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How Gary Johnson and Jill Stein helped elect Donald Trump

Ikari

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How Gary Johnson and Jill Stein helped elect Donald Trump - CNNPolitics.com

If Johnson and Stein weren't in the race, it's also possible many of their supporters may have stayed home. But if about half of Johnson's supporters would have voted for Clinton over Trump, and if most of Stein's supporters broke for the Democrats, the electoral map would have been decidedly different.

So this has been an election of excuses around the board. But the whining, the crying, the carrying on by some on the left, the riots and the assaults....good lord. And here's another bit of the "it's everyone's fault but mine" argument I've been seeing going around much more prevalently than I have seen in the past. People are starting to lash out at the very limited few of us who voted for third party. I mean, I think Johnson got like 3% of the popular vote, but it's 3rd parties fault that Hillary lost.

It's not. Hillary lost against a powderpuff candidate because she ran a **** campaign, because she had serious character and credibility issues with America, because she didn't do a good enough job. She lost because she failed. End of story. Everything was set up for her win, so I understand why some people are so upset about her loss. How could she, when the system was a perfect storm of events that seemed to be selecting her as next president? Because she f'd up. She didn't connect with the voters and States she needed to in order to win.

So with all this crying and finger pointing going around, now I'm starting to see this backlash against the third parties. We're told how insignificant we are and how we're throwing votes away all up until the point that we made your candidate lose. Piss off. If you wanted my vote, you have to put up a good candidate, one I can support; else I will vote third party. The failure isn't because people voted third party, it was because Hillary couldn't capture the votes.

And if we're just going to lash out at groups, how about the neigh half of eligible voters who didn't vote. Could have pulled from there, but didn't.
 
How Gary Johnson and Jill Stein helped elect Donald Trump - CNNPolitics.com



So this has been an election of excuses around the board. But the whining, the crying, the carrying on by some on the left, the riots and the assaults....good lord. And here's another bit of the "it's everyone's fault but mine" argument I've been seeing going around much more prevalently than I have seen in the past. People are starting to lash out at the very limited few of us who voted for third party. I mean, I think Johnson got like 3% of the popular vote, but it's 3rd parties fault that Hillary lost.

It's not. Hillary lost against a powderpuff candidate because she ran a **** campaign, because she had serious character and credibility issues with America, because she didn't do a good enough job. She lost because she failed. End of story. Everything was set up for her win, so I understand why some people are so upset about her loss. How could she, when the system was a perfect storm of events that seemed to be selecting her as next president? Because she f'd up. She didn't connect with the voters and States she needed to in order to win.

So with all this crying and finger pointing going around, now I'm starting to see this backlash against the third parties. We're told how insignificant we are and how we're throwing votes away all up until the point that we made your candidate lose. Piss off. If you wanted my vote, you have to put up a good candidate, one I can support; else I will vote third party. The failure isn't because people voted third party, it was because Hillary couldn't capture the votes.

And if we're just going to lash out at groups, how about the neigh half of eligible voters who didn't vote. Could have pulled from there, but didn't.
A lot of johnson's support was from nevertrump conservatives anyway.
 
How Gary Johnson and Jill Stein helped elect Donald Trump - CNNPolitics.com



So this has been an election of excuses around the board. But the whining, the crying, the carrying on by some on the left, the riots and the assaults....good lord. And here's another bit of the "it's everyone's fault but mine" argument I've been seeing going around much more prevalently than I have seen in the past. People are starting to lash out at the very limited few of us who voted for third party. I mean, I think Johnson got like 3% of the popular vote, but it's 3rd parties fault that Hillary lost.

It's not. Hillary lost against a powederpuff candidate because she ran a **** campaign, because she had serious character and credibility issues with America, because she didn't do a good enough job. She lost because she failed. End of story. Everything was set up for her win, so I understand why some people are so upset about her loss. How could she, when the system was a perfect storm of events that seemed to be selecting her as next president? Because she f'd up. She didn't connect with the voters and States she needed to in order to win.

So with all this crying and finger pointing going around, now I'm starting to see this backlash against the third parties. We're told how insignificant we are and how we're throwing votes away all up until the point that we made your candidate lose. Piss off. If you wanted my vote, you have to put up a good candidate, one I can support; else I will vote third party. The failure isn't because people voted third party, it was because Hillary couldn't capture the votes.

