• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

The 1% are getting desperate.....................now they say they are "job creators"

Re: The 1% are getting desperate.....................now they say they are "job creat

Job CREATION is ONLY done by those willing to actually take the steps necessary. Businessmen create markets for products people never knew they had to have until they bought them. Cars...computers...mobile phones. Every new emerging technology begins with people that have the vision, foresight, and will to create successful businesses.

I am 'pretending' nothing. I have on several occasions pointed to the need for the entrepreneur to recognize POTENTIAL. But potential builds precisely squat. Potential sits around waiting for someone else to ACT.

..... and people willing to exploit what others (usually the public sector) have already done the initial investment on......
 
Re: The 1% are getting desperate.....................now they say they are "job creat

the "Idle rich" (whatever that is)

I think he is referring to business owners who are inactive with their business's day-to-day operations. They usually do engage in board meetings. They may participate in the hiring or firing of a CEO.

This really isn't that uncommon. When I was a teenager I worked at a Pizza joint. I never met the owner of the company. He was a mysterious legend that nobody really thought about much.

I worked at a furniture store for 8 years. The CEO is almost 80 years old. He can't even walk anymore but still comes into work every day. He has been running the business since he was 17 years old. Everybody in the community believes he is the owner. He isn't. His oldest brother owned the company. Now his nephew owns the company.

The company I work for now the owner stops by about once or twice a month to mess around with paper work. He doesn't even have an office here. The manager handles the operations. I think he does handle the financial aspects of the business. He is more active than the other scenarios that I stated. I think that is what 274Ina was trying to say.
 
Re: The 1% are getting desperate.....................now they say they are "job creat

I think he is referring to business owners who are inactive with their business's day-to-day operations. They usually do engage in board meetings. They may participate in the hiring or firing of a CEO.

This really isn't that uncommon. When I was a teenager I worked at a Pizza joint. I never met the owner of the company. He was a mysterious legend that nobody really thought about much.

I worked at a furniture store for 8 years. The CEO is almost 80 years old. He can't even walk anymore but still comes into work every day. He has been running the business since he was 17 years old. Everybody in the community believes he is the owner. He isn't. His oldest brother owned the company. Now his nephew owns the company.

The company I work for now the owner stops by about once or twice a month to mess around with paper work. He doesn't even have an office here. The manager handles the operations. I think he does handle the financial aspects of the business. He is more active than the other scenarios that I stated. I think that is what 274Ina was trying to say.

None of that justifies the idiotic calls for higher taxes on such people
 
Re: The 1% are getting desperate.....................now they say they are "job creat

None of that justifies the idiotic calls for higher taxes on such people

Taxes = bad Spending = good
 
Re: The 1% are getting desperate.....................now they say they are "job creat

..... and people willing to exploit what others (usually the public sector) have already done the initial investment on......
Yeah...about that. You arent going to want to hear this, but that top 10%? They paid the vast majority of the costs for that infrastructure as well. Just a basic fact. Most people dont pay enough in taxes to cover one of their kids teachers, let alone an entire school year. That top 10% carries the rest in every walk of life.
 
Re: The 1% are getting desperate.....................now they say they are "job creat

Most of the cost of iphones isn't the labor cost of assembling them.

Anyhow, even if the cost was double, people would still buy them, just not as many. If I remember correctly, the first iphones were $800 each and people bought them.

Lot's of things are still built in the US, by fairly well paid employees, and we still buy those products.

Well, so much for the great concern for equality there.
US minions in future US Apple plants slaving away not being able to afford the products they produce because the labor cost just doubled or tripled, AND the trade tariffs would be damaging the US economy, with all the tariff retaliation that would ensue.

Have to remember, the US is in the weaker position as they are a net importer with a significant trade deficit.
 
