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Narcissist-in-Chief: A Psychological Take on a Political Reality[W:53]

Re: Narcissist-in-Chief: A Psychological Take on a Political Reality

Geoist said:
As he exhibits every characteristic my mother-in-law had before she died (she was a narcissist and made my wife's life absolutely miserable during her first 22 years), there is no doubt in my book.
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So if I'm reading this right, you are saying you know Trump as well as your mother in law to make the determination that he's a narcissist?

Surely not.
 
Re: Narcissist-in-Chief: A Psychological Take on a Political Reality

Captain America said:
I honestly believe that anyone who doesn't acknowledge Trump's obvious narcissism is either an out right liar, engaging purposeful denial or dumber than a box of rocks. Neither of those reasons are flattering.

I just want to give them their sign.

Heres-Your-sign.gif
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I'm not saying he is, and I'm not saying that he isn't.

What I'm asking is how can we make that determination with only his public statements and persona, as this is only 1/2 of the story. I think it fair to say that if you make that call, it's only on 1/2 of the picture.
 
Re: Narcissist-in-Chief: A Psychological Take on a Political Reality

eohrnberger said:
So if I'm reading this right, you are saying you know Trump as well as your mother in law to make the determination that he's a narcissist?

Surely not.
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As I said before, you don't need to be a doctor to know your leg is broken when the bone is sticking through the skin. Trump's narcissism is blatantly obvious.
 
Re: Narcissist-in-Chief: A Psychological Take on a Political Reality

Geoist said:
Except narcissism is not some "vague label." It is a diagnosable mental disorder.
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Except that mental diagnoses tend to be vague labels (that's the case even with many medical diagnoses which don't have a significant mental component). Some clinical psychologists and psychiatrists would like to have us believe that they can make reliable diagnoses of mental disorders based on clear criteria and boundaries, but that's simply not the case. That's not to say that their work is useless, but we should recognize its substantial limitations.
 
Re: Narcissist-in-Chief: A Psychological Take on a Political Reality

LessBiased? said:
Except that mental diagnoses tend to be vague labels (that's the case even with many medical diagnoses which don't have a significant mental component). Some clinical psychologists and psychiatrists would like to have us believe that they can make reliable diagnoses of mental disorders based on clear criteria and boundaries, but that's simply not the case. That's not to say that their work is useless, but we should recognize its substantial limitations.
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It is true no two cases are exactly alike, but they still carry common characteristics. I can say from personal experience, narcissistic personality disorder is very real.
 
Re: Narcissist-in-Chief: A Psychological Take on a Political Reality

Geoist said:
As I said before, you don't need to be a doctor to know your leg is broken when the bone is sticking through the skin. Trump's narcissism is blatantly obvious.
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You are free to hold that opinion, based on less than 1/2 the information needed to do so conclusively.
 
Re: Narcissist-in-Chief: A Psychological Take on a Political Reality

eohrnberger said:
So if I'm reading this right, you are saying you know Trump as well as your mother in law to make the determination that he's a narcissist?

Surely not.
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The best way I know how to explain it is like this.

None of us here are physicians or psychiatrist's. Nobody can really speak about any of the many topics we discuss here with any credential's to convince a jury.

All we can speak of is our own personal observations. Having observed Trump for over a year, non-stop (thanks media,) and listening to the things he has said. His body language. His demeanor. It leads me to believe he personifies everything that I have been told narcissism is.

But I'm no doctor. I have no credentials. I just know what I know. I just know what I hear and see.

For example. Look at this photo. From what you know and what you have observed in your lifetime, what do you deduce from looking at the picture?

I-can-count-to-potato.jpg


And what if someone told you that you don't know what you're talking about because you are not a qualified physician?

When some defends Trump's narcissism, it's like they are trying to piss on my head and convince me it's raining.
 
Re: Narcissist-in-Chief: A Psychological Take on a Political Reality

Geoist said:
It is true no two cases are exactly alike, but they still carry common characteristics. I can say from personal experience, narcissistic personality disorder is very real.
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Your MIL and her characteristics were real. Some people will have similar characteristics, to various degrees. But diagnoses, defined by characteristics aggregated into clusters which have fuzzy boundaries, aren't handed to us by reality and discovered by us; clinicians 'make them up' based on what they perceive to be useful in their clinical practice. Accordingly, these diagnoses change, merge, subdivide, etc. over time, as perspectives change.

