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Noam Chomsky: A Surveillance State Beyond Imagination Is Being Created in One of the

Re: Noam Chomsky: A Surveillance State Beyond Imagination Is Being Created in One of

And within 3 pages, the reason why government has been allowed to go as far beyond the Constitution as it has, is pretty obvious.

And within 3 pages, 847 illegal aliens have crossed the border into America...the national debt has increased by millions of dollars...and our actions overseas have created more hatred against our country....etc etc

The system is completely broken. This "Republican vs. Democrat" thing is a complete failure. Nothing useful ever gets done. No real problems ever get solved. Any citizen that believes he is helping things by "voting" for either party is dumber than a WWE Wrestling fan.
 
Re: Noam Chomsky: A Surveillance State Beyond Imagination Is Being Created in One of

In a nutshell, Chomsky is infamous for his tendentious accounts of American history. For example, his accounts of American activities in South America just sort of ignore the fact that there was a Cold War on at the time and that American actions were in response to aggressive Soviet efforts to increase their influence there. The USSR was trying to cut the US off from resources and kill it. In Chomsky's way of thinking the US is just greedy and evil, and that was our only motivation for moving to limit Soviet inroads there. If he mentions the USSR at all he minimizes the threat they represented or claims that there was no threat at all.

1) Anyone not associated with the government or a flag lapel wearing statist who tells U.S. History is tendentious. Why is that? Because a fuller version of it gets told, not just the platitudes & words spoken by government officials to the general public but official documents that the powers-that-be would wholeheartedly prefer never see the light of exposure.

2) Yeah, some of our responses were to combat an encroaching USSR, but not all of them. Some of our actions were at the behest of U.S. corporations, like the United Fruit Company.

3) I'm no USSR or communist fanboy, but when folks say that they were invading our space they typically leave out the part, quite conveniently, that the U.S. was encircling them too.

4) What country isn't greedy or hasn't displayed evil tendencies? The version of America that is taught in grade schools across the U.S. as a monolith of good, justice & protector of human rights everywhere is a propaganda created myth.

5) The Soviet threat was over-exaggerated. The so-called bomber & missile gaps, the mammoth Red Army, etc. Now, that's not to say that they were not dangerous & a geopolitical foe, they were & still are, but that threat was magnified to an alarming level. The Soviets were inferior to us in just about every important subject - the one that comes to mind that was in their advantage was espionage. Notwithstanding, many countries were ahead of us then in espionage, but that's only because our intelligence apparatus was in its infancy whereas our competitors had established outfits for many, many years.


Chomsky does tell an unflattering version of U.S. History. But what validates a great score of his views is that they originate from the established & credible media outlets that span the globe. He just compiles a great number of them under one roof.
 
Re: Noam Chomsky: A Surveillance State Beyond Imagination Is Being Created in One of

That's some quote.

But how, exactly, is the NSA violating the 4th amendment? I would like to know what facts are available regarding this rather than a bunch of speculation.

No offense is intended here, but have you been M.I.A. since last summer? If yes, a man named Edward Snowden, who worked for the N.S.A., fled the U.S. and took with him an abundance of documents he subsequently gave to journalists like Glenn Greenwald who subsequently published them in newspapers like The Guardian, The New York Times, The Washington Post, The Los Angeles Times etc. It caused quite the uproar around the world.
 
Re: Noam Chomsky: A Surveillance State Beyond Imagination Is Being Created in One of

the government has us all under surveillance all the time; the NSA bosses say they don't do that sort of thing.

The fear is that the government or its surrogates (contractors) records every keystroke and every phone call in the country. Then they can go back later and use it if they need it. For anyone who read Orwell's book, "1984" knows the inevitable outcome. Those who have the information will eventually use it to nefarious ends. information is power, regardless how "innocent" one thinks he is. Make enough laws and nobody is innocent. Eleven-thousand new regulations last year, alone.

Snowden has said as much and the Utah Data facility hasn't been built for nothing. Snowden goes on to say they don't limit collection to active calls, but can record seemingly turned-off phones. If you are within visual or audio range of a cell phone, they may be recording. Every time the U.S. government denies one of Snowden's accusations, he releases more documents to prove them wrong.

How does this activity affect us as individual citizens?

Let's assume you are a model citizen, but for whatever reason, someone like Snowden gets mad at you? Maybe you cut him off in a parking lot? Someone with access to all this data? Someone who isn't afraid to use it? Now, they aren't supposed to, but Snowden claims he could listen to the president's calls without supervision, so who can say? All that information is a lot of power. Let's say our Snowden surrogate gets mad, so he searches your calls, emails and posts to this forum? If he finds something he can take out of context, you're then put on watch lists. If he can't, he records you banging your wife and posts it to your co-workers. I'm just throwing out possibilities. Once the data is stored and available, all sorts of mischief may ensue. Mischief that can cost you your job, your family and your life. Believe me, when some government underling decides to persecute you, you remain persecuted for a long time.

Computers that can collect all that data, can also process, filter and find relational links.