And if we're just going to lash out at groups, how about the neigh half of eligible voters who didn't vote. Could have pulled from there, but didn't.
Well said Ikari. I would also like to point out that Gary Johnson was a ****ing garbage candidate and he still got 3% of the vote. It wasn't Ralph Nader's fault Gore lost. It's not Johnson/Stein's fault Hillary lost. In fact the Libertarian Party VP, Bill Weld, actually campaigned on behalf of Hillary in the final days. The Dems are completely incapable of doing any sort of internal soul searching. It's obvious that they're pulling the same tired "blame third parties" excuse that the pulled after Gore lost and easily winnable campaign.

Hillary had the most inside track to election victory I've ever seen. Nearly 8x the money, a liberal media that did nothing but promote her, Wall Street Banks practically bankrolling her campaign, and insiders from across the aisle stabbing their own constituents in the bank in order to put wind to her sails and she still lost.

Maybe next time she shouldn't brag about putting coal miners out of work. Maybe next time she shouldn't brag about how after 9-11 her first priority was to prop up Wall Street. Maybe next time she should focus on actual policy instead of beating people over the head that she deserves to be president just because she's a woman. Maybe next time she shouldn't denigrate American citizens by calling them "deplorable".

I still can't believe that. On numerous instances during the campaign, she attack the actual American voter and not the candidate. Just insulting huge swaths of the American people. But unlike when Mitt Romney insulted 47% of Americans, the MSM doubled down and praised her for it. People on this forum praised her for it. For all the talk about Trump being boorish: Hillary was far more disgusting because she genuinely hates anyone who doesn't support her. Obama better pardon her because Trump is going to do whatever he can to put her in jail.
 
Clinton's defeat is the fault of all on the left. It's the fault of the DNC, the Clintons, Bernie's cultists, progressives' louts, the Green Party, the whole bunch.
 
How Gary Johnson and Jill Stein helped elect Donald Trump - CNNPolitics.com



So this has been an election of excuses around the board. But the whining, the crying, the carrying on by some on the left, the riots and the assaults....good lord. And here's another bit of the "it's everyone's fault but mine" argument I've been seeing going around much more prevalently than I have seen in the past. People are starting to lash out at the very limited few of us who voted for third party. I mean, I think Johnson got like 3% of the popular vote, but it's 3rd parties fault that Hillary lost.

It's not. Hillary lost against a powderpuff candidate because she ran a **** campaign, because she had serious character and credibility issues with America, because she didn't do a good enough job. She lost because she failed. End of story. Everything was set up for her win, so I understand why some people are so upset about her loss. How could she, when the system was a perfect storm of events that seemed to be selecting her as next president? Because she f'd up. She didn't connect with the voters and States she needed to in order to win.

So with all this crying and finger pointing going around, now I'm starting to see this backlash against the third parties. We're told how insignificant we are and how we're throwing votes away all up until the point that we made your candidate lose. Piss off. If you wanted my vote, you have to put up a good candidate, one I can support; else I will vote third party. The failure isn't because people voted third party, it was because Hillary couldn't capture the votes.

And if we're just going to lash out at groups, how about the neigh half of eligible voters who didn't vote. Could have pulled from there, but didn't.

Like anything, it's how you spin it. In reality, Johnson and Stein got as many votes as they did not because people were drawn away by them, but because so many people refused to vote for either major party. Without Johnson and Stein on the ticket, Mickey Mouse would have killed it this year.

I was on the fence on which one I was voting for, ended up voting Johnson because I wanted to see bigger numbers next to a 3rd party candidate. But nothing would have made me vote for Trump of Shillary. Not 5$ and a pork sandwich, not fear of Russia, nor any of the other empty narratives they were shouting in my ear.
 
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Clinton's defeat is the fault of all on the left. It's the fault of the DNC, the Clintons, Bernie's cultists, progressives' louts, the Green Party, the whole bunch.


If that makes you feel better :shrug:

I heard a lot of echo chambers broke this season from over use, but some apparently still function.
 
How Gary Johnson and Jill Stein helped elect Donald Trump - CNNPolitics.com



So this has been an election of excuses around the board. But the whining, the crying, the carrying on by some on the left, the riots and the assaults....good lord. And here's another bit of the "it's everyone's fault but mine" argument I've been seeing going around much more prevalently than I have seen in the past. People are starting to lash out at the very limited few of us who voted for third party. I mean, I think Johnson got like 3% of the popular vote, but it's 3rd parties fault that Hillary lost.