See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reification_(fallacy)
 
Re: Narcissist-in-Chief: A Psychological Take on a Political Reality

eohrnberger said:
You are free to hold that opinion, based on less than 1/2 the information needed to do so conclusively.
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So you think those 3 AM rants are just Trump's way of 'joking around?' I really don't think so, but you are entitled to your opinion, as well.
 
Re: Narcissist-in-Chief: A Psychological Take on a Political Reality

eohrnberger said:
I'm not saying he is, and I'm not saying that he isn't.

What I'm asking is how can we make that determination with only his public statements and persona, as this is only 1/2 of the story. I think it fair to say that if you make that call, it's only on 1/2 of the picture.
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Okay, if he is only a narcissist 1/2 the time when he is in the public eye and someone entirely different on the other half, what does that make him? A liar. (No, wait. We already know that. It's his claim to fame.) Multiple personality disorder? Snake oil salesman? Help me out here.
 
Re: Narcissist-in-Chief: A Psychological Take on a Political Reality

Captain America said:
The best way I know how to explain it is like this.

None of us here are physicians or psychiatrist's. Nobody can really speak about any of the many topics we discuss here with any credential's to convince a jury.

All we can speak of is our own personal observations. Having observed Trump for over a year, non-stop (thanks media,) and listening to the things he has said. His body language. His demeanor. It leads me to believe he personifies everything that I have been told narcissism is.

But I'm no doctor. I have no credentials. I just know what I know. I just know what I hear and see.

For example. Look at this photo. From what you know and what you have observed in your lifetime, what do you deduce from looking at the picture?

I-can-count-to-potato.jpg


And what if someone told you that you don't know what you're talking about because you are not a qualified physician?

When some defends Trump's narcissism, it's like they are trying to piss on my head and convince me it's raining.
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No, I'm not pissing. All I'm saying is that you are basing your opinion on less than 1/2 the information, but you are free to do so.
 
Re: Narcissist-in-Chief: A Psychological Take on a Political Reality

Captain America said:
Okay, if he is only a narcissist 1/2 the time when he is in the public eye and someone entirely different on the other half, what does that make him? A liar. (No, wait. We already know that. It's his claim to fame.) Multiple personality disorder? Snake oil salesman? Help me out here.
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People don't behave differently privately than when in the public eye?
No, that's not correct. People do behave differently, and I'm sure you would too.

I dunno. Seems you think that he's randomly firing off and reacting at any one time, where we don't really know if that's case or not either.
There may be specific purpose to his actions. We don't really know, do we?
 
Re: Narcissist-in-Chief: A Psychological Take on a Political Reality

LessBiased? said:
Whatever he is, it did enable him to become a multibillionaire with an array of businesses, win the nomination (despite the Rep party not fully supporting him), and then win the election (despite nearly everyone predicting an easy win for Hillary). I don't think that kind of success is just a matter of luck. IMO, his detractors would be unwise to underestimate his skill set and dismiss him by easily pinning a vague label like "narcissist" on him.
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I disagree completely with your analysis, because:

1) It's questionable whether he even IS a multibillionaire, and besides, it's very easy to stay wealthy when you start out with $40 million from your family.
2) He won the nomination by parroting the talking points of the alt-right: nothing more. Their media machine has been cultivating followers for several decades now.

Finally, there's a difference between saying that someone has NPD and "dismissing" them. Plenty of otherwise accomplished people have various psychiatric problems.
 
Re: Narcissist-in-Chief: A Psychological Take on a Political Reality

DifferentDrummr said:
I disagree completely with your analysis, because:

1) It's questionable whether he even IS a multibillionaire, and besides, it's very easy to stay wealthy when you start out with $40 million from your family.
2) He won the nomination by parroting the talking points of the alt-right: nothing more. Their media machine has been cultivating followers for several decades now.

Finally, there's a difference between saying that someone has NPD and "dismissing" them. Plenty of otherwise accomplished people have various psychiatric problems.
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Forbes estimated about $4B. Trump said it was higher, and coming up with a valuation on such a large array of holdings isn't easy, but I'm willing to believe it would be in the billions.

The amount of money he started with is disputed, but even if it's $40M, multiplying that by a factor of ~100x isn't easy, and I suspect that many would have largely squandered the money.