Re: The 1% are getting desperate.....................now they say they are "job creat

Yeah...about that. You arent going to want to hear this, but that top 10%? They paid the vast majority of the costs for that infrastructure as well. Just a basic fact. Most people dont pay enough in taxes to cover one of their kids teachers, let alone an entire school year. That top 10% carries the rest in every walk of life.

the top 10% also own 90% of the country's wealth while only paying 70% of taxes..... a disconnect exists there.

besides the reason they pay so much of the taxes is because they've rigged society to grant them the most wealth. if income inequality were lower then poor and middle class people would shoulder a greater percentage of tax burden.
 
Re: The 1% are getting desperate.....................now they say they are "job creat

Leaving aside the delicious irony of you calling me an idiot when you clearly demonstrate you haven't clue one as to what you're talking about -



Pre-Civil War African-American Slavery - American Memory Timeline- Classroom Presentation | Teacher Resources - Library of Congress

Yes all those cloths, Dr's, and vacation those slaves spend thier "income" on.............................
 
Re: The 1% are getting desperate.....................now they say they are "job creat

SO...do you LIKE being unemployed? Because in todays market, thats all that really means. There is a reason why so many businesses refuse to work with Unions and why so many local and state governments are scaling back. There is also a reason why so much unionized industry has gone overseas while at the same time so many foreign manufacturers have been successful in the US managing non Union plants.

yes slaves are always better for business................we know this. But that is no reason for the people of the USA to embrace being the slaves of the globalists.
 
Re: The 1% are getting desperate.....................now they say they are "job creat

Well, so much for the great concern for equality there.
US minions in future US Apple plants slaving away not being able to afford the products they produce because the labor cost just doubled or tripled, AND the trade tariffs would be damaging the US economy, with all the tariff retaliation that would ensue.

Have to remember, the US is in the weaker position as they are a net importer with a significant trade deficit.

which is entirely the result of allowing trade with countries that use sweatshop labor and devalue their own currency to trade with us.

if we had a larger manufacuring base as a result of trade protectionisn we'd have no trade deficit. Apple products would not double or triple in price..... that's corporate scaremongering. doubling or tripling the price would result in no one buying them so they wouldn't make any money selling them. they will then have to lower the price to the lowest point where they will sell for profit. which will be significantly less then 300% higher. if labor makes up enough of your margins in a mass production line that paying 20 dollars an hour will bankrupt a company turning out 10,000 300 dollar machines a day then someone f***ed up in accounting.

what it will result in is CEOs realizing they'll only have to make do with 100 times what their average worker makes, as opposed to 1500 times.....
 
Re: The 1% are getting desperate.....................now they say they are "job creat

And yet...prior to my actually DOING it...you didnt...others didnt...and it didnt magically appear. Funny...innit...
I or someone else did not what? Buy your services? Because they were not in the market?

Ya think?

And what......did your customers go without the services? No, they were buying them from somewhere else. You admitted your services were NOT UNIQUE.

Duh.

Again, you entered a market where those services existed, in a market where demand ALREADY EXISTED.
 
Re: The 1% are getting desperate.....................now they say they are "job creat

the top 10% also own 90% of the country's wealth while only paying 70% of taxes..... a disconnect exists there.

besides the reason they pay so much of the taxes is because they've rigged society to grant them the most wealth. if income inequality were lower then poor and middle class people would shoulder a greater percentage of tax burden.
You want "income equality" go earn it and stop thinking the rich are stealing your pennies or are somehow keeping you from succeeding. They arent.
 
Re: The 1% are getting desperate.....................now they say they are "job creat

I or someone else did not what? Buy your services? Because they were not in the market?

Ya think?

And what......did your customers go without the services? No, they were buying them from somewhere else. You admitted your services were NOT UNIQUE.

Duh.

Again, you entered a market where those services existed, in a market where demand ALREADY EXISTED.
Sorry pal...you didnt build that. The poor dont create jobs. Consumers dont create jobs. Potential doesnt create jobs. People that are willing to take risk and make the investment...they do. We do.
 
