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Time to redo USA. From top to bottom. Redo all labor laws.............

274ina said:
You know nothing.

"Driving one home would be tough for the plant's newest workers, whose annual pay is less than the $35,000 it costs to buy even the cheapest Enclave. Newly hired members of the United Auto Workers at GM, Ford and Chrysler earn about $14 per hour, half what veterans make under their current contract."

Equal Pay. Equal work.

you think your so smart, but they are playing you and screwing you.

As the Tech labor suit has exposed. you need a union.
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Unfortunately,the unions have only themselves to blame, since it was their decision to insist upon the dual-wage thing in the first place, probably because they thought to protect older union members. If it has soured on them since then, it's up to them to correct that by renegotiating with the company on wages paid. Blaming the wage scale on the company is neither fair nor honest- they incur more bookkeeping expense for one thing, and would doubtless prefer a standard wage for job done, no matter who is doing it. It was the union that was being discriminatory - not the company.

Greetings, 274ina. :2wave:
 
274ina said:
Second Amendment works for workers too.....................And the right to kill murdering executives.
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defending ones self does not equate to murdering people. the fact that you right here endorse the murder of people is a bit extreme.

failed path? When are your rich friends going to pay back the billions for the BAILOUT?
When are they going to return the STOLEN homes of millions of people?
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They have already paid it back. except for GM and dodge. all the other place have paid back the government.
you mean the homes that people bought that they couldn't afford?

you do realize that you actually do not own your home until it is paid off right? your home technically belongs to the bank until you pay off the mortgage
same as a car. you do not own your car until you have it paid off and the title is yours.

Funny thing is, I am talking about WESTERN NATIONS. Your Communist fantasy, is just that. A fantasy. There has NEVER BEEN a communist country ever.
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old USSR, China, North Korea, Cuba, Venzuella all pretty much communist countries or close to it. you are free to move to any of those and live out your utopia.

the government tells you where you will work, what you get paid, where you can live, how much food you can buy and basically anything else you can think of. you don't have to think for yourself at all.

Workers do have employee first places to work, that even sell products i n USA. Like all japans cars. German cars. Iphones even, Germany gets 1/3 of the labor costs
in the iphone because of high tech training, and having a HAPPY workforce. (you will note China only gets 3% of labor costs because they only do final assembly and have slaves - Lagoia and Huku)
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no the company that makes them get 1/3 of the labor costs not the employee's. they have agreed contracts with their workers that they will make X dollar and hour.

china is a communist country though that is your entire utopia of what labor should be so why are you calling it slave labor then?
 
polgara said:
Unfortunately,the unions have only themselves to blame, since it was their decision to insist upon the dual-wage thing in the first place, probably because they thought to protect older union members. If it has soured on them since then, it's up to them to correct that by renegotiating with the company on wages paid. Blaming the wage scale on the company is neither fair nor honest- they incur more bookkeeping expense for one thing, and would doubtless prefer a standard wage for job done, no matter who is doing it. It was the union that was being discriminatory - not the company.

Greetings, 274ina. :2wave:
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your right the the older workers complained that newer guys shouldn't be making as much as they did or get all the same benefits.
 
274ina said:
The usual Free Trade lies.

MANAGEMENT put car makers in Bankruptcy. What does the worker have to do with RUNNING a company? NOTHING.

And the strike has been removed as a useful form of negotiation. And when only 10% of the workers are organized..................useless.

The rest bla bla bla
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Of course management did. They are the ones who decided to sign union contracts committing themselves to high cost-low quality union labor instead of just outsourcing like any decent management team would of.
 
DVSentinel said:
Owners own their companies and should have the right to do with them as the please and not have to tolerate interference from the unwashed, uneducated and selfish masses that form unions.
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Nice to see how much respect for you have for your fellow citizens. Perhaps one of these days you should go to a post-industrial town in Michigan, and tell the folks there that they are unwashed, uneducated, and selfish. ;)

Employees are not slaves, nor are they mindless automatons. Owners and managers are not masters. Neither group has unlimited rights or powers over the other.

We should also remember that while unions are far from perfect, they've done a lot of good for American workers. They made the 40-hour work week routine, they enabled all sorts of worksite protections for employees, they gave lots of American workers a good solid middle-class living for many years. And we can see how crappily many employers treat non-union laborers.


You talk of Walmart, yet I've know people who worked for them and never complained about it, in fact liked it.
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So, you know what, a dozen of the 2 million people who work for Walmart? Let's see what some of the other employees say about Walmart.

