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Colorado: Tied michigan: Tied new hampshire: Tied nevada: Tied pennsylvania: Tied

code1211 said:
Politicians are constantly working for only one goal and that goal is to be re-elected once in power. IF voter fraud is a practice that is believed to benefit one side or the other, you can quickly determine whom it favors by who opposes it.

I believe that a good voter fraud reduction policy would be to use that indelible ink to semi permanently dye people's fingers or whatever appendage is available lacking fingers.

So what if you have to have a purple finger for two months? It might become a sign of fashionable participation.

No need for a photo ID then. One man, one vote. At least to some extent. I suppose the truly dedicated could vote ten times given the right amputations.

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The left would come up with some excuse claiming a purple finger is some how racist or bigoted. Or make up some other kind of BS.
 
ashurbanipal said:
In what context? Athens famously endured some pretty violent coups and revolts in the 9th-6th centuries B.C.E., but I'm not aware of one having taken place during the classical period (but then, it's been quite a while since I studied the history of classical Athens). In general in the ancient world (Near East, Greece, Rome, Egypt, China), it was less common than one might think that a leader rose to power through violence. Of course, there definitely were such instances.
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There were not many career politicians in Ancient Greece. Also, the voting population was restricted to male land owners who had completed their military training and were not carrying debt to the state incurred personally or by their forbearers.

While it is held up as the first great experiment in democracy, it would not be so revered by today's proponents of democracy. The actual voting being based on skin in the game and responsibility to the city limited participation to less than 30%.

In our republican democracy, those who campaign most robustly to expand the right to vote seem to consistently omit the responsibilities half of the rights/responsibilities equation observed stringently in ancient Greece.
 
DamnYankee said:
The left would come up with some excuse claiming a purple finger is some how racist or bigoted. Or make up some other kind of BS.
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Given the presence of 5 fingers, it would seem appropriate to allow the voter to dip the finger of choice allowing for a protest of digital proportion. :)
 
code1211 said:
Politicians are constantly working for only one goal and that goal is to be re-elected once in power. IF voter fraud is a practice that is believed to benefit one side or the other, you can quickly determine whom it favors by who opposes it.

I believe that a good voter fraud reduction policy would be to use that indelible ink to semi permanently dye people's fingers or whatever appendage is available lacking fingers.

So what if you have to have a purple finger for two months? It might become a sign of fashionable participation.

No need for a photo ID then. One man, one vote. At least to some extent. I suppose the truly dedicated could vote ten times given the right amputations.

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Good idea, except that that those votes will change nothing in the EC and that is what counts.
 
Casper said:
Good idea, except that that those votes will change nothing in the EC and that is what counts.
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In this context, does "EC" refer to Europe?
 
Casper said:
Electoral College
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Ah-ha! Thank you.

If we assume that the Electoral College votes are based on the individual votes cast, then there is a direct link.
 
code1211 said:
Ah-ha! Thank you.

If we assume that the Electoral College votes are based on the individual votes cast, then there is a direct link.
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Not as tied to the popular as you seem believe.
 
Re: Colorado: Tied Michigan: Tied New Hampshire: Tied Nevada: Tied Pennsylvania: Tied

calamity said:
Not quite. But, Florida, NC and Nevada are tied, and Ohio is leaning heavily toward Trump. Hill of beans still has a firm grip on Michigan, Pen and Colorado...with NH being a bit less secure.
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She doen't have a firm grip on michigan, penn or nh, infact she is currently campaigning in mich which is something no democrat would do this close to election unless they were in absolute fear of losing t, she is also campaigning in penn and ohio. You would figure if she had those states secured she would be focusing on ohio and florida, not democrat safe states.

Currently rcp is shwing an extremely high possibilty that the election can end in 269/269, 538 admits most state poling is too far apart compared to national polling, and is even giving trump better odds of winning every day, since hillary is starting to slightly rebound nationally, she is still losing ground in individual states.
 
code1211 said:
Politicians are constantly working for only one goal and that goal is to be re-elected once in power. IF voter fraud is a practice that is believed to benefit one side or the other, you can quickly determine whom it favors by who opposes it.

I believe that a good voter fraud reduction policy would be to use that indelible ink to semi permanently dye people's fingers or whatever appendage is available lacking fingers.

So what if you have to have a purple finger for two months? It might become a sign of fashionable participation.

No need for a photo ID then. One man, one vote. At least to some extent. I suppose the truly dedicated could vote ten times given the right amputations.

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They do that in india, due to rampant voter fraud there, to verify who has already voted.
 
Re: Colorado: Tied Michigan: Tied New Hampshire: Tied Nevada: Tied Pennsylvania: Tied

beerftw said:
She doen't have a firm grip on michigan, penn or nh, infact she is currently campaigning in mich which is something no democrat would do this close to election unless they were in absolute fear of losing t, she is also campaigning in penn and ohio. You would figure if she had those states secured she would be focusing on ohio and florida, not democrat safe states.

Currently rcp is shwing an extremely high possibilty that the election can end in 269/269, 538 admits most state poling is too far apart compared to national polling, and is even giving trump better odds of winning every day, since hillary is starting to slightly rebound nationally, she is still losing ground in individual states.
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She's up 4 points in both MI and PA. Her fear in those two states is turnout. NH is within 2 points. It's truly a toss-up.

Ohio sees Trump up by 3. But, it's a reasonably secure three because he is expected to get high turnout here.
 