Re: The 1% are getting desperate.....................now they say they are "job creat

Just about everything that we buy has been brought to us by someone that had a business plan and acted on it. There might be some exceptions, but they're damned few. Do we really need banana slicers, salad shooters and Foreman grills? Diamond rings, smart phones, bluetooth earpieces, etc., etc., etc., etc., etc.,? Hell no. There was no groundswell of people with pitchforks demanding these things. There were people with ideas creating them and marketing them. Even today, it is very, very hard for any company to stay profitable by just producing what's already available. From pharmaceutical companies to car companies, if you don't keep coming up with "new and improved" ideas, you eventually end up out of business. Sure, consumers are necessary but, for the most part, most demand was created by business producing newer and cooler "stuff" that caught our fancy.
 
Re: The 1% are getting desperate.....................now they say they are "job creat

which is entirely the result of allowing trade with countries that use sweatshop labor and devalue their own currency to trade with us.

if we had a larger manufacuring base as a result of trade protectionisn we'd have no trade deficit. Apple products would not double or triple in price..... that's corporate scaremongering. doubling or tripling the price would result in no one buying them so they wouldn't make any money selling them. they will then have to lower the price to the lowest point where they will sell for profit. which will be significantly less then 300% higher. if labor makes up enough of your margins in a mass production line that paying 20 dollars an hour will bankrupt a company turning out 10,000 300 dollar machines a day then someone f***ed up in accounting.

Whether the price of Apple products double or triples is anyone's guess. The price of these products will be more dependent on the results from your proposed tariffs that you are not addressing. That would be how existing trading partners would respond to the US imposing those tariffs. Likely there would be retaliatory tariffs imposed, such as history teaches us.
Retaliation
Threats of retaliation began long before the bill was enacted into law in June 1930. As it passed the House of Representatives in May 1929, boycotts broke out and foreign governments moved to increase rates against American products, even though rates could be increased or decreased by the Senate or by the conference committee. By September 1929, Hoover's administration had received protest notes from 23 trading partners, but threats of retaliatory actions were ignored.[9]

In May 1930, the greatest trading partner, Canada, retaliated by imposing new tariffs on 16 products that accounted altogether for around 30% of U.S. exports to Canada.[15] Canada later also forged closer economic links with the British Empire via the British Empire Economic Conference of 1932. France and Britain protested and developed new trade partners. Germany developed a system of autarky.

Both Reed Smoot and Willis Hawley were defeated for reelection in 1932, the depression had worsened for workers and farmers despite their promises of prosperity with a high tariff.[16]

Economic effects
At first, the tariff seemed to be a success. According to historian Robert Sobel, "Factory payrolls, construction contracts, and industrial production all increased sharply." However, larger economic problems loomed in the guise of weak banks. When the Creditanstalt of Austria failed in 1931, the global deficiencies of the Smoot-Hawley Tariff became apparent.[14]

U.S. imports decreased 66% from $4.4 billion (1929) to $1.5 billion (1933), and exports decreased 61% from $5.4 billion to $2.1 billion, both decreases much more than the 50% decrease of the GDP. Thus, net exports declined from $1 billion to $600 million, while GDP was $58.9 billion.

According to government statistics, U.S. imports from Europe decreased from a 1929 high of $1,334 million to just $390 million during 1932, while U.S. exports to Europe decreased from $2,341 million in 1929 to $784 million in 1932. Overall, world trade decreased by some 66% between 1929 and 1934.[18]

Using panel data estimates of export and import equations for 17 countries, Jakob B. Madsen (2002) estimated the effects of increasing tariff and non-tariff trade barriers on worldwide trade during the period 1929-1932. He concluded that real international trade contracted somewhere around 33% overall. His estimates of the impact of various factors included about 14% because of declining GNP in each country, 8% because of increases in tariff rates, 5% because of deflation-induced tariff increases, and 6% because of the imposition of non-tariff barriers.

The new tariff imposed an effective tax rate of 60% on more than 3,200 products and materials imported into the United States," quadrupling previous tariff rates on individual items, but raising the average tariff rate to 19.2%, in line with average rates of that day.

