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More votes equals a loss...revolution!

Well, today Trump did have this to say:

--

Ditching the Electoral College

Trump won more electoral votes than Clinton -- but he didn't win the popular vote.
Still, he says, he favors ditching the Electoral College and handing the presidency to the winner of the popular vote.

"I'm not going to change my mind just because I won. But I would rather see it where you went with simple votes. you know, you get 100 million votes and somebody else gets 90 million votes and you win. There's a reason for doing this because it brings all the states into play," Trump said."

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Source: Trump to supporters harassing minorities: 'Stop it'

*bolding mine

What he said is not what he did. He spent little on national ads, but did play the media well, and focused on a few "key" states (because of the EC system?).

Donald Trump Campaign to Target 17 States in November Election - Washington Wire - WSJ
 
Our country is now in serious and unprecedented trouble...like never before.

This election is a total sham and a travesty. We are not a democracy!

Lets fight like hell and stop this great and disgusting injustice! The world is laughing at us.

We can't let this happen. We should march on Washington and stop this travesty. Our nation is totally divided!

The phony electoral college made a laughing stock out of our nation. The loser one!

He lost the popular vote by a lot and won the election. We should have a revolution in this country!



:thumbs:
know one was martching agisnt the electoral college before the vote it would destroy are democracy to start a cival war over it after words

so how about people act decently and try to get congress back on the mid term elections instead since we still have representation

i voted Clinton but wannabe rebs can all go to hell leftist and those on the right alike
 
Our country is now in serious and unprecedented trouble...like never before.
This election is a total sham and a travesty. We are not a democracy!


Since we were never a democracy I don't see an issue.

Lets fight like hell and stop this great and disgusting injustice! The world is laughing at us.

No we are just laughing at the utter melt down liberals are having

We can't let this happen. We should march on Washington and stop this travesty. Our nation is totally divided!

Umm you can't stop anything because it was a legal valid election.
yes because there are a few brats in the world that can't stand that they lost.

The phony electoral college made a laughing stock out of our nation. The loser one!

There is nothing phony about it. It works exactly as intended to.

He lost the popular vote by a lot and won the election. We should have a revolution in this country!
She didn't win the popular vote either. She has not received 51% of the vote.
The house would decide the election and trump would still win.

only you would be complaining and crying about that as well.
 
Parody of power between states, for one. We are the United States, not the united people.

The people's voice is heard in the US House of Representatives and the US Senate. The Senate used to be where the states had their voices heard, until the 17th Amendment, which I feel should be repealed.

The President is where the administration, the management of the country's business, enforcement of the law, and interaction with other nations takes place. It should be more of an administrator and less of a politician that sways with the winds of popular opinion. Hamilton put it well in Federalist 68.
Yeah, I'm not out to debate this, but wanted your opinion.

From my earliest memory (Grammar School):

House = People
Senate = States
President = Executive/Administrative.

But as to the EC, I haven't seen a definitive answer. I remember way back in Grammar School History, first reading the populace was considered too uneducated to be trusted with such a decision. I've since seen theories that the EC acts as a geographical brake, forcing a distribution of voting power across the country.

Then there's this from Madison in committee to determine the form of voting during the Constitutional Convention, where he states it was a giveaway to the Southern States due to slavery skewing the vote (coincidently from the same source you used):

" The people at large was in his opinion the fittest in itself. It would be as likely as any that could be devised to produce an Executive Magistrate of distinguished Character. The people generally could only know & vote for some Citizen whose merits had rendered him an object of general attention & esteem. There was one difficulty however of a serious nature attending an immediate choice by the people. The right of suffrage was much more diffusive in the Northern than the Southern States; and the latter could have no influence in the election on the score of the Negroes. The substitution of electors obviated this difficulty and seemed on the whole to be liable to fewest objections."

Source: Yale Law

So I dunno.

There seems to be a dearth of factual knowledge, vs tons of conjecture and supposition.

It would seem to me "lack of education" no longer applies, and neither would skewing the vote to accommodate the 3/5 person Southern States effect. That would pretty much leave the "give greater voice to rural areas" as the only theory that might apply today, and I'm not sure I agree with diminishing the value of one group of citizen's votes, or amplifying another group's.

