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Would raising the minimum wage actually create more jobs?

Maybe we shouldn't spend 20 to 40% more than we take in!


Anomalism said:
We can come up with the money needed through more means than just taking more from the rich. Maybe we shouldn't spend more on defense than the rest of the world combined, or maybe we should end the colossal failure that is the drug war.
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Harshaw said:
According to whom?

Weird; most people who would put Lenin as their avatar would argue that the poor can't be taxed because they literally have nothing to spare. And here you're declaring boldly that they'll have extra money saved.
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You didn't even mention the incongruity of the idea "the poor will save money if they get more money" with the other progressive argument of economic benefit because the poor would be spending more money. When both sides of the same argument are taken by the same people to support their agenda, you know the agenda is a crooked one.
 
Papa bull said:
You didn't even mention the incongruity of the idea "the poor will save money if they get more money" with the other progressive argument of economic benefit because the poor would be spending more money. When both sides of the same argument are taken by the same people to support their agenda, you know the agenda is a crooked one.
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At the same time complaining that it's because the rich are saving their money that the economy is screwed.
 
Papa bull said:
You didn't even mention the incongruity of the idea "the poor will save money if they get more money" with the other progressive argument of economic benefit because the poor would be spending more money. When both sides of the same argument are taken by the same people to support their agenda, you know the agenda is a crooked one.
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It's almost like people on the left have different ideas and believe different things. Who would have thought that the left isn't one giant homogenous idea?
 
Anomalism said:
It's almost like people on the left have different ideas and believe different things. Who would have thought that the left isn't one giant homogenous idea?
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You know.... you might have a point.... except that you lefties never contradict each other. You just thank each other for covering both sides of every argument.
 
Harshaw said:
At the same time complaining that it's because the rich are saving their money that the economy is screwed.
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I know. They're all over the place. It's like they just make up their facts as they go along and say whatever comes to mind without any regard for consistency or care for the truth.
 
Raising MW would do no such thing. Costs and prices would increase appropriately, and there would be very little gain left afterward.

Minimum wage is based on a set minimum standard of living. If you raise the wage and raise the standard, there is no marginal gain.

The same talent you had at junior varsity won't automatically make you a starter at the varsity level. The age goes up, but so does the talent required. It creates a wash, unless you make up the difference with longer weight room and practice hours.
 
Anomalism said:
It's almost like people on the left have different ideas and believe different things. Who would have thought that the left isn't one giant homogenous idea?
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If you don't even agree with each other, why should anyone follow you?
 
Harshaw said:
If you don't even agree with each other, why should anyone follow you?
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So you believe the left is not credible because they don't march in unison like the right does, but Papa Bull seems to think that it is actually the opposite, and that the left is not credible because all we do is agree with each other and compliment our nonsensical arguments. Which is it?
 
Anomalism said:
So you believe the left is not credible because they don't march in unison like the right does
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That's not what I said, and it's not what I asked you. You're the one trumpeting diametrically-opposed ideas as a feature, not a bug, so you tell me -- how do you sell anyone on it if you don't even agree yourself?
 
Harshaw said:
That's not what I said, and it's not what I asked you. You're the one trumpeting diametrically-opposed ideas as a feature, not a bug, so you tell me -- how do you sell anyone on it if you don't even agree yourself?
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Does everybody on the right agree on everything?
 
Harshaw said:
According to you, they "march in unison." Is that not correct?
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I don't think that is correct. I just assumed that was your belief since you used the left not agreeing on everything as a way to discredit them. Does the right agree on everything?
 
Anomalism said:
I don't think that is correct. I just assumed that was your belief since you used the left not agreeing on everything as a way to discredit them. Does the right agree on everything?
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Oh, so you say things you know to be untrue?

Of course you assumed. That's not a very fruitful way to go through life, nor is it anything approaching a valid debate tactic. I need not believe or not believe anything about "the right" to explore what you say about "the left."

So tell me, as you haven't -- why should anyone follow you if you don't agree with each other? What exactly does "the left" believe if it encompasses all these contradictory positions?
 
imagep said:
I am under the impression that Germany has fairly high wages already, even for entry level workers.

Is this not correct?
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It is suprising to most, but we have the lowest wages in the European average.

It is one of the things that keeps our economy so strong, but spending power low.
 
Harshaw said:
So tell me, as you haven't -- why should anyone follow you if you don't agree with each other? What exactly does "the left" believe if it encompasses all these contradictory positions?
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I don't believe it is true, but I said it because it obviously must be true (in your opinion) if the left is not credible because they don't all agree on everything. No, we don't agree on everything, and that fact does not remove credibility from the left. Most people on the left agree on a lot of things, but not everything, and the same is true for the right. You still never answered my question, though. Do you believe the right agrees on everything?
 