Although the tariff act was passed after the stock-market crash of 1929, some economic historians consider the political discussion leading up to the passing of the act a factor in causing the crash, the recession that began in late 1929, or both, and its eventual passage a factor in deepening the Great Depression.[19] Unemployment was at 7.8% in 1930 when the Smoot–Hawley tariff was passed, but it jumped to 16.3% in 1931, 24.9% in 1932, and 25.1% in 1933.[20]
Smoot–Hawley Tariff Act

Your implicit assumption is that the US trading partners would not take any actions when the US imposes trade tariffs. That's not been the history of their reaction, as documented by history above, and it's more realistic that they'd take the same actions once again.

So unless Apple is capable of producing the Apple products from 100% US raw materials and assemblies, the most likely result is in fact a significant price increase due to retaliatory tariffs actions taken by trading partners.

Furthermore, it's also clear from history, that trade tariffs cause far more economic damage than produce any sort of economic advantage. Please read the 'Economic effects' section above.

The end result of imposed tariffs is that the US economy goes down, not up, I highlight from the article above: "declining GNP in each country" and "its eventual passage a factor in deepening the Great Depression.[19]". Even further, "effective tax rate of 60% on more than 3,200 products and materials imported", which probably made The Great Depression even worse and even longer, and would likely be the impact once again.

This is your economic recipe for strong US economic growth? Better to learn the lessons of history, my friend. No, trade protectionism is certainly NOT the way to weal the economy.

what it will result in is CEOs realizing they'll only have to make do with 100 times what their average worker makes, as opposed to 1500 times.....

You may very well comfort yourself with this delusion, but I highly doubt that the compensation market will make any significant alteration from current compensation rates, as this is market driven, and probably the result of distortion from some sort of government interference in that market.
 
Re: The 1% are getting desperate.....................now they say they are "job creat

Yes spending money is hiring people.

No it isn't. Hiring goes on where the money is spent, not by the spender. This is plain nonsense.

And its easy.

No kidding. Ask any member of Congress how easy it is.

Wage slaves (using full correct term) dont have extra money to spend. and so, dont support other jobs, and dont get services/products back.

I'm sorry. I'm not up on left wing slang. I'm more likely to talk about government handout slaves. Why would "extra" money support something that "non extra" money doesn't support? Very confusing statement and not in tune with economic realities.

Living wage people DO support other jobs, and DO get services and products for a normal life.

Oh, I get. You think I don't support a higher minimum wage? I'm talking economics and you're talking politics. Actually, what I don't support is government trying to run businesses. It is absolutely terrible at it. I'm all for people being paid more as long as the business can support it. But that still doesn't have anything to do with job creation.
 
Re: The 1% are getting desperate.....................now they say they are "job creat

No it isn't. Hiring goes on where the money is spent, not by the spender. This is plain nonsense.



No kidding. Ask any member of Congress how easy it is.



I'm sorry. I'm not up on left wing slang. I'm more likely to talk about government handout slaves. Why would "extra" money support something that "non extra" money doesn't support? Very confusing statement and not in tune with economic realities.



Oh, I get. You think I don't support a higher minimum wage? I'm talking economics and you're talking politics. Actually, what I don't support is government trying to run businesses. It is absolutely terrible at it. I'm all for people being paid more as long as the business can support it. But that still doesn't have anything to do with job creation.

Gov is the only reason all the "business" people are stil alive in 2014.

After the abuse for 100 years of the 19th century, murders, suffering, rip offs, The revolution of the people should have wiped you all out.

Gov hand out slaves like al lthe banks? $700 B for risky, fraudulant securities.

Oil corps?

Farming corps.........the list is endless........

Left wing slang from 100 years ago still has not sunk into your head.............here hope this helps.

Wage slavery - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

A really good part.

"It is want that compels them to go down on their knees to the rich man in order to get from him permission to enrich him . . "
 
Last edited:
Re: The 1% are getting desperate.....................now they say they are "job creat

Union middle class workers that have living wages to buy products and take vacations.

remember why Ford paid $5 day ( an outragusly high wage) so his people could buy his cars?

