College Students Describe What a Conservative Is

fmw said:

I don't know a single conservative that thinks there is no poverty or racism. Perhaps you know a different group than I know. Conservatives believe in personal responsibility. If a person is poor, conservatives believe in helping the person make a living. They don't believe in paying them not to make a living. It isn't a lack of recognition of problems. It is a difference of opinion of how best to help. You prefer the handouts. I get it.

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They know it exists in concept. However, when individual instances occur, they will have often denied the existence of racism or other systemic barriers in that scenario.

Fiddytree said:

They know it exists in concept. However, when individual instances occur, they will have often denied the existence of racism or other systemic barriers in that scenario.

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It is an opinion but not one I have encountered except in rare instances.

Paschendale said:

No, I meant denial. Telling people to "take responsibility" as if there is nothing else holding them back, is denying the deal problems faced by struggling people. Pretending that there is no cycle of poverty and no systematic racism or sexism is one of the biggest flaws in right wing ideology. It cannot ever create a solution to our problems, because it refuses to acknowledge what many of those problems actually are.

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I think there are things that we can do to help people but at the same time many of these people have become soft and entitled. When I was going through college I worked full time, took classes full time and rode my bike to work and all my classes. I remember falling asleep in the library when I was supposed to be studying because I was exhausted. So yea, there is some legitimacy to "take responsibility", there is nothing wrong with hard work and dedication. Don't belittle that idealism.

fmw said:

I don't know a single conservative that thinks there is no poverty or racism. Perhaps you know a different group than I know. Conservatives believe in personal responsibility. If a person is poor, conservatives believe in helping the person make a living. They don't believe in paying them not to make a living. It isn't a lack of recognition of problems. It is a difference of opinion of how best to help. You prefer the handouts. I get it.

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You might "believe" in that, but conservative policies don't do that. Liberal policies, like making education and healthcare affordable to poor people, getting proper sex education and distribution and birth control to poor people, and giving people a safety net for when they fall on hard times, actually do that. You dismiss things that actually help by calling them "handouts", as if they're gifts to the undeserving.

And yes, conservatives deny a lot of real problems. You don't deny that racism exists, but you deny that it is a widespread problem that keeps poor minorities from enjoying the same opportunities that you and I enjoy every single day. You deny that it is omnipresent, and instead relegate it to acute examples. You do the same thing with systematic sexism and homophobia.

blaxshep said:

I think there are things that we can do to help people but at the same time many of these people have become soft and entitled. When I was going through college I worked full time, took classes full time and rode my bike to work and all my classes. I remember falling asleep in the library when I was supposed to be studying because I was exhausted. So yea, there is some legitimacy to "take responsibility", there is nothing wrong with hard work and dedication. Don't belittle that idealism.

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There is nothing wrong with hard work and dedication. You need to do that, in fact. Nobody denies that you must work hard to succeed. But the fallacy is the idea that poor people don't work hard and aren't dedicated. No, the vast majority do not become soft and entitled. The vast majority work their asses off. But all hard work is not created equal, and there is plenty of hard work that still leaves you poor. THAT is the biggest problem. You can work hard and be dedicated and still get left behind. That is the real story for much of the lower class in this country, not complacency because they get food stamps, but rather frustration that they still need food stamps despite working fifty or sixty hours a week.

Paschendale said:

You might "believe" in that, but conservative policies don't do that. Liberal policies, like making education and healthcare affordable to poor people, getting proper sex education and distribution and birth control to poor people, and giving people a safety net for when they fall on hard times, actually do that. You dismiss things that actually help by calling them "handouts", as if they're gifts to the undeserving.

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We already know that the handouts don't work. We've been waging a war against poverty for decades with not a lick of progress. Government can't fix poverty and neither can the private sector. At best we can relieve some of the pain. Conservatives would work on strengthening the economy so that businesses can create more jobs and swing the supply/demand curve more in favor of the employed. Conservatives aren't against safety nets as a temporary assistance to people fallen on hard times. Conservatives are against safety nets as a life style. We view what you want as issues that go beyond the appropriate role of government. Before government took them over, they were handled by charity, church and family. I and others think that is where these things belong, not in government.