It's not. Hillary lost against a powderpuff candidate because she ran a **** campaign, because she had serious character and credibility issues with America, because she didn't do a good enough job. She lost because she failed. End of story. Everything was set up for her win, so I understand why some people are so upset about her loss. How could she, when the system was a perfect storm of events that seemed to be selecting her as next president? Because she f'd up. She didn't connect with the voters and States she needed to in order to win.

So with all this crying and finger pointing going around, now I'm starting to see this backlash against the third parties. We're told how insignificant we are and how we're throwing votes away all up until the point that we made your candidate lose. Piss off. If you wanted my vote, you have to put up a good candidate, one I can support; else I will vote third party. The failure isn't because people voted third party, it was because Hillary couldn't capture the votes.

And if we're just going to lash out at groups, how about the neigh half of eligible voters who didn't vote. Could have pulled from there, but didn't.




I don't believe for one second that half of johnson's voters would have voted for hillary. No way.

Stein was so far behind she is irrelevant.
 
I don't know if Johnson or Stein helped get DJT elected, but I sure did. Leftists can blame that on me, if they want. I have broad shoulders. :)
 
If that makes you feel better :shrug:

I heard a lot of echo chambers broke this season from over use, but some apparently still function.

Hey, I have no dog in this fight; I'll be sitting back and enjoying the inevitable ****show as liberals shoot themselves in the head, not the foot.
 
I don't believe for one second that half of johnson's voters would have voted for hillary. No way.

Stein was so far behind she is irrelevant.

I certainly wouldn't have voted for Hillary. But then again I certainly wouldn't have voted for Trump. These are some of the reasons I voted for Johnson.

It's just...damn, I have never seen such a pity party at a political loss before this. People are going crazy, people are making stupid arguments, people are rioting and burning and assaulting people. Because their candidate lost. This is America, we have over 200 years of peaceful turnover of power. I don't like Trump, I think he's going to be an embarrassment, but he won and we have to deal with that. If you don't like that you lost, figure out why you lost and correct that for next time. That's how it's supposed to work. But now I see people calling third party supporters stupid and lashing out because they think that if we didn't vote third party, we would have voted Hillary and she would have won.

She would have won if she ran a good campaign. Everything was in her advantage and she blew it. So enough with the crying and the violence. Man up, sally forth. We survived Bush, we survived Obama, we can survive Trump and if you don't like him, make sure a better candidate challenges him in 4 years.
 
I certainly wouldn't have voted for Hillary. But then again I certainly wouldn't have voted for Trump. These are some of the reasons I voted for Johnson.

It's just...damn, I have never seen such a pity party at a political loss before this. People are going crazy, people are making stupid arguments, people are rioting and burning and assaulting people. Because their candidate lost. This is America, we have over 200 years of peaceful turnover of power. I don't like Trump, I think he's going to be an embarrassment, but he won and we have to deal with that. If you don't like that you lost, figure out why you lost and correct that for next time. That's how it's supposed to work. But now I see people calling third party supporters stupid and lashing out because they think that if we didn't vote third party, we would have voted Hillary and she would have won.

She would have won if she ran a good campaign. Everything was in her advantage and she blew it. So enough with the crying and the violence. Man up, sally forth. We survived Bush, we survived Obama, we can survive Trump and if you don't like him, make sure a better candidate challenges him in 4 years.

I agree with all this. One of the whines though is that johnson stole votes from hillary.

no way.

johnson polled about the same as he usually does.... and johnson is against big government and unless they can show there was a large increase for johnson in key states they can't even begin to make that argument.

if they can, they still cant make that argument based on political differences.
 
If people voted for Stein rather than Hillary they were disappointed that Hillary did not adequately represent their leftist views, and that is perfectly valid.

If people voted for Johnson rather than Hillary, they are very confused because somehow they think there's a lot of policy similarities between Democrats and Libertarians.
 
I've read a lot of articles on this board that have really dumb and irritating headlines, but I can't read this one for a while. It's that irritating. If they are truly going to place blame on third parties for Clinton's loss they are absolutely delusional.
 
how often do we hear people say it on THIS site...Libertarians are really just a bunch of greedy conservatives. right? So...THEY would have voted for Hillary if not for Johnson?