Workers Accuse Walmart Of Exploiting An Agreement To 'Unleash A New Round Of Intimidation' - Business Insider
Walmart Strikes: More Workers Join Fight In Oklahoma, Claim Intimidation
Wal-Mart Employees Rip the Company on Its Own Internal Website

And some blasts from the past:
Walmart Illegally Disciplined Or Fired Employees Who Protested Against The Company, Feds Say | Fox News Latino
Workers Tell OSHA They Were Locked Inside Target Stores Overnight | The Nation
Employees Sue Wal-Mart for Overtime - ABC News
Workers Assail Night Lock-Ins By Wal-Mart - NYTimes.com

The above is about 2 minutes on Google.

Not everything Walmart does is abject evil. Not every Walmart will be managed identically to the other. But I have no problem calling Walmart on the instances where they don't treat employees well. Nor do I buy the excuse that Walmart is weeding out the chaff, like pre-meds in Organic Chem.


You are incorrect on the oil companies. Exxon merged with Mobil making exxon-mobil. Texaco originally tried to merge with Shell but is now merged with chevron. Conoco-Phillips is now one company and they also own Union 76 and possibly Valero (I've seen Conoco-Phillips trademarks at their stations) and part of Lukoil. Just because you see the name on station doesn't mean it is actually not owned or part of it's competitors.
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I did mention the Exxon-Mobil merger. Shell is the largest oil company in the world, based on revenues. Both Lukoil and Valero are independent. So basically, I missed what, one merger? Wow. Yes, obviously competition has dramatically shrank in every industry in the last 10 years, because a few oil companies merged! :mrgreen:

At any rate, let's try to get this back on track. Employees aren't getting screwed because of changes in competition. There are lots of reasons, including but not limited to:
• Increases in productivity, which means employers need fewer employees
• Increases in automation, outsourcing, JIT which also mean fewer employees needed
• Women entering the work force in large numbers, starting around the 1970s, which resulted in an expansion of the labor pool
• An increasing emphasis on shareholder capitalism
• Shifts from a manufacturing economy to a service economy
• And yes, the weakening position of unions
 
Visbek said:
Nice to see how much respect for you have for your fellow citizens. Perhaps one of these days you should go to a post-industrial town in Michigan, and tell the folks there that they are unwashed, uneducated, and selfish. ;)

Employees are not slaves, nor are they mindless automatons. Owners and managers are not masters. Neither group has unlimited rights or powers over the other.

We should also remember that while unions are far from perfect, they've done a lot of good for American workers. They made the 40-hour work week routine, they enabled all sorts of worksite protections for employees, they gave lots of American workers a good solid middle-class living for many years. And we can see how crappily many employers treat non-union laborers.



So, you know what, a dozen of the 2 million people who work for Walmart? Let's see what some of the other employees say about Walmart.

Workers Accuse Walmart Of Exploiting An Agreement To 'Unleash A New Round Of Intimidation' - Business Insider
Walmart Strikes: More Workers Join Fight In Oklahoma, Claim Intimidation
Wal-Mart Employees Rip the Company on Its Own Internal Website

And some blasts from the past:
Walmart Illegally Disciplined Or Fired Employees Who Protested Against The Company, Feds Say | Fox News Latino
Workers Tell OSHA They Were Locked Inside Target Stores Overnight | The Nation
Employees Sue Wal-Mart for Overtime - ABC News
Workers Assail Night Lock-Ins By Wal-Mart - NYTimes.com

The above is about 2 minutes on Google.

Not everything Walmart does is abject evil. Not every Walmart will be managed identically to the other. But I have no problem calling Walmart on the instances where they don't treat employees well. Nor do I buy the excuse that Walmart is weeding out the chaff, like pre-meds in Organic Chem.



I did mention the Exxon-Mobil merger. Shell is the largest oil company in the world, based on revenues. Both Lukoil and Valero are independent. So basically, I missed what, one merger? Wow. Yes, obviously competition has dramatically shrank in every industry in the last 10 years, because a few oil companies merged! :mrgreen:

At any rate, let's try to get this back on track. Employees aren't getting screwed because of changes in competition. There are lots of reasons, including but not limited to:
• Increases in productivity, which means employers need fewer employees
• Increases in automation, outsourcing, JIT which also mean fewer employees needed
• Women entering the work force in large numbers, starting around the 1970s, which resulted in an expansion of the labor pool
• An increasing emphasis on shareholder capitalism
• Shifts from a manufacturing economy to a service economy
• And yes, the weakening position of unions
Click to expand...

I didn't say employees were slaves. They work for the contracted rate and benefits and that is all that is owned them. The owner should have the right to fire anyone of them anytime he pleases for what ever reason. He owns the company, he is not obligated to provide employment for anyone. He does so because he needs it and he should only be paying market value for it.