Is the average citizen at risk today? Maybe not, but soon the power and abuse grows. The record grows longer. The list of relationships grows longer. The government's intrusiveness grows. Their ability to convince the public grows. First a few are targeted. Dinesh D'Souza, for example - wrote and directed some high-production value movies unflattering to the president. Next thing you know, they charge D'Souza of some obscure campaign finance law. A law he wasn't even aware of. His leftist critics say the standard, "ignorance of the law is no excuse," but with eleven-thousand new laws every year, who can learn them all? You don't make movies, you say? But, you do post here on the forums. Soon somebody is in power who doesn't like your opinion (as Obama didn't like D'Souza's). Soon, you are up on charges, real or imagined.

The die is cast when the laws and policies change to enable government abuse. Hitler took control in 1933, but it took six-years before he was attacking neighbors and a couple more, before he was running the ovens at full pace. The time to stop violations of the fourth amendment is when they first occur. If one waits for the internment camps, it's too late.
 
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Re: Noam Chomsky: A Surveillance State Beyond Imagination Is Being Created in One of

And within 3 pages, 847 illegal aliens have crossed the border into America...the national debt has increased by millions of dollars...and our actions overseas have created more hatred against our country....etc etc

So it's clearly better for people to just whine about when things 'started' rather than stand up against their government doing wrong… right? :roll:
 
Re: Noam Chomsky: A Surveillance State Beyond Imagination Is Being Created in One of

1) That's too invasive. No government entity or any other so-called concerned party needs to know what you or I are doing on the Internet or who we're talking to on the phone. The use of resources to conduct generalized warrantless searches could be put to better use. Take DP & Stormfront as an example. Which one needs to be monitored?

2) Sounds somewhat practical but government officials would never go for it let alone vote to have themselves surveilled.

(1) I realize there is some difference of opinion in this. Personally I think I would be happy if my whereabouts were known by a phone call I made, if it proved I hadn't been on the site of a crime.

(2) I think you are very wrong on that point. Nixon was caught, because his actions were recorded and it it quite normal to record every phone call on trading floors and in other financial jobs. I have never had a problem with it.
 
Re: Noam Chomsky: A Surveillance State Beyond Imagination Is Being Created in One of

(1) I realize there is some difference of opinion in this. Personally I think I would be happy if my whereabouts were known by a phone call I made, if it proved I hadn't been on the site of a crime.

(2) I think you are very wrong on that point. Nixon was caught, because his actions were recorded and it it quite normal to record every phone call on trading floors and in other financial jobs. I have never had a problem with it.

Nixon willingly had recording devices put into the Presidential desk. Doing things willingly or having things forced upon someone are two separate things.
 
Re: Noam Chomsky: A Surveillance State Beyond Imagination Is Being Created in One of

Nixon willingly had recording devices put into the Presidential desk. Doing things willingly or having things forced upon someone are two separate things.

You cannot work on an institutional sales desk or a trading desk without having your calls recorded. And to tell you the truth, you would have to be crazy not to have it recorded. Anything important done by phone can become critical. It would be crazy not to want proof of what was said.
And to be honest, I would not want anyone to represent me that did not allow recording. What does he have to hide? Can't you rely on his word?
 
Re: Noam Chomsky: A Surveillance State Beyond Imagination Is Being Created in One of

You cannot work on an institutional sales desk or a trading desk without having your calls recorded. And to tell you the truth, you would have to be crazy not to have it recorded. Anything important done by phone can become critical. It would be crazy not to want proof of what was said.
And to be honest, I would not want anyone to represent me that did not allow recording. What does he have to hide? Can't you rely on his word?

Look, I'm not saying it shouldn't be done. I'm saying it won't be done. Why? Because yes, they do have something to hide.
 
Re: Noam Chomsky: A Surveillance State Beyond Imagination Is Being Created in One of

Noam Chomsky is very interesting. He is very wealthy and most of his wealth comes directly from the D.O.D.
 
Re: Noam Chomsky: A Surveillance State Beyond Imagination Is Being Created in One of

So it's clearly better for people to just whine about when things 'started' rather than stand up against their government doing wrong… right? :roll:

Nobody is "standing up" against anything. The majority are only concerned about a full belly and rooting for their particular "sports team". 9 out of 10 Americans are gutless turds.
 
Re: Noam Chomsky: A Surveillance State Beyond Imagination Is Being Created in One of

Look, I'm not saying it shouldn't be done. I'm saying it won't be done. Why? Because yes, they do have something to hide.

Then at least we are agreed that we should change their work contracts and strengthen our control mechanisms for jobs with power over citizens. The question is how.
 
Re: Noam Chomsky: A Surveillance State Beyond Imagination Is Being Created in One of

Self-righteous, pompous, arrogant people who think they make no mistakes get rounded up with the rest of us. Here are some typical examples. Many argue that virtually every American now violates three or more laws per day. Laws with serious consequences, including jail. So, take your holier-than-thou arguments to the federal prison, because anyone who advocates for the surveillance-state, should be first to go.

Then, after getting away with violating the fourth amendment, does one believe the government will stop? If we don't insist on our constitutional right in this instance, haven't we given it up in other instances? Why not let police enter your house 24/7? Search every day and night? Break down your door - at your expense. $200 to replace - every day and every night. Wake your children with guns drawn? Shoot them, if the police see one of the children make a "furtive movement?" Shoot the dog, that's a given. That's what you're asking for?

And if the Fourth amendment no longer applies, why do any of the others?
 
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