Left v Right, Right v Left.

That's all that I see anymore. For many people you are "either/or". And usually based upon the issue that they happen to be having a discussion with you more often. And if they believe you to be on the other side of the aisle then you are scum. Something which will no doubt be claimed as not being true....at least for them...as its too generalized and there are bound to be people that don't think that way. And people DO love being contrary just to be contrary. But lately, reading these forums, watching the news media, that's all that I see anymore. Whether others recognize it or not.

For those that consider themselves Lefties anyone on the Right are automatically racist, misogynist, bigotted. (and a whole slew of other invectives)

For those that consider themselves Righties anyone on the Left are automatically socialists, communists, crybabies. (and a whole slew of other invectives)

But what about Independents? Doesn't matter. If you're truly an Independent those on either side of the aisle will still consider you as being on the other side of the aisle if you happen to be discussing against their position. With all that applies.

Take me for instance. I truly am an Independent. I look at the issues and make my argument based on those issues and those issues alone. I'm quite willing to admit when I'm wrong or when my particular ideology changes. Such as my stance on legalizing marijuana which changed some years back. Now I am for legalizing marijuana on a political stance whereas before I was against it.

But that aside I have other positions which I have not changed my mind about. For instance I still fully believe that an abortion should be up to the woman and should not be regulated beyond that which ensures both safety and making sure that it is available to women because that is their choice. Men should not have a say in what women do with thier bodies. For this I am considered a lefty. A murderer by those on the Right that are pro-life.

Another position that I have is that I am pro-Right to Association with who you choose to. This means that I believe that businesses should have the ability to choose to serve, or not serve, on even the dumbest of reasons like skin color or gender or sexual orientation. For this I am considered a righty. A racist, misogynistic, bigot by those on the left.

Continued...

Both done automatically. With no discussion as to WHY I hold those opinions. Well, at least not in the way that might actually get them to understand. Why? Because they don't care. Or more precisely, they don't care to know the other side of the aisle. It's simply "If you hold position X which is against my position of Y then you personally are scum".

I would bet that no one here knows my personal opinion of these matters. That while I am pro-choice politically I am personally against abortion and would not condone my wife getting one unless it was to save her life. It would probably even be a marriage breaker. That while I am pro-right to association I am personally against a business conducting their affairs in a racist, bigotted, or misogynistic way and would boycot such a business...quite possibly with signs in front of their store if I had even the slightest of chance to do so.

You see, to me being an Independent is not about my personal beliefs on issues. At least not when it comes to how this country should be. It's about what is right and what is wrong for how the country should be. It's about optimizing our Individual Rights against what I believe tyranny to be. I fully believe that both the Right side of the aisle and the Left side of the aisle has both good points, and bad points. That is why I am neither a Democrat, or a Republican. Neither Green party, or Constitutionalist. I AM Independent.

Ever since Obama was elected I have seen the division grow. Between left and right. Right and left. And with this past election season with Trump and Hillary I have seen that division grow to what seems to be epic proportions. It has gotten to the point where if you are on the other side (no matter the issue) then you are scum. You have no redeeming qualities. No one can have a disagreement anymore that ends in mutual acceptance of "agree to disagree, lets part affably".

It is my belief that True Independents like me are actually getting rarer as we go along. Oh sure, there are many more out there claiming to be independent. But only because the party that they once were a part of is no longer acting in the way that they believe it should. Not out of any real change based on issues. Thier stance on that is the same as it always has been. Thier stance which isn't totally based on individual issues. If their party of choice went back to being what they think it should be they'd sign back into it in a New York Minute. Which to me shows that its not totally issue based. But a need to be a part of something where others agree with them. Whether they realize it or not.

Anyways, just my 2 cents on the current state of affairs. Take it how you will. I doubt I'll be responding to any replies as this is just something that I needed to say.

I was a democrat for many years, (voted Carter) and then switched over to republican party for many years. I quit the GOP the day the Iraq war began.

I now have little respect for either party as a whole.

There are some outstanding individual members of the two main parties, but they are too outnumbered by hard line partisans to make any real difference.

The hard liners get all the face time with the media because "strife and controversy" easily sells to all the simpleton voters among us. The average person has little time to devote to politics because many of them are working their azzes off and still only one or two paychecks away from "palookaville". So, they end up focusing on the media talking points, hearsay, and other political gossip.

Kal'Stang said:

That's all that I see anymore. For many people you are "either/or". And usually based upon the issue that they happen to be having a discussion with you more often. And if they believe you to be on the other side of the aisle then you are scum. Something which will no doubt be claimed as not being true....at least for them...as its too generalized and there are bound to be people that don't think that way. And people DO love being contrary just to be contrary. But lately, reading these forums, watching the news media, that's all that I see anymore. Whether others recognize it or not.


For those that consider themselves Lefties anyone on the Right are automatically racist, misogynist, bigotted. (and a whole slew of other invectives)

For those that consider themselves Righties anyone on the Left are automatically socialists, communists, crybabies. (and a whole slew of other invectives)

But what about Independents? Doesn't matter. If you're truly an Independent those on either side of the aisle will still consider you as being on the other side of the aisle if you happen to be discussing against their position. With all that applies.