I am going to be doing some research in this.
 
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<snip>

She didn't win the popular vote either. She has not received 51% of the vote.
The house would decide the election and trump would still win.

only you would be complaining and crying about that as well.
What are you talking about here?

Popular or direct vote elections don't hinge on whole integer percentage results! :doh

On vote more than the other guy, will do it!
 
What are you talking about here?

Popular or direct vote elections don't hinge on whole integer percentage results! :doh

On vote more than the other guy, will do it!

:doh The rules call for a majority of the vote not a plurality of the vote.
having 1 more vote than the next person is a plurality.

In order to win Hillary would have had to have a majority or 51% or more of the popular vote.

otherwise it would kick off a vote in the house.
 
:doh The rules call for a majority of the vote not a plurality of the vote.
having 1 more vote than the next person is a plurality.

In order to win Hillary would have had to have a majority or 51% or more of the popular vote.

otherwise it would kick off a vote in the house.
What are you talking about? :doh

I don't think you understand the terms you're using. Seriously.

A plurality is the largest vote where there is no majority. A majority is anything over 50%. Therefore 50.00000001% is a majority. Move the '1' after the decimal as far as you want - to Omaha if you'd like - and it's still a majority. 50% + 1 vote is a majority (i.e. one more vote than the other guy).

Let me ask you this: What implies a house majority?
 
Link to the original source? I see fake twitter quotes from basement dwellers on 4chan all the time.

I asked you in a follow-up post, to provide a link to show us they are authentic and not some 4chan troll's work at screwing with us all.

Here you go, some quotes are still on twitter and others have been deleted....

“More votes equals a loss...revolution!”
Trump calls for revolution, blasts Electoral College | TheHill

"Our country is now in serious and unprecedented trouble...like never before." https://mobile.twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/266037143628038144

"This election is a total sham and a travesty. We are not a democracy!"
https://mobile.twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/266035509162303492

"Lets fight like hell and stop this great and disgusting injustice! The world is laughing at us."https://mobile.twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/266034957875544064

"We can't let this happen. We should march on Washington and stop this travesty. Our nation is totally divided!" https://mobile.twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/266034630820507648

"The phoney electoral college made a laughing stock out of our nation. The loser one!"http://mashable.com/2012/11/06/trump-reacts-to-election/#rY9R2m4ZqkqE

"He lost the popular vote by a lot and won the election. We should have a revolution in this country!"http://gothamist.com/2012/11/07/huge_jerk_donald_trump_had_twitter.php

:lamo Loser nation he says........ :usflag2:



:yt

Well played, but why only wait 10 mins?

Shoulda' let them smolder a bit! :2razz:

Distancing myself from Trumps words was more important.

Sorry I couldn't be more entertaining.
 
Our country is now in serious and unprecedented trouble...like never before.

This election is a total sham and a travesty. We are not a democracy!

Lets fight like hell and stop this great and disgusting injustice! The world is laughing at us.

We can't let this happen. We should march on Washington and stop this travesty. Our nation is totally divided!

The phony electoral college made a laughing stock out of our nation. The loser one!

He lost the popular vote by a lot and won the election. We should have a revolution in this country!



:thumbs:

I just renewed my Class "B" Virginia State Home Improvement license (HIC).

I can come by and build that safe room for ya................cheap too. :)
 
I just renewed my Class "B" Virginia State Home Improvement license (HIC).

I can come by and build that safe room for ya................cheap too. :)

Those are Trumps words, don't worry though , your tax dollars will provide him with one.
 
Those are Trumps words, don't worry though , your tax dollars will provide him with one.

words are words, it's obvious he didn't act on them, nor did anyone else at the time. no there's only one sect of american politics who, when they can't get their way, would actually try to act out such a thing...
 
What are you talking about? :doh

I don't think you understand the terms you're using. Seriously.

A plurality is the largest vote where there is no majority. A majority is anything over 50%. Therefore 50.00000001% is a majority. Move the '1' after the decimal as far as you want - to Omaha if you'd like - and it's still a majority. 50% + 1 vote is a majority (i.e. one more vote than the other guy).

