Donald Trump needs to be more clear on his position on the Alt Right

ataraxia said:

"Trump has denounced the alt-right, arrive have been linked in this thread. What else do you want?"

Not having the head of the leading Alt Right Newspaper as his top whitehouse advisor. Talk is cheap.

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So you're just jumping to conclusions because you dont like the initial conditions, OK.

Also, learn to use the quote button.

"You can start by explaining how the factual expression that the Mexican Government is not invested in preventing illegal immigration and that indeed many of those coming into this country illegally from Mexico ARE rapists and murderers is bigoted and not just an uncomfortable reality. "

The facts are that the crime rate among illegal immigrants is lower than that in the general population of the United States:
The Mythical Connection Between Immigrants and Crime - WSJ

"Perhaps the desperate on the left need to step back for a minute and ponder the total shellacking that just occurred on November 8. Perhaps they will begin to get a clue what voters are concerned with. "

The Russians elect Putin, the Palestinians elect Hamas, the Iranians elect Ahmadinejad, the Turks elect Erdogan, the Brits choose Brexit. It doesn't mean any of these are very good choices. The Americans just made a similar choice with Trump.

Mach said:

I'm not a Trump supporter Slyfox696

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My apologies, I actually confused you with the poster Mac77. Not only do I regret confusing you with another poster, I regret confusing you with that poster.

My apologies on my mix-up. However, the Trump supporter statement aside, my post is still accurate. Your response to what I said is not related to what I said.

Liberals are embarrassing themselves right now more than usual, its unfortunate. You wonder why they lost the election, they are just all over the ****ing place.

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I'm not a liberal...while I didn't generalize you, you seemed to have just done so to me.

soot said:

:2razz:

From the sound of it you were advising the (losing) Clinton campaign.

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I was making a point. But yes, Clinton's campaign was poorly run.

VanceMack said:

You can start by explaining how the factual expression that the Mexican Government is not invested in preventing illegal immigration and that indeed many of those coming into this country illegally from Mexico ARE rapists and murderers is bigoted

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I already have. Multiple times in fact. You could start by reading in one of the several posts in which I've done so.

for some weird reason divert your argument re bigotry into Megan Kelley.

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I have given multiple examples of how Trump has supported bigotry. If you don't understand the argument, that's a you problem.

This is the problem with far too many who support the political right. They honestly don't understand why their positions are offensive to such large swaths of people (and to avoid the unnecessary partisan response, I'm well aware many supporters on the left don't understand why their message turns off so many either). Do you really think lumping Hispanics in with rapists and murderers isn't bigoted? Yes, I know what your response is going to be, but when Trump makes that statement, that's what he is doing in the eyes of so many (even if he's not in your eyes). Trump's statement does not exist in a vacuum like you want to pretend. Republicans have blamed illegal immigrants for so many of the nation's ills. Arizona tried to pass a law which essentially allows police officers to stop a person who merely looks Hispanic and a large percentage of Republicans supported it. And now Trump comes on and says these people are rapists and murderers (and some are good people). There are MANY first and second generation Hispanics in this country. Many who know people who immigrated here (legally or overstayed their visa). While no individual is ever automatically defined by their demographic, many do feel they are similar and being told people who look like them, people who are like them, are rapists and murderers, is offensive. Your argument of "well, some of the people who immigrate here cause crime" is woefully inadequate considering the relatively minor percentage of those who commit a violent crime. His statement was offensive.

Similarly, his comments on women come off as degrading to women. Whether it is his constant degradation of Rosie O'Donnell or Megyn Kelly, two women who dared to challenge him, or his statements about grabbing women or kissing them because he's a star, it's incredibly hard to refute the claim he sees women as not his equal in all ways. I suspect that, like most older men (and women), he thinks men and women are different and gender roles should be adhere too. But that line of thinking is no longer acceptable in our society because it's been proven to be untrue. Women are every bit as capable in every way that matters as men. His comments were offensive because they suggest a poor attitude about women.

And the same goes with Muslims. He didn't call for a ban of ALL people from areas of strife, just Muslims. He singled them out, essentially blaming them for all the ills of the world and then, as a Presidential candidate, proclaimed he wanted to ban only Muslims.

Those statements support bigotry. Again, if you cannot see that, it's a you problem.