Hillary lost for the exact reason I said she would 2 years ago. She sucks as a candidate. Her own supporters...only a handful REALLY wanted her. She lost ground with the black vote and with the latino voters but most importantly...47% of the country were so repulsed they didnt even bother voting.
 
How Gary Johnson and Jill Stein helped elect Donald Trump - CNNPolitics.com



So this has been an election of excuses around the board. But the whining, the crying, the carrying on by some on the left, the riots and the assaults....good lord. And here's another bit of the "it's everyone's fault but mine" argument I've been seeing going around much more prevalently than I have seen in the past. People are starting to lash out at the very limited few of us who voted for third party. I mean, I think Johnson got like 3% of the popular vote, but it's 3rd parties fault that Hillary lost.

It's not. Hillary lost against a powderpuff candidate because she ran a **** campaign, because she had serious character and credibility issues with America, because she didn't do a good enough job. She lost because she failed. End of story. Everything was set up for her win, so I understand why some people are so upset about her loss. How could she, when the system was a perfect storm of events that seemed to be selecting her as next president? Because she f'd up. She didn't connect with the voters and States she needed to in order to win.

So with all this crying and finger pointing going around, now I'm starting to see this backlash against the third parties. We're told how insignificant we are and how we're throwing votes away all up until the point that we made your candidate lose. Piss off. If you wanted my vote, you have to put up a good candidate, one I can support; else I will vote third party. The failure isn't because people voted third party, it was because Hillary couldn't capture the votes.

And if we're just going to lash out at groups, how about the neigh half of eligible voters who didn't vote. Could have pulled from there, but didn't.

Yup. It's not our fault Hillary was a **** candidate.
 
how often do we hear people say it on THIS site...Libertarians are really just a bunch of greedy conservatives. right? So...THEY would have voted for Hillary if not for Johnson?

Hillary lost for the exact reason I said she would 2 years ago. She sucks as a candidate. Her own supporters...only a handful REALLY wanted her. She lost ground with the black vote and with the latino voters but most importantly...47% of the country were so repulsed they didnt even bother voting.

This was her election to lose, and she lost it. Plain and simple. It wasn't hate, it wasn't misogyny, it wasn't third parties. The deck was stacked in her favor and she lost because she was a bad candidate with a terrible campaign. People just want to point fingers and say the other guy did it, they don't want to own up to the simple truth. Hillary was a bad candidate, she had terrible character and trustworthiness problems, she couldn't bring people together, she couldn't energize her base, she couldn't pull the votes. A bad candidate with a bad campaign, and it was so bad that Trump actually won. It's the fault of the DNC and the Hillary campaign, no one else.
 
How Gary Johnson and Jill Stein helped elect Donald Trump - CNNPolitics.com



So this has been an election of excuses around the board. But the whining, the crying, the carrying on by some on the left, the riots and the assaults....good lord. And here's another bit of the "it's everyone's fault but mine" argument I've been seeing going around much more prevalently than I have seen in the past. People are starting to lash out at the very limited few of us who voted for third party. I mean, I think Johnson got like 3% of the popular vote, but it's 3rd parties fault that Hillary lost.

It's not. Hillary lost against a powderpuff candidate because she ran a **** campaign, because she had serious character and credibility issues with America, because she didn't do a good enough job. She lost because she failed. End of story. Everything was set up for her win, so I understand why some people are so upset about her loss. How could she, when the system was a perfect storm of events that seemed to be selecting her as next president? Because she f'd up. She didn't connect with the voters and States she needed to in order to win.

So with all this crying and finger pointing going around, now I'm starting to see this backlash against the third parties. We're told how insignificant we are and how we're throwing votes away all up until the point that we made your candidate lose. Piss off. If you wanted my vote, you have to put up a good candidate, one I can support; else I will vote third party. The failure isn't because people voted third party, it was because Hillary couldn't capture the votes.

And if we're just going to lash out at groups, how about the neigh half of eligible voters who didn't vote. Could have pulled from there, but didn't.

You are right that Clinton really messed herself. But it is also true that 3% of the vote would have pushed her over 50%
 
How Gary Johnson and Jill Stein helped elect Donald Trump - CNNPolitics.com



So this has been an election of excuses around the board. But the whining, the crying, the carrying on by some on the left, the riots and the assaults....good lord. And here's another bit of the "it's everyone's fault but mine" argument I've been seeing going around much more prevalently than I have seen in the past. People are starting to lash out at the very limited few of us who voted for third party. I mean, I think Johnson got like 3% of the popular vote, but it's 3rd parties fault that Hillary lost.