Take me for instance. I truly am an Independent. I look at the issues and make my argument based on those issues and those issues alone. I'm quite willing to admit when I'm wrong or when my particular ideology changes. Such as my stance on legalizing marijuana which changed some years back. Now I am for legalizing marijuana on a political stance whereas before I was against it.

But that aside I have other positions which I have not changed my mind about. For instance I still fully believe that an abortion should be up to the woman and should not be regulated beyond that which ensures both safety and making sure that it is available to women because that is their choice. Men should not have a say in what women do with thier bodies. For this I am considered a lefty. A murderer by those on the Right that are pro-life.

Another position that I have is that I am pro-Right to Association with who you choose to. This means that I believe that businesses should have the ability to choose to serve, or not serve, on even the dumbest of reasons like skin color or gender or sexual orientation. For this I am considered a righty. A racist, misogynistic, bigot by those on the left.

Continued...

Click to expand...

I know you probably didn't mean it this way, but that is not always the rule. I consider myself a leftist, and I don't think conservatives are all racist, mysoginistic, evil bigots.

Because I know damn well that ain't true, and making a blanket generalization about the Left or the Right is just a dumb thing to do.

I will call them communists when I see them parading and holding a communist flag up high, or admire and have Che posters and T-shirts as they protest.

Crybabies? yeah, I have seen both sides do that. The left are the ones currently wetting their diapers, but the right has done it a few times too.
Let me qualify...being a crybaby, TO ME, is when you refuse to accept a legal result that went through the system.
Currently they "crybabying" is by the left for their refusal to accept the results of the 2016 election. Instead, they burn, riot and destroy.

The right did it recently with gay marriage.

One major difference though, each and every time the right loses, they DO NOT burn, riot, and destroy.
Only the left does that when they do not get their way, or dislike the results of something like a court verdict.

This is a simple and true fact.

BOTH claim moral authority, but more and more are seeing it is the left that uses violence as an option.

Kal'Stang said:

And with this past election season with Trump and Hillary I have seen that division grow to what seems to be epic proportions. It has gotten to the point where if you are on the other side (no matter the issue) then you are scum. You have no redeeming qualities. No one can have a disagreement anymore that ends in mutual acceptance of "agree to disagree, lets part affably".

Click to expand...

This division has come about because, in this election in particular, both candidates were viewed by those who opposed them as scum.

Conservatives think Clinton is a conniving monster who likes to see ambassadors die and will gleefully leak state secrets via private email servers.

Liberals see Trump as a *****-grabbing sociopath and con-artist who treats women and minorities as second class citizens.

They feel that anyone who could support the monster from the opposite side must be a monster as well. This election was all about hatred and fear. Of course it's going to result in this kind of animosity.

Tucker Case said:

This division has come about because, in this election in particular, both candidates were viewed by those who opposed them as scum.

Conservatives think Clinton is a conniving monster who likes to see ambassadors die and will gleefully leak state secrets via private email servers.

Liberals see Trump as a *****-grabbing sociopath and con-artist who treats women and minorities as second class citizens.

They feel that anyone who could support the monster from the opposite side must be a monster as well. This election was all about hatred and fear. Of course it's going to result in this kind of animosity.

Click to expand...

Perhaps the solution is to outlaw political parties entirely.

Kal'Stang said:

That's all that I see anymore. For many people you are "either/or". And usually based upon the issue that they happen to be having a discussion with you more often. And if they believe you to be on the other side of the aisle then you are scum.

Click to expand...

We are in an era of identity politics. The political identifiers of the past no longer exist, as the messaging isn't designed to communicate disagreement, it's designed to destroy the opposition. Labels have become meaningless. I'm a registered Republican, but I don't really know what that means anymore, as the definition is warped and stretched at the whim of whoever is trying to denigrate it. Conservative? Liberal? Who knows what those are. Identity politics doesn't need to define, it just needs to assign an enemy to rail against.

I fully believe this is being done by design, and is plotted and strategized by some very powerful forces.

It wasn't until someone as bombastic as Trump showed up, that the people in the crosshairs of this effort to silence and remove, felt safe enough to speak up and push back.

And that is where we find our self now. And one side of the aisle is in a panic as to what to do about it. The labels don't seem to be working.

fmw said:

Perhaps the solution is to outlaw political parties entirely.

Click to expand...

Won't make a difference. Neither side was attacking based on party politics, they were attacking based on assumptions about character.

fmw said:

Perhaps the solution is to outlaw political parties entirely.

Click to expand...

Which would be unconstitutional regarding Freedom of association.

TheGoverness said:

I know you probably didn't mean it this way, but that is not always the rule. I consider myself a leftist, and I don't think conservatives are all racist, mysoginistic, evil bigots.

Because I know damn well that ain't true, and making a blanket generalization about the Left or the Right is just a dumb thing to do.

Click to expand...

They aren't, but they certainly have been attracting the worst of the them now that Trump is their boi.