I don't think there is so much a disagreement about the problems as there are disagreements on how they should be handled. But I said that before to no avail.

Conservatives want to move people away from an attitude of, "My life sucks...what is the government going to do to make it better?"...to an attitude of, "My life sucks...what can I do to make it better?".

But it's been damned hard to get people to make that move because the left tries so hard to get them to have that first attitude.

fmw said:

We already know that the handouts don't work. We've been waging a war against poverty for decades with not a lick of progress. Government can't fix poverty and neither can the private sector. At best we can relieve some of the pain. Conservatives would work on strengthening the economy so that businesses can create more jobs and swing the supply/demand curve more in favor of the employed. Conservatives aren't against safety nets as a temporary assistance to people fallen on hard times. Conservatives are against safety nets as a life style. We view what you want as issues that go beyond the appropriate role of government. Before government took them over, they were handled by charity, church and family. I and others think that is where these things belong, not in government.

I don't think there is so much a disagreement about the problems as there are disagreements on how they should be handled. But I said that before to no avail.

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The fundamental misunderstanding you have is that we have not actually been doing very much to alleviate poverty. We've implemented band-aids to address some of the symptoms. We have never done anything towards the root causes that would constitute waging a war. Poverty is not necessary. It is a creation of our economic system.

Against safety nets as a "lifestyle"? Guess what, that is extremely rare and EVERYONE is against it. But conservatives use that as an excuse to strip the net from people who need it. And, "handled by charity, church and family"? No, people weren't taken care of by those things. That's why the government had to start doing it. Before social security, most senior citizens lived in poverty. Without the safety net, children starved. And, "strengthen the economy"? How exactly? The last big idea that conservatives had was supply side economics, which has been steadily destroying the middle class.

The things that you "know" aren't reality. They're right wing taking points. That is, as I said above, why right wing policies cannot solve any of our problems. Right wing policies are based on a different set of problems and a different set of facts than the ones that actually exist.

Mycroft said:

Conservatives want to move people away from an attitude of, "My life sucks...what is the government going to do to make it better?"...to an attitude of, "My life sucks...what can I do to make it better?".

But it's been damned hard to get people to make that move because the left tries so hard to get them to have that first attitude.

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Wrong. Our attitude is not "what is the government going to do to make my life better". It is "what are we going to do to make our lives better?" It is the plural. That's what matters. It takes collective action to improve the nation. It is not the acts of a few great individuals. It is collective action and collective investment in the collective good.

Paschendale said:

Wrong. Our attitude is not "what is the government going to do to make my life better". It is "what are we going to do to make our lives better?" It is the plural. That's what matters. It takes collective action to improve the nation. It is not the acts of a few great individuals. It is collective action and collective investment in the collective good.

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Well, that all sounds fine and dandy, but it's never "we"...it's "we the government".

Look, I wouldn't mind if groups of liberals got together, pooled their money and did something for people...on their own. But that's not how y'all operate. You get the government to use taxpayer money...or deficit spending...to do what YOU think should be done. If anyone doesn't agree with you and what you thing the "collective good" is, you just say, "too bad"...this is what you will do.

That's what I mean by "what is the government going to do".

Mycroft said:

Well, that all sounds fine and dandy, but it's never "we"...it's "we the government".

Look, I wouldn't mind if groups of liberals got together, pooled their money and did something for people...on their own. But that's not how y'all operate. You get the government to use taxpayer money...or deficit spending...to do what YOU think should be done. If anyone doesn't agree with you and what you thing the "collective good" is, you just say, "too bad"...this is what you will do.

That's what I mean by "what is the government going to do".

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The government is a tool by which to enact the will of the people (as tempered and filtered through the constitution). And your complaint about what we think should be done vs what you think should be done... that's how elections work. That's how democratic government works.

So really, your problem is that there are people in society who don't agree with you, and that what they want sometimes happens instead of what you want. You're not even acknowledging that almost all policy is crafted by experts. But no, it's the eeeevil liberals doing it, so it must be bad.