Let me ask you this: What implies a house majority?

I think +1 vote was not used to decide elections because of the error factor. I guess the 51% comes into play because it removes the error factor from the process. 1 vote out of small number is a decisive victory. However when counting 100's of millions of votes 1 vote no where near takes into account the error factor. Just my opinion.
 
What are you talking about? :doh

I don't think you understand the terms you're using. Seriously.

We know you don't understand the terms being used.
Right now if you want to win the president you have to get 51% of the electoral votes. that is why it is at 270.

So in order to get the majority of the popular vote you would need 51% of the popular vote.

A plurality is the largest vote where there is no majority. A majority is anything over 50%. Therefore 50.00000001% is a majority. Move the '1' after the decimal as far as you want - to Omaha if you'd like - and it's still a majority. 50% + 1 vote is a majority (i.e. one more vote than the other guy).

Clinton has 48% of the popular vote tell me again how 48% is > 51% again.

Let me ask you this: What implies a house majority?

anything over 51% why because 50/50 is a tie.
 
I think +1 vote was not used to decide elections because of the error factor. I guess the 51% comes into play because it removes the error factor from the process. 1 vote out of small number is a decisive victory. However when counting 100's of millions of votes 1 vote no where near takes into account the error factor. Just my opinion.

it is 51% because at 50/50 you have a tie vote.
 
Our country is now in serious and unprecedented trouble...like never before.

This election is a total sham and a travesty. We are not a democracy!

Lets fight like hell and stop this great and disgusting injustice! The world is laughing at us.

We can't let this happen. We should march on Washington and stop this travesty. Our nation is totally divided!

The phony electoral college made a laughing stock out of our nation. The loser one!

He lost the popular vote by a lot and won the election. We should have a revolution in this country!



:thumbs:

I guess you really haven't read how the government works, have you?

Or that we the aren't a democracy but a bastardized republic....which is what the founders wanted

And when you let the citizens of a few cities and states dictate the path for the rest of states, then you live in what I would call mob rule....not a republic

How can a New Yorker know what is best for Kansas, when the majority have never been there....or Idaho, or Nebraska, or any other of the so called fly over states

The east and west coasts can not and will not dictate to the whole country.....hence the EC and its results

Most of the time it works with the total vote, but sometimes it doesn't

But it gives every state and citizen a chance to have their voice heard
 
We know you don't understand the terms being used.
Right now if you want to win the president you have to get 51% of the electoral votes. that is why it is at 270.

So in order to get the majority of the popular vote you would need 51% of the popular vote.



Clinton has 48% of the popular vote tell me again how 48% is > 51% again.



anything over 51% why because 50/50 is a tie.

Right now you get 100% of most (except in NE an ME) state's electoral votes with a simple plurality (short of 50%) of that state's popular vote - why "must" that change if you switch to a straight popular vote system?
 
Right now you get 100% of most (except in NE an ME) state's electoral votes with a simple plurality (short of 50%) of that state's popular vote - why "must" that change if you switch to a straight popular vote system?

The number of electoral votes needed is 51%. so why should it not be the same and be consistent?

You need a majority not a plurality of votes to win. if not then it would head to the house.
 
The number of electoral votes needed is 51%. so why should it not be the same and be consistent?

You need a majority not a plurality of votes to win. if not then it would head to the house.

Nope, the EC awards fixed "points" based on a state's (approximate) potential popular vote percentage (plus 2). The popular vote ignores any voter potential and counts only actual votes cast - unless you wanted congress to do the (s)election (most of the time?) then why not let a plurality suffice?
 
Yeah, I'm not out to debate this, but wanted your opinion.

From my earliest memory (Grammar School):

House = People
Senate = States
President = Executive/Administrative.

But as to the EC, I haven't seen a definitive answer. I remember way back in Grammar School History, first reading the populace was considered too uneducated to be trusted with such a decision. I've since seen theories that the EC acts as a geographical brake, forcing a distribution of voting power across the country.