I'm not saying that his wealth and achievements aren't exaggerated. Given the importance image has had for him, I think that's likely. But that doesn't mean there isn't a lot of real accomplishment there.

As far as how he won the nomination, I didn't closely follow the Rep primaries, so I'll refrain from offering an opinion.

I agree that people can achieve a lot despite psychiatric problems, maybe even to some extent because of those problems, in some cases. And I agree that ascribing some narcissistic traits to Trump may be valid. But I'm reluctant to label him as having a clinical "disorder" as a means of dismissing him, and the article seems to have that agenda.
 
Re: Narcissist-in-Chief: A Psychological Take on a Political Reality

eohrnberger said:
People don't behave differently privately than when in the public eye?
No, that's not correct. People do behave differently, and I'm sure you would too.

I dunno. Seems you think that he's randomly firing off and reacting at any one time, where we don't really know if that's case or not either.
There may be specific purpose to his actions. We don't really know, do we?
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I'll give you that. Regardless of the Donald's craziness, he does appear to be crazy like a fox. We may never know how that whacko brain of his works. All we know now is that it does work.

I suppose we will just have to go on blind faith, given the way things are, and just hope for the best.
 
Re: Narcissist-in-Chief: A Psychological Take on a Political Reality

Captain America said:
I'll give you that. Regardless of the Donald's craziness, he does appear to be crazy like a fox. We may never know how that whacko brain of his works. All we know now is that it does work.

I suppose we will just have to go on blind faith, given the way things are, and just hope for the best.
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I have no blind faith in Trump. I stand by my post when the election was called in his favor (oh about 3:00 AM EST that morning).

Dear Mr. President-Elect Trump,
Congratulations on your presidential election win.

Don't **** it up.
​

I still stand by that. He'd better not **** it up.
 
Re: Narcissist-in-Chief: A Psychological Take on a Political Reality

eohrnberger said:
I have no blind faith in Trump. I stand by my post when the election was called in his favor (oh about 3:00 AM EST that morning).

Dear Mr. President-Elect Trump,
Congratulations on your presidential election win.

Don't **** it up.
​

I still stand by that. He'd better not **** it up.
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I agree 100%. You are spot on. Don't **** it up.

But, I bet you also, like me, realize the potential possibility's and the level of devastation someone like The Donald could create.

He will either Make America Great Again or he will **** it up beyond repair.

Think positive.
 
Re: Narcissist-in-Chief: A Psychological Take on a Political Reality

Captain America said:
I agree 100%. You are spot on. Don't **** it up.

But, I bet you also, like me, realize the potential possibility's and the level of devastation someone like The Donald could create.

He will either Make America Great Again or he will **** it up beyond repair.

Think positive.
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Meh. We've had 8 years of Obama doing, well, whatever the hell he was doing, mostly stirring up racial strife and bending federal laws from what I can see. I don't see Trump doing the same.

Must be something to that, as his confidence ratings have gone up in the between time.

Half of Americans More Confident in Trump Since Election
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[h=4]Story Highlights[/h]
  • 51% in U.S. say they are "more confident" in Trump's ability to serve
  • Similar to post-election confidence in Bill Clinton, George W. Bush
  • 19% of Hillary Clinton supporters more confident in Trump since election


WASHINGTON, D.C. -- Fifty-one percent of U.S. adults say they are "more confident" in President-elect Donald Trump's ability to serve as president based on his statements and actions over the past few days. The percentage "more confident" in Trump a few days after his election is similar to ratings when Bill Clinton and George W. Bush won their respective elections in 1992 and 2000.
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Even some of Hillary's supporters are more confident in Trump!! :eek:
(That must be some sort of violation of the liberal code or something!)
 
Re: Narcissist-in-Chief: A Psychological Take on a Political Reality

eohrnberger said:
Meh. We've had 8 years of Obama doing, well, whatever the hell he was doing, mostly stirring up racial strife and bending federal laws from what I can see. I don't see Trump doing the same.

Must be something to that, as his confidence ratings have gone up in the between time.



Even some of Hillary's supporters are more confident in Trump!! :eek:
(That must be some sort of violation of the liberal code or something!)
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Well, everybody knows how I feel about the Hildabeast. But I too am more confident of the Donald than I was in the past. You can count me among them.

Like I said, think positive. I see nothing good coming out of thinking otherwise.
 
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