsors. And it would have to be signed by a President Trump, who this week reiterated his statement that Russia wasn’t involved in the cyber campaign.

“I don’t believe they interfered,” Mr. Trump said in an interview with Time magazine, which chose him as its Person of the Year... Privately, U.S. intelligence officials have fumed at Mr. Trump’s refusal to acknowledge what they see as proof of a Russian hand...

Officials and congressional staff said there was some urgency in disclosing further details about the hacks, if possible, before Mr. Trump is inaugurated in January, when any further investigation might actively be blocked by the whitehouse..."
Congressional Calls Grow for a Probe of Russian Hacking in U.S. Election - WSJ

So the POTUS can give the FBI a call and tell them to quash any investigation into Russian hacking? Why would he do that? Or the only way to investigate the possibility is thru congressional hearings? Sounds like another boondoggle of a time waster. Or should this be in the Conspiracy Forum?

 

[ashurbanipal]

Re: US Intelligence community baffled by Trump's refusal to investigate Russian hacki

No, and No. The NIE that was produced was an incredibly rushed job because of the timetable involved. Post Mortem analysis has consistently concluded that it overstepped in terms of levels of surety, partially as a result of that. If you will peruse the ICD (Intelligence Community Directives) 200 series (Dealing with Analysis), you will find lots of lessons learned from that experience.

I assume you can provide some evidence of this? Literally every news story I've ever read on the matter agrees with what I posted. Reading the 200 series, I see exactly nothing that supports your claim. Among one of the links I posted had the assessment actually provided the administration, and my summary, though quite simplified, is correct.

 

[Fishking]

Re: US Intelligence community baffled by Trump's refusal to investigate Russian hacki

Oh. So there were chemical weapons, but since they were in underground bunkers, they don't count. That's neat.

No, morel like rusted out shells buried in the sand. There weren't mobile chemical factories, with some kind of well-developed chemical weapons program, like what was passed off.

 

[CMPancake]

Re: US Intelligence community baffled by Trump's refusal to investigate Russian hacki

The russians did the right thing..

How treasonous of you to outright condone a foreign nation influencing US politics via espionage.

 

[Fledermaus]

Re: US Intelligence community baffled by Trump's refusal to investigate Russian hacki

Well yeah, the article says that. But it seems they feel like they are in a real race against time to do so.

"Officials and congressional staff said there was some urgency in disclosing further details about the hacks, if possible, before Mr. Trump is inaugurated in January, when any further investigation might actively be blocked by the whitehouse..."

1. Not in office. Can't investigate anything.

2. Might.

 

[cpwill]

Re: US Intelligence community baffled by Trump's refusal to investigate Russian hacki

No, morel like rusted out shells buried in the sand. There weren't mobile chemical factories, with some kind of well-developed chemical weapons program, like what was passed off.

Yup - we were incorrect on the live production chains. We were not incorrect on the (banned, btw) WMD's. Ditto on Saddam having illegal missiles.

 

[cpwill]

Re: US Intelligence community baffled by Trump's refusal to investigate Russian hacki

I assume you can provide some evidence of this?

:shrug: I've gone over the NIE and the judgments from it professionally, on multiple occasions. It's considered an excellent training aid. The NIE process typically has a long-lead, designed to create an integrated IC product. The NIE on Iraqi WMD was a rushed job, and so was basically done out of the CIA senior analyst office, with the rest of the IC given a quickie concur/non-concur option (as opposed to a full peer review. INR non-concurred on some of the judgments regarding the Nuclear Program, but other than that, everyone rogered up). I sat in a class taught by the guy who helped set up the Sherman Kent School (that was pretty cool), our materials were the NIE itself, the process itself, the information on which the assessments were met, etc.

So no, having gotten it rather from the Horse's mouth, I didn't bother to look up a magazine article saying that the NIE had been a rush job. That being said it's not exactly hard to find:

Another example of government requests causing incorrect information occurred during the publication of the October 2002 NIE. Intelligence community officials did not properly analyse the NIE because it bypassed key stages when being drafted. It was not “submitted to intelligence community peers . . . for review.” The Senate Select Committee on Intelligence (SSCI), an organisation dedicated to overseeing the American intelligence community, concluded that the NIE was essentially a “rush job.” The intelligence community fast-tracked the NIE, thus causing it to be improperly analysed...​

Literally every news story I've ever read on the matter agrees with what I posted. Reading the 200 series, I see exactly nothing that supports your claim

That's pretty quick. You read the 200 series and didn't learn a single thing about analysis? May I suggest taking a slower look at ICD 203?