I don't even understand your complaint, other than complaining that you aren't alone in the world with complete power. You're complaining about society taking actions that aren't just about you. How dare you have to participate in the betterment of society. Get over yourself. This is why people think conservatives are just selfish gits.

But trust me on this, if you're a conservative, demographically, it's far more likely that other people's taxes are going to support you than the other way around.

Paschendale said:

Wrong. Our attitude is not "what is the government going to do to make my life better". It is "what are we going to do to make our lives better?" It is the plural. That's what matters. It takes collective action to improve the nation. It is not the acts of a few great individuals. It is collective action and collective investment in the collective good.

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Why is it that when socialists want to force people to do their will they have to run to the excuse of the collective? Did it ever occur to socialists that a collective based on coercion is hardly something to admire and push forward?

Paschendale said:

The government is a tool by which to enact the will of the people (as tempered and filtered through the constitution). And your complaint about what we think should be done vs what you think should be done... that's how elections work. That's how democratic government works.

So really, your problem is that there are people in society who don't agree with you, and that what they want sometimes happens instead of what you want. You're not even acknowledging that almost all policy is crafted by experts. But no, it's the eeeevil liberals doing it, so it must be bad.

I don't even understand your complaint, other than complaining that you aren't alone in the world with complete power. You're complaining about society taking actions that aren't just about you. How dare you have to participate in the betterment of society. Get over yourself. This is why people think conservatives are just selfish gits.

But trust me on this, if you're a conservative, demographically, it's far more likely that other people's taxes are going to support you than the other way around.

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LOL!!

You see...THIS is the big difference between conservatives and progressives....and I've said it before. You just reinforced my statement.

Progressives want to use the government to get what they want done...whether the people want it or not. (You support that statement)

Conservatives want the government to do what it's duties and responsibilities...as outlined in the Constitution...require and nothing more.

Henrin said:

Why is it that when socialists want to force people to do their will they have to run to the excuse of the collective? Did it ever occur to socialists that a collective based on coercion is hardly something to admire and push forward?

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A collective based on coercion? Interesting, you just described most large corporations.

blaxshep said:

A collective based on coercion? Interesting, you just described most large corporations.

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Can you perhaps expand on that?

Mycroft said:

LOL!!

You see...THIS is the big difference between conservatives and progressives....and I've said it before. You just reinforced my statement.

Progressives want to use the government to get what they want done...whether the people want it or not. (You support that statement)

Conservatives want the government to do what it's duties and responsibilities...as outlined in the Constitution...require and nothing more.

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Enacting the will of the people IS its duties and responsibilities. The constitution requires this. That's why we have legislative and executive power, instead of just having a court system to settle contractual disputes. The only way to have such a simplistic view of government is to have complete ignorance of law, economics, politics, and pretty much everything else important.

You want a fairy tale world that does not even remotely exist. And, of course, the people want a government that does things. You don't, but you lost the elections. Either you're just ignorant, or you're arguing against the very fundamentals of democracy.

Henrin said:

Can you perhaps expand on that?

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We need not go any further than lobbyist to expand on that, the force of wealth is a strong source of coercion on government policy. Then there is the force that such large wealth has on the free market. Large corporations set wages as well as prices for goods and services.

Paschendale said:

Enacting the will of the people IS its duties and responsibilities. The constitution requires this. That's why we have legislative and executive power, instead of just having a court system to settle contractual disputes. The only way to have such a simplistic view of government is to have complete ignorance of law, economics, politics, and pretty much everything else important.

You want a fairy tale world that does not even remotely exist. And, of course, the people want a government that does things. You don't, but you lost the elections. Either you're just ignorant, or you're arguing against the very fundamentals of democracy.

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You should read the Preamble. It doesn't say a thing about enacting the will of the people.

You guys on the left have bastardized the Constitution to enable YOU to control the people. You should be ashamed of yourselves.

Paschendale said:

The government is a tool by which to enact the will of the people (as tempered and filtered through the constitution).

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The govt is used as a tool by leftists to force their agenda on everyone. This is why so many leftists despise the constitution, its a hinderance to that agenda.