Slyfox696 said:

I already have. Multiple times in fact. You could start by reading in one of the several posts in which I've done so.
I have given multiple examples of how Trump has supported bigotry. If you don't understand the argument, that's a you problem.
This is the problem with far too many who support the political right. They honestly don't understand why their positions are offensive to such large swaths of people (and to avoid the unnecessary partisan response, I'm well aware many supporters on the left don't understand why their message turns off so many either). Do you really think lumping Hispanics in with rapists and murderers isn't bigoted? Yes, I know what your response is going to be, but when Trump makes that statement, that's what he is doing in the eyes of so many (even if he's not in your eyes). Trump's statement does not exist in a vacuum like you want to pretend. Republicans have blamed illegal immigrants for so many of the nation's ills. Arizona tried to pass a law which essentially allows police officers to stop a person who merely looks Hispanic and a large percentage of Republicans supported it. And now Trump comes on and says these people are rapists and murderers (and some are good people). There are MANY first and second generation Hispanics in this country. Many who know people who immigrated here (legally or overstayed their visa). While no individual is ever automatically defined by their demographic, many do feel they are similar and being told people who look like them, people who are like them, are rapists and murderers, is offensive. Your argument of "well, some of the people who immigrate here cause crime" is woefully inadequate considering the relatively minor percentage of those who commit a violent crime. His statement was offensive.

Similarly, his comments on women come off as degrading to women. Whether it is his constant degradation of Rosie O'Donnell or Megyn Kelly, two women who dared to challenge him, or his statements about grabbing women or kissing them because he's a star, it's incredibly hard to refute the claim he sees women as not his equal in all ways. I suspect that, like most older men (and women), he thinks men and women are different and gender roles should be adhere too. But that line of thinking is no longer acceptable in our society because it's been proven to be untrue. Women are every bit as capable in every way that matters as men. His comments were offensive because they suggest a poor attitude about women.

And the same goes with Muslims. He didn't call for a ban of ALL people from areas of strife, just Muslims. He singled them out, essentially blaming them for all the ills of the world and then, as a Presidential candidate, proclaimed he wanted to ban only Muslims.

Those statements support bigotry. Again, if you cannot see that, it's a you problem.

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No you havent. In order for you to support the argument that Trump is bigoted towards latinos you would have to actually support the argument with comments made that are bigoted towards Latinos. All you have done is expressed that Trump is opposed to illegal immigration. Period.

Are YOU opposed to illegal immigration? Can you actually support your argument of bigotry with comments he has made against all Latinos?

Similarly, you make the same argument about women. Apparently...because he called Rosie O Donnel a fat pig and made a comment about Megan Kelley he hates women. Is that your assertion?

SheWolf said:

That's a lot of excuse making.

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There will be many chances for more in the near future, the real Fun has not even begun, yet.

Casper said:

There will be many chances for more in the near future, the real Fun has not even begun, yet.

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A lot of Trump supporters think Obama was racially divisive and said inappropriate things during race related events. They think Trump's election means things will be made right. The problem is they voted for more division and for man who used offensive rhetoric. They voted for pouring gasoline on the fire. BLM, neo nazis, rioting, etc. is not going away the day Trump is sworn in. He is going to get plenty of chances to make things worse.

SheWolf said:

A lot of Trump supporters think Obama was racially divisive and said inappropriate things during race related events. They think Trump's election means things will be made right. The problem is they voted for more division and for man who used offensive rhetoric. They voted for pouring gasoline on the fire. BLM, neo nazis, rioting, etc. is not going away the day Trump is sworn in. He is going to get plenty of chances to make things worse.

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Oh, I know that, I am only trying to be hopeful, ya never know, it could happen, right?

VanceMack said:

Rather than tripping over yourself to declare anythign and everything 'racist' you might have been better served in your research of the facts.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B0kkOiAWUCUGcXZaVUItSjhHQVk/view
U.S. GAO - Criminal Alien Statistics: Information on Incarcerations, Arrests, and Costs
He DID NOT say Latinos suck. He didnt label Latinos as 'needy'. What he said was 100% correct. The Mexican government is NOT in any way shape or form invested in stemming the flow of illegal immigration. They are NOT sending us their best and brightest. And yes...many of them ARE murderers and rapists. In fact according to FBI sentencing statistics and interpretations AT LEAST 27% in the federal presion system ARE illegal immigrants that happen to be rapists and murderers.

Re Muslims...he said people from countries with a history of wanting to do us harm should not be allowed in til they can be properly vetted. Surely you arent stupid enough to disagree with that statement?

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Anybody that questions this should talk to some people that live near the border.

They will verify what they live with on a daily basis.

Captain Adverse said:

Correction. HE hasn't created this anxiety; it was created by the blatant bias in Main Stream Media and run with by every media pundit who wanted to see Hillary Clinton elected instead of him.

I'd suggest you do some basic research, and don't believe everything you've heard in the media. I did, and it's why I preferred to vote for him over his opponent in this past election.