And who gives a **** what X million Liberals and Unionist say about walmart. They think walmart sucks because they refuse to pay top tier wages to bottom tier employees. If they don't like how walmart treats them, then they are free to seek employment elsewhere anytime they want. "Fair" is walmart paying the agreed upon salary (they accepted that rate when they chose to work there) for the agreed upon labor, anything else is just bull**** in the eyes of socialist unionist.

Increase in productivity means less employees? Oh, you mean they shed off useless wastoids and keep competent workers.
Maybe if workers, especially unionised ones didn't cost so much while doing so piss poor of a job, then there wouldn't be as much automation and outsourcing.
Increased competition in the labor market, good for business, bad for pay. Tough ****.

Increasing emphasis on shareholder capitalism? Ok, so your spouting off socialist nonsense that anyone with a working brain knows is nothing but stupid bull****. Go ahead, prove that shareholder capitalism the economy. Not just your opinions but actual facts.

Shifts from a manufacturing economy is taking place because of the high cost and low quality of union employees, which is a leading cause, along with regulation and taxes, of why more and more manufacturing jobs have been automated and outsourced. If current technology pans out, we should see a giant shift in automating service jobs also.

No, you didn't miss "one merger" you demonstrated a complete ignorance of the industry.
 
At any rate, let's try to get this back on track. Employees aren't getting screwed because of changes in competition. There are lots of reasons, including but not limited to:

• Increases in productivity, which means employers need fewer employees...yep....i for one train people to work smarter not harder....i am a systems guy, and changing up how things are done can make a huge difference in productivity


• Increases in automation, outsourcing, JIT which also mean fewer employees needed...yep...technology creeps in and machine replace workers....you cant stop time

• Women entering the work force in large numbers, starting around the 1970s, which resulted in an expansion of the labor pool....actually starting before the 70's but it added an immense labor pool to choose from....and employer's got pickier...because we can

• An increasing emphasis on shareholder capitalism....well get back to this one


• Shifts from a manufacturing economy to a service economy...yep...labor in other parts of the world became very cheap....and even including shipping, it cut manufacturing costs by large %....so instead of building things, we pay people to fix and repair


• And yes, the weakening position of unions

unions starting getting weaker decades ago.....many many reasons....stopped caring about the workers....stopped caring about the health of the company....paid more attention to retaining bad employees, then getting them out and getting good ones in....collecting dues but not really doing anything for the worker....

you can agree or disagree with some or all of those points....but unions are going the way of the dodo bird (extinction)

but none of these are causing the employee to get "screwed" as you put it

you as the worker trade me your intellectual or physical labor, and i in return give you dollars for that effort....it is a contract , pure and simple

how much to replace you is the ONLY relevant question.....i dont give a **** what you want to earn (it doesnt matter to me)

i have a job that needs done....and i will find someone with the requisite skills to do that job

the only question is how much do i have to pay them for that service
 
PoS said:
If you want to redo America right get rid of all entitlements, regulations and income tax, that will enable people to have lots of money to spend and stimulate the economy and eliminate the deficit overnight.
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I think that is very naive. What will happen is that it will enable people with lots of money to squeeze even more money out of the middle class and poor, and create even a bigger oligarchy.
 
polgara said:
Unfortunately,the unions have only themselves to blame, since it was their decision to insist upon the dual-wage thing in the first place, probably because they thought to protect older union members. If it has soured on them since then, it's up to them to correct that by renegotiating with the company on wages paid. Blaming the wage scale on the company is neither fair nor honest- they incur more bookkeeping expense for one thing, and would doubtless prefer a standard wage for job done, no matter who is doing it. It was the union that was being discriminatory - not the company.

Greetings, 274ina. :2wave:
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LOL lies an propoganda. Forced on them at the end of a gun.
 
Quote Originally Posted by 274ina View Post
Second Amendment works for workers too.....................And the right to kill murdering executives.


defending ones self does not equate to murdering people. the fact that you right here endorse the murder of people is a bit extreme.


Name me one incident of any union attacking company people FIRST. Since 1880.
 
ecofarm said:
Well, I got a couple things.
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you only THINK you do.

the 1% own 90% of every thing.
Their 9% lackys own say 5%.

Leaving NOTHING in every pension fund, every 401 k in the USA.

its an illusion, to make you THINK you have something....................
 
274ina said:
you only THINK you do.

the 1% own 90% of every thing.
Their 9% lackys own say 5%.

Leaving NOTHING in every pension fund, every 401 k in the USA.

its an illusion, to make you THINK you have something....................
Click to expand...

I got stuff I can sell.
 
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