Re: Colorado: Tied Michigan: Tied New Hampshire: Tied Nevada: Tied Pennsylvania: Tied

calamity said:
She's up 4 points in both MI and PA. Her fear in those two states is turnout. NH is within 2 points. It's truly a toss-up.

Ohio sees Trump up by 3. But, it's a reasonably secure three because he is expected to get high turnout here.
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Up by 4 is not very good, just as you mentioned there is low turnout expected by her supporters, and given the margin of error, it is highly possible he could take atleast one of them, hence why she is campaigning there, she can afford to lose florida, she can not afford to lose mich penn colorado new hampshire etc, if he picks up 2 of her likely safe states, nh plus one of the others like colorado or michigan, she pretty much loses unless she gains florida, which is pretty much 50/50 atm. If she loses florida but keeps her safe states, she wins. If trump pulls off nevad nh florida etc, but fails to take a second safe state, it will end as 269/269.
 
eohrnberger said:
"make it more difficult for people with limited resources to vote"

Bought that BS did you?

Ask yourself this, how do these 'limited resources' people collect their government benefits without a picture ID?
That same picture ID is all that's being requested to be presented at the polling place.

This argument is facetious.
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Sure is!

DamnYankee said:
The left would come up with some excuse claiming a purple finger is some how racist or bigoted. Or make up some other kind of BS.
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They'd probably claim it was a White man's way of poisoning them! :lamo
 
Re: Colorado: Tied Michigan: Tied New Hampshire: Tied Nevada: Tied Pennsylvania: Tied

beerftw said:
Up by 4 is not very good, just as you mentioned there is low turnout expected by her supporters, and given the margin of error, it is highly possible he could take atleast one of them, hence why she is campaigning there, she can afford to lose florida, she can not afford to lose mich penn colorado new hampshire etc, if he picks up 2 of her likely safe states, nh plus one of the others like colorado or michigan, she pretty much loses unless she gains florida, which is pretty much 50/50 atm. If she loses florida but keeps her safe states, she wins. If trump pulls off nevad nh florida etc, but fails to take a second safe state, it will end as 269/269.
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I predict that no matter what happens on Tuesday, this battle will continue until June. Both sides are prepared to call the election rigged. Fun times.
 
Re: Colorado: Tied Michigan: Tied New Hampshire: Tied Nevada: Tied Pennsylvania: Tied

calamity said:
I predict that no matter what happens on Tuesday, this battle will continue until June. Both sides are prepared to call the election rigged. Fun times.
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Indeed, I figured it would be close, but never this close. I figured if trump wuld win it would be from a surprise turnout of voters election day, not from polls actually showing him having a chance.

And if we get a 269/269, all hell will break loose, and make 2000 election recounts look like childs play.
 
eohrnberger said:
Ask yourself this, how do these 'limited resources' people collect their government benefits without a picture ID?
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I have no idea, but I also don't know that they do. Do you have any data to suggest that people likely to be disenfranchised by Voter ID laws also collect government benefits, and need a photo ID to do so?
 
DamnYankee said:
Your obvious choosing to be uninformed. Sad.
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In my post, I called for reading information and guarding against personal bias. How does that lead to choosing to be uninformed?

DamnYankee said:
How much voter fraud is acceptable? A little?
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Acceptable in what sense? Morally, none is acceptable. However, as a matter of practical concern vis-a-vis the question of how much money, time, and effort do we want to put into enforcement efforts, some can be permitted before taking unusually strong action. If, say, 100 people commit vote fraud in a Presidential election, it's probably not worth enacting new laws to stop them. If it's thousands of people, it depends on circumstances. Above that--if, say, 50,000 people are commiting vote fraud every Presidential election, then it is worth at least reviewing the situation and possibly taking action. If roughly half the spread in any given election was due to vote fraud, then action definitely needs to be taken, but there's no evidence we're anywhere near that point.
 
code1211 said:
Politicians are constantly working for only one goal and that goal is to be re-elected once in power.
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I don't know that's completely true, at least if your claim is that this is the only goal of all politicians.

code1211 said:
IF voter fraud is a practice that is believed to benefit one side or the other, you can quickly determine whom it favors by who opposes it.
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The same is true of just about anything, including laws against voter fraud. Perhaps vote fraud really does put more democrats in office than it should. So far, there's no evidence that's the case. There is, however, evidence that proposed voter ID laws would disproportionately disenfranchise minorities and the poor, and that this is the intent of at least some of the lawmakers who have proposed such laws.

code1211 said:
I believe that a good voter fraud reduction policy would be to use that indelible ink to semi permanently dye people's fingers or whatever appendage is available lacking fingers.
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If there's evidence that we need to enact stronger measures against vote fraud, I'd be in favor of something like this. So far, all the actual evidence I see of vote fraud suggests it remains at a pretty low level, and not nearly enough to swing an election. But I haven't read everything, so if such evidence does exist, you can sign me up on this.
 
Re: Colorado: Tied Michigan: Tied New Hampshire: Tied Nevada: Tied Pennsylvania: Tied

The Daily Caller is a right wing propaganda organ.

Everything that it puts out must be heard with that in mind.
 
ashurbanipal said:
I have no idea, but I also don't know that they do. Do you have any data to suggest that people likely to be disenfranchised by Voter ID laws also collect government benefits, and need a photo ID to do so?
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I also know that free voter ID cards are issued by states for free.
If you are someone who is a 'limited resources' person, all you have to do is care enough about voting to go get one.

I'm seeing no voters being disenfranchised by Voter ID laws.
 
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