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?

Let's see, Trump hires Bannon to be his right hand man. Bannon flat out said at the RNC convention about his company, Breitbart, "We're the platform for the alt-right".

And this is somehow the evil media's fault for reporting exactly what he said?

Give it a rest.

Mason66 said:

Anybody that questions this should talk to some people that live near the border.

They will verify what they live with on a daily basis.

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People get blinded by their own hatred. Ive STILL yet to see ANYONE support their claims of bigotry towards Latinos. At BEST you could say he was anti-illegal immigrant.

SheWolf said:

A lot of Trump supporters think Obama was racially divisive and said inappropriate things during race related events. They think Trump's election means things will be made right. The problem is they voted for more division and for man who used offensive rhetoric. They voted for pouring gasoline on the fire. BLM, neo nazis, rioting, etc. is not going away the day Trump is sworn in. He is going to get plenty of chances to make things worse.

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Actually, with the exception of the tiny group of fools who would be identified as Nazi's, the left will have plenty of time to make things worse than they already have with their identity politics agenda.

It's rather remarkable to read posts accusing Trump of offensive rhetoric, when citizens have been subjected to being called racists and worse for the last 8 years for something as simple as being unsupportive of Obama's agenda. Of course citizens also witnessed Hillary Clinton calling 10's of millions of voters irredeemably deplorable simply because they didn't support her.

It seems to me one of the primary efforts of liberal/socialist progressives is to label anyone who doesn't agree with their demands racist, neo-Nazi, bigots, etc...

What exactly would you do after 8 plus years of that?

AlbqOwl said:

Excellent post. I did not want Donald Trump to be the GOP nominee, but once he was, I too did my homework.

Accusations of racism and bigotry in Trump? Verdict: fabricated out of thin air and promoted for malicious reasons.
Accusations of sexism and misogyny in Trump? Verdict: fabricated out of thin air and promoted for malicious reasons.
Etc.

As we all are, Trump is a fallible person with strengths, weaknesses, a charming side and an irritating side. He won't be a perfect president and he's going to make some mistakes and misjudgments. But I see in him a vision and worthy goals and the kind of person who will actually try to reach them. And probably will a good many of them.

The same people who are doing their damndest to make him into a racist, bigot, sexist, etc. will surely focus on any missteps and ignore anything good that happens.

But on we go per usual. . . .

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The problem we had in this election was the media twisting what Trump said but never looking at what he has done.

Why did the media ignore the fact that Trump has more female executives working for him than males? If he hated women like has been reported, why would he hire so many and pay them more than the men?

Didn't he receive some awards from the NAACP for his work with blacks?

As far as his comments on illegal Mexicans crossing the border, he was 100% right.

Casper said:

Whether he created it or not, he is stuck with it, so why not clear the air and tell the People is stand on the issue is he interested in bringing people together or satisfied with the division? In my opinion he would be best served by making a public statement on the topic.

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He is not "stuck" with anything. If people are too stupid to figure out the MSM is full of ****, that's their problem. He publicly disavowed and condemned the "alt-right" movement. That was more than should be required of him. The left will never relent in their pursuit to destroy Trump, they can go suck eggs.

SheWolf said:

I don't watch MSM. I heard Trump's rhetoric out of his own mouth, and saw his rallies on TV. I also share the same concerns with the OP over his cabinent appointments.

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If you don't watch the MSM, where exactly did you get your information about his cabinet appointments which caused you concern?

ocean515 said:

Actually, with the exception of the tiny group of fools who would be identified as Nazi's, the left will have plenty of time to make things worse than they already have with their identity politics agenda.

It's rather remarkable to read posts accusing Trump of offensive rhetoric, when citizens have been subjected to being called racists and worse for the last 8 years for something as simple as being unsupportive of Obama's agenda. Of course citizens also witnessed Hillary Clinton calling 10's of millions of voters irredeemably deplorable simply because they didn't support her.

It seems to me one of the primary efforts of liberal/socialist progressives is to label anyone who doesn't agree with their demands racist, neo-Nazi, bigots, etc...

What exactly would you do after 8 plus years of that?

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You're illustrating what I said. There are race problems in this country, and it's far from being all of Obama's fault and the left's fault. Trump's rhetoric is offensive to a lot of people. I know people who voted for Trump and said his rhetoric was offensive and divisive, but they voted for him reasons other than race and their views of Obama and the left. If you don't understand why his rhetoric is offensive to others, then you agree with it. You support the rhetoric. We shouldn't be a country where we lack empathy for others who don't look like us. The left and the right need to both learn racially divisive rhetoric is unacceptable. Trump is gasoline on the fire.