Then there's this from Madison in committee to determine the form of voting during the Constitutional Convention, where he states it was a giveaway to the Southern States due to slavery skewing the vote (coincidently from the same source you used):

" The people at large was in his opinion the fittest in itself. It would be as likely as any that could be devised to produce an Executive Magistrate of distinguished Character. The people generally could only know & vote for some Citizen whose merits had rendered him an object of general attention & esteem. There was one difficulty however of a serious nature attending an immediate choice by the people. The right of suffrage was much more diffusive in the Northern than the Southern States; and the latter could have no influence in the election on the score of the Negroes. The substitution of electors obviated this difficulty and seemed on the whole to be liable to fewest objections."

Source: Yale Law

So I dunno.

There seems to be a dearth of factual knowledge, vs tons of conjecture and supposition.

It would seem to me "lack of education" no longer applies, and neither would skewing the vote to accommodate the 3/5 person Southern States effect. That would pretty much leave the "give greater voice to rural areas" as the only theory that might apply today, and I'm not sure I agree with diminishing the value of one group of citizen's votes, or amplifying another group's.

I am going to be doing some research in this.

To further your research, look into Federalist Paper 39, Madison, which uses identical phrases and thoughts as the debate you quoted from Madison.

Also, the other link I gave you to Federalist Paper 68, Hamilton, is about the Electoral College, not the formation of the government. Just in case you didn't have time to read it before responding. Excerpt: "Another and no less important desideratum was, that the Executive should be independent for his continuance in office on all but the people themselves. He might otherwise be tempted to sacrifice his duty to his complaisance for those whose favor was necessary to the duration of his official consequence. This advantage will also be secured, by making his re-election to depend on a special body of representatives, deputed by the society for the single purpose of making the important choice."

I enjoy researching what the founding fathers were actually thinking and trying to accomplish. It amazes me the level of forethought they had, and how applicable their concerns of that time are so similar to the concerns of this time. It shows me that the basic instinct of man, to live free from government encumbrances and tyranny of oppression, has not changed in over 250 years.
 
So you want to abolish the undemocratic Senate in which states get equal representation and power despite their population?
 
Here you go, some quotes are still on twitter and others have been deleted....

“More votes equals a loss...revolution!”
Trump calls for revolution, blasts Electoral College | TheHill

"Our country is now in serious and unprecedented trouble...like never before." https://mobile.twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/266037143628038144

"This election is a total sham and a travesty. We are not a democracy!"
https://mobile.twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/266035509162303492

"Lets fight like hell and stop this great and disgusting injustice! The world is laughing at us."https://mobile.twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/266034957875544064

"We can't let this happen. We should march on Washington and stop this travesty. Our nation is totally divided!" https://mobile.twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/266034630820507648

"The phoney electoral college made a laughing stock out of our nation. The loser one!"http://mashable.com/2012/11/06/trump-reacts-to-election/#rY9R2m4ZqkqE

"He lost the popular vote by a lot and won the election. We should have a revolution in this country!"http://gothamist.com/2012/11/07/huge_jerk_donald_trump_had_twitter.php

:lamo Loser nation he says........ :usflag2:



:yt



Distancing myself from Trumps words was more important.

Sorry I couldn't be more entertaining.


Thank you for doing all that research and providing it to me as I requested. On that point alone, you've gained a not so small modicum of respect with me.
 
Nope, the EC awards fixed "points" based on a state's (approximate) potential popular vote percentage (plus 2). The popular vote ignores any voter potential and counts only actual votes cast - unless you wanted congress to do the (s)election (most of the time?) then why not let a plurality suffice?

why should someone that doesn't get the majority of votes now decide who is president?
it takes the majority of votes now to be consistent it should take the majority of votes for president.

If you can't garner the majority of voters why should you win the contest?

plurality is equal to mob rule.
who cares about 95% of the country and lets just not make them count at all.
 
Our country is now in serious and unprecedented trouble...like never before.

This election is a total sham and a travesty. We are not a democracy!

The phony electoral college made a laughing stock out of our nation. The loser one!

He lost the popular vote by a lot and won the election. We should have a revolution in this country!

Lose the election by rules that are well known and have been in existence for centuries? No problem, we"ll just call for violence and demand that the rules be changed after the fact. Hillary will win in the end.... .
 
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