To be perfectly honest about it, I'm not that old. :roll:
 
Re: The 1% are getting desperate.....................now they say they are "job creat

Gov is the only reason all the "business" people are stil alive in 2014.

After the abuse for 100 years of the 19th century, murders, suffering, rip offs, The revolution of the people should have wiped you all out.

Gov hand out slaves like al lthe banks? $700 B for risky, fraudulant securities.

Oil corps?

Farming corps.........the list is endless........

Left wing slang from 100 years ago still has not sunk into your head.............here hope this helps.

Wage slavery - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

A really good part.

"It is want that compels them to go down on their knees to the rich man in order to get from him permission to enrich him . . "

:lamo You are a very angry person, aren't you?

I think you mean the top 100th of 1%. In fact, the top 1% create lots of jobs and other than the government and military, the top 5% probably are responsible for 90% of private sector jobs. Many of those are hoping to become in the top 1%.

My wife opened a business a few short years ago. Her and her partner rapidly moved way into the 1% income levels - though her partner already really way up there. They hired a lot of people. Paid more than anyone in the area for similar work. Even hired street people and ex-cons at higher than average wages. Others had jobs working elsewhere in supporting businesses. But it took too much time and she shut it all down mainly to get the government off her back and have her life back. Of course all jobs vanished. Therefore, you must conclude my wife is a very ethical person for stepping out of the top 1% income level, right? (Of course she socked away a bunch of $$ first - mostly offshore :lol:)

Anyway, what are you so angry about? What are you doing to try to get ahead? What after-hours extras do you do to get ahead $$ wise? And what excluded you from getting into the $$ game? If you don't have enough money what are you doing spending your time on a forum?
 
Last edited:
Re: The 1% are getting desperate.....................now they say they are "job creat

Henry Ford from what I read became a very creepy and very arrogant person who saw ordinary people as sheep who should be managed and shouldn't really have too much. He also almost destroyed Ford refusing to allow change or technological advancement.
 
Re: The 1% are getting desperate.....................now they say they are "job creat

Gov is the only reason all the "business" people are stil alive in 2014.

Actually it is amazing that business is still trucking along despite the war waged against it by government.

After the abuse for 100 years of the 19th century, murders, suffering, rip offs, The revolution of the people should have wiped you all out.

Gov hand out slaves like al lthe banks? $700 B for risky, fraudulant securities.

Oil corps?

Farming corps.........the list is endless........

Left wing slang from 100 years ago still has not sunk into your head.............here hope this helps.

Wage slavery - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

A really good part.

"It is want that compels them to go down on their knees to the rich man in order to get from him permission to enrich him . . "

As you mature you will begin to understand how nonsensical this diatribe is.
 
Re: The 1% are getting desperate.....................now they say they are "job creat

I love the left, they pay oodles of monies to go see entertainers making hundreds of millions then scream if a business even smells of money. How much money do the freaks in Hollywood make? How much money did the film "Titanic bring to liberals pockets? How much is Bob Dylan worth, Madonna, The Stones, etc. How much are the financial portfolios of the liberals in congress worth? Why pay to go see a pitcher with a $150,000,000 contract throw a ball? What about rappers, are they living in da hood still? Shut up liberal America, you are as phony as your ignorant president.
 
Re: The 1% are getting desperate.....................now they say they are "job creat

I love the left, they pay oodles of monies to go see entertainers making hundreds of millions then scream if a business even smells of money. How much money do the freaks in Hollywood make? How much money did the film "Titanic bring to liberals pockets? How much is Bob Dylan worth, Madonna, The Stones, etc. How much are the financial portfolios of the liberals in congress worth? Why pay to go see a pitcher with a $150,000,000 contract throw a ball? What about rappers, are they living in da hood still? Shut up liberal America, you are as phony as your ignorant president.

Where is the $700 BILLION bail out of Hollywood?

Tracking the $700 Billion Bailout - The New York Times

Compare hollywood to the size of the derivative market.........or executive pay........ie totally irrelivant.

Kepp your eyes on the real money people............dont get distracted by GOP propoganda like this...................
 
Back
Top Bottom