VanceMack said:

People get blinded by their own hatred. Ive STILL yet to see ANYONE support their claims of bigotry towards Latinos. At BEST you could say he was anti-illegal immigrant.

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I wouldn't even go that far.

I would say he is anti criminal illegal immigrant.

Is Trump being called xenophobic because he wants to better the lives of American citizens?

There is a push in Mexico right now to only use Mexican made products and boycott American made and sold products.

They even have a little symbol.

Is it OK for every other country to protect it's citizens financially, but not the US?

countryboy said:

He is not "stuck" with anything. If people are too stupid to figure out the MSM is full of ****, that's their problem. He publicly disavowed and condemned the "alt-right" movement. That was more than should be required of him. The left will never relent in their pursuit to destroy Trump, they can go suck eggs.

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Ummm, yes he is stuck with it, that is just the reality, learn to deal with it. All major news stations are full of ****, and no, many do not know it, and many others simply take it for what it is and do their homework to get all the facts (rarely found on YouTube BTW). And I am glad that he did so, whether the MSM acknowledges it or not is their problem, but he needed to do it.

SheWolf said:

You're illustrating what I said. There are race problems in this country, and it's far from being all of Obama's fault and the left's fault. Trump's rhetoric is offensive to a lot of people. I know people who voted for Trump and said his rhetoric was offensive and divisive, but they voted for him reasons other than race and their views of Obama and the left. If you don't understand why his rhetoric is offensive to others, then you agree with it. You support the rhetoric. We shouldn't be a country where we lack empathy for others who don't look like us. The left and the right need to both learn racially divisive rhetoric is unacceptable. Trump is gasoline on the fire.

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Ridiculous statements like this will get you tuned out.

People take responsibility for what they are offended by. That in no way means I nor anybody else agrees with anything.

Small brains get offended by just about everything. Nobody can do anything about that.

Mason66 said:

The problem we had in this election was the media twisting what Trump said but never looking at what he has done.

Why did the media ignore the fact that Trump has more female executives working for him than males? If he hated women like has been reported, why would he hire so many and pay them more than the men?

Didn't he receive some awards from the NAACP for his work with blacks?

As far as his comments on illegal Mexicans crossing the border, he was 100% right.

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Most of the media is in the tank with the most prejudiced, bigoted, and intolerant of the extreme left, and more and more of those on the left are becoming increasingly extreme. They are never going to give a fair shake to or an honest appraisal to anybody they don't count as one of them.

AlbqOwl said:

Most of the media is in the tank with the most prejudiced, bigoted, and intolerant of the extreme left, and more and more of those on the left are becoming increasingly extreme. They are never going to give a fair shake to or an honest appraisal to anybody they don't count as one of them.

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That is true, but that has marginalized their power. People have seen them for who and what they are.

I see that as a good thing.

Alt-right is a made up term and is used so speciously that it's worthless.

Of course, it's use is much more calculated than that. It will be used to include groups that are neo-nazis or just your normal white supremists and then also used for right libertarians, or other completely acceptable ideological conservative groups, in a blatant attempt to marginalize any opposition to the progressive left.

Casper said:

Ummm, yes he is stuck with it, that is just the reality, learn to deal with it. All major news stations are full of ****, and no, many do not know it, and many others simply take it for what it is and do their homework to get all the facts (rarely found on YouTube BTW). And I am glad that he did so, whether the MSM acknowledges it or not is their problem, but he needed to do it.

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I will never "learn to deal" with idiotic leftists and their false claims of racism and bigotry. All the while spewing their own brand of intolerance, racism, and bigotry. No, I refuse to "learn to deal" with hypocrites. If you want to coddle, or even join them, that's your own problem. I'll stand with logic and reason.

ataraxia said:

One of the big reasons for so much anxiety and suspicion in the nation against Donald Trump is that much of his rhetoric and actions, both directly and indirectly, have created an air of sanction or support of racism and bigotry against entire very large groups in the nation.

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The only anxiety and suspicion over DJT lives inside the heads of leftists. They constructed it, no one forced them to believe such ridiculousness. You're being played as fools by the leftist propaganda machine, and have been for years.

countryboy said:

I will never "learn to deal" with idiotic leftists and their false claims of racism and bigotry. All the while spewing their own brand of intolerance, racism, and bigotry. No, I refuse to "learn to deal" with hypocrites. If you want to coddle, or even join them, that's your own problem. I'll stand with logic and reason.

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Well then, as the saying goes; one is either part of the solution or part of the problem.