It's not. Hillary lost against a powderpuff candidate because she ran a **** campaign, because she had serious character and credibility issues with America, because she didn't do a good enough job. She lost because she failed. End of story. Everything was set up for her win, so I understand why some people are so upset about her loss. How could she, when the system was a perfect storm of events that seemed to be selecting her as next president? Because she f'd up. She didn't connect with the voters and States she needed to in order to win.

So with all this crying and finger pointing going around, now I'm starting to see this backlash against the third parties. We're told how insignificant we are and how we're throwing votes away all up until the point that we made your candidate lose. Piss off. If you wanted my vote, you have to put up a good candidate, one I can support; else I will vote third party. The failure isn't because people voted third party, it was because Hillary couldn't capture the votes.

And if we're just going to lash out at groups, how about the neigh half of eligible voters who didn't vote. Could have pulled from there, but didn't.

They're also assuming those who voted 3rd party actually gave a **** whether it was Hillary or Trump that won. I can guarantee you those who voted 3rd party did not. They knew the candidate they supported had no chance to win and yet the DNC wants to whine that they would have won w/o the third party candidates. I don't think so as Fido would have gotten 3% of the write in vote if there were no 3rd party alternatives.
 
You are right that Clinton really messed herself. But it is also true that 3% of the vote would have pushed her over 50%

Only if all those 3% still voted if they hadn't voted for Johnson, and that they all voted for Hillary over Trump. Some pretty strong assumptions.
 
This was her election to lose, and she lost it. Plain and simple. It wasn't hate, it wasn't misogyny, it wasn't third parties. The deck was stacked in her favor and she lost because she was a bad candidate with a terrible campaign. People just want to point fingers and say the other guy did it, they don't want to own up to the simple truth. Hillary was a bad candidate, she had terrible character and trustworthiness problems, she couldn't bring people together, she couldn't energize her base, she couldn't pull the votes. A bad candidate with a bad campaign, and it was so bad that Trump actually won. It's the fault of the DNC and the Hillary campaign, no one else.
I kinda wonder if leftists will ever figure out that average Americans see and are pissed off by 'news' organizations as propaganda arms of the party. I wonder if they will recognize that MOST Americans arent as enamored by celebrities and celebrity endorsements as they are and in fact we are kinda turned off by it. I wonder if they will ever get that when you label people based on YOUR OWN personal bias and bigotry, all you do is turn allies or at least casual acquaintances into enemies.
 
I kinda wonder if leftists will ever figure out that average Americans see and are pissed off by 'news' organizations as propaganda arms of the party. I wonder if they will recognize that MOST Americans arent as enamored by celebrities and celebrity endorsements as they are and in fact we are kinda turned off by it. I wonder if they will ever get that when you label people based on YOUR OWN personal bias and bigotry, all you do is turn allies or at least casual acquaintances into enemies.

They will if they want to win. And in the end, I didn't see Sanders doing that. That was a tactic of Hillary because she had nothing of substance to run on.
 
A lot of johnson's support was from nevertrump conservatives anyway.

And Independents and even Democrats. Face it Democrats are at fault for their own loss by selecting Hillary and buy not showing up in numbers to vote. Is what is, dust yourselves off and regroup, two years from now the People may be willing to listen, depending on if the Repubs deliver or not.
 
Only if all those 3% still voted if they hadn't voted for Johnson, and that they all voted for Hillary over Trump. Some pretty strong assumptions.

I guess, we will never know. That they would not have voted for Trump, seems rather probable.
 
I guess, we will never know. That they would not have voted for Trump, seems rather probable.

True, it may be close to 50/50. I voted for Johnson, but I couldn't have voted for either Hillary or Trump. People can take the numbers and say, "if only all these people voted for X, then X would have won instead". But that's not the way it went down, and third parties aren't spoilers, not when almost half the eligible voters aren't voting. If Hillary could have energized her base better, if she could have reached out better, if she connected with the MidWest better, she would have won. But she didn't. This isn't on the people who voted for Johnson or Stein, this is fully on the shoulders of the DNC and Clinton.
 
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