 

[Carleen]

Re: US Intelligence community baffled by Trump's refusal to investigate Russian hacki

Probably belongs in Conspiracy forum

But overall, he's not even President yet. If there are serious concerns, Obama can start an investigation before he's out of office.

And he has as of today.

 

[jimbo]

Re: US Intelligence community baffled by Trump's refusal to investigate Russian hacki

Then why are we waiting around for Trump? Let's do this!

According to what I read, Obama has done just that.

https://www.theatlantic.com/technol...ll-review-of-election-related-hacking/510149/

Nothing will come of it. That other countries spy on us and we on them is a foregone conclusion.

 

[ashurbanipal]

Re: US Intelligence community baffled by Trump's refusal to investigate Russian hacki

Now wait a minute...it sounds like now you're making a different claim than you were before. As I understand the person to whom I was responding, they didn't trust the intelligence services who are now saying there's evidence that Russia may have influenced the election through hacking, precisely because those same intelligence services wrongly told the Bush administration, and by extension the American people and the world, that Iraq had weapons of mass destruction. By "had weapons of mass destruction," we're to understand basically the narrative the administration sold everyone: that Iraq was sitting on vast stockpiles of chemical and biological weapons, and had actively looked into purchasing materials for nuclear weapons. These, in turn, were all too likely to be given to Al Qaeda so that they could be used to perpetrate terror attacks. That is the narrative that took us to war.

I was pointing out that this narrative did not come from the CIA. It came from the Bush administration, who massaged and manipulated information in a highly qualified report, in order to manufacture this narrative. Ergo, the argument that we shouldn't trust intelligence agencies because they "got it wrong" about Iraq is just a bad argument. (Incidentally, it would be a bad argument even if the CIA had originate the narrative).

I've gone over the NIE and the judgments from it professionally, on multiple occasions. It's considered an excellent training aid. The NIE process typically has a long-lead, designed to create an integrated IC product. The NIE on Iraqi WMD was a rushed job, and so was basically done out of the CIA senior analyst office, with the rest of the IC given a quickie concur/non-concur option (as opposed to a full peer review. INR non-concurred on some of the judgments regarding the Nuclear Program, but other than that, everyone rogered up). I sat in a class taught by the guy who helped set up the Sherman Kent School (that was pretty cool), our materials were the NIE itself, the process itself, the information on which the assessments were met, etc.

So no, having gotten it rather from the Horse's mouth, I didn't bother to look up a magazine article saying that the NIE had been a rush job. That being said it's not exactly hard to find:

I posted some links, but my point was that that you hadn't referenced any evidence that supports your claim, while I had posted evidence that supports mine. Now, if you can explain clearly why the 200 series shows that the same intelligence agencies who are now saying the Russians influenced the election are also the ones who came up with the narrative supporting the war, I'll be happy to take a look with an open mind.

Another example of government requests causing incorrect information occurred during the publication of the October 2002 NIE. Intelligence community officials did not properly analyse the NIE because it bypassed key stages when being drafted. It was not “submitted to intelligence community peers . . . for review.” The Senate Select Committee on Intelligence (SSCI), an organisation dedicated to overseeing the American intelligence community, concluded that the NIE was essentially a “rush job.” The intelligence community fast-tracked the NIE, thus causing it to be improperly analysed...

Two questions: who rushed it? Why does it matter anyway? The content of the report didn't support the narrative of the Bush administration.

That's pretty quick. You read the 200 series and didn't learn a single thing about analysis? May I suggest taking a slower look at ICD 203?

I'm all for careful reading, but I work in a job that requires me to read a lot of dense material quickly and understand it. Nothing that you posted had anything directly to do with learning about analysis. I was reading to understand and evaluate your claim, which makes the job of reading a lot easier. Now again, if you want to explain, I'll be happy to pay attention.