Harshaw said:
Oh, so you say things you know to be untrue?

Of course you assumed. That's not a very fruitful way to go through life, nor is it anything approaching a valid debate tactic. I need not believe or not believe anything about "the right" to explore what you say about "the left."

So tell me, as you haven't -- why should anyone follow you if you don't agree with each other? What exactly does "the left" believe if it encompasses all these contradictory positions?
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Well, I can help you with that. The left believes that the end justifies the means and that's why it doesn't matter whether their arguments are coherent, logical or coordinated. All that matters is that they get their way. That's why they can march in unison even though some say up is down and others say down is up. It doesn't matter to them which way either up or down is. What matters is that they get the wealth redistribution they desire by any means possible.
 
Anomalism said:
I don't believe it is true, but I said it because it obviously must be true (in your opinion) if the left is not credible because they don't all agree on everything.
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No, that's simply your inane assumption. You admitted such in your last post. Why are you backtracking on it now? I said nothing about "the right," because "the right" had nothing to do with what you said.


No, we don't agree on everything, and that fact does not remove credibility from the left.
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If you contradict each other, as you claim is not only true, but healthy, then what do you believe?


Most people on the left agree on a lot of things, and the same is true for the right, in my opinion.
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But there you were touting this disagreement on the Left as a good thing. Now, it's not so much?

You're having a lot trouble agreeing with yourself, let alone others on the Left.


You still never answered my question, though. Do you believe the right agrees on everything?
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:shrug: Of course they don't, but that, as I said, has nothing to do with anything about your claims concerning the Left. All it does is deflect. "He does it too!!!!!" doesn't excuse you.
 
Harshaw said:
No, that's simply your inane assumption. You admitted such in your last post. Why are you backtracking on it now? I said nothing about "the right," because "the right" had nothing to do with what you said.
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It was my assumption because logically it doesn't make sense that the left loses credibility for not having a homogenous mind, but the right does not. I assumed that if you believe the left isn't credible because of the fact that we don't all agree on everything, then that must mean that the right is not guilty of this, and does in fact agree on everything.

Harshaw said:
If you contradict each other, as you claim is not only true, but healthy, then what do you believe?
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What do I believe about what? Are you asking if I believe poor people spend money or save it? If so, I believe they would mostly spend it and try to save what they can.

Harshaw said:
But there you were touting this disagreement on the Left as a good thing. Now, it's not so much?
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One point of view is not a good thing. Multiple points of view bring things to the conversation that might not have been considered before.


Harshaw said:
:shrug: Of course they don't, but that, as I said, has nothing to do with anything about your claims concerning the Left. All it does is deflect. "He does it too!!!!!" doesn't excuse you.
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Why does the right not lose credibility for having disagreements, but the left does?
 
I guess people forget what minimum wage is suppose to be.
it is the lowest pay for the least skilled job.

If you want a living wage like some of these people want you to have then you have to go out and do something in order to get it.
that requires and education, training or certification of some kind.

that will allow you to earn a minimum wage. expecting 15 dollars for no skill and no education is obsurd and insulting to professionals.
 
ludin said:
that will allow you to earn a minimum wage. expecting 15 dollars for no skill and no education is obsurd and insulting to professionals.
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I think people who believe that simply raising the minimum wage will solve something are the same ones who think you can spend your way out of debt using borrowed money!
 
Anomalism said:
It was my assumption because logically it doesn't make sense that the left loses credibility for not having a homogenous mind, but the right does not. I assumed that if you believe the left isn't credible because of the fact that we don't all agree on everything, then that must mean that the right is not guilty of this, and does in fact agree on everything.
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Considering I said nothing about "the right," it was a poor assumption. Your lack of critical thinking is not my problem.



What do I believe about what?
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You tell me -- you keep contradicting yourself.


One point of view is not a good thing. Multiple points of view bring things to the conversation that might not have been considered before.
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So, when it's convenient, you're in agreement and consistent with each other, and when it's not, you're not? That's the only actual throughline of your entire sequence of argument.



Why does the right not lose credibility for having disagreements, but the left does?
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When did I say they didn't, or that they did? There's that critical thinking deficit again. The matter concerns what you said about the left, not your assumptions of what I think about the right. Not only is this sloppy thinking, it's laughably one-dimensional.
 
Anomalism said:
It was my assumption because logically it doesn't make sense that the left loses credibility for not having a homogenous mind, but the right does not. I assumed that if you believe the left isn't credible because of the fact that we don't all agree on everything, then that must mean that the right is not guilty of this, and does in fact agree on everything.



What do I believe about what? Are you asking if I believe poor people spend money or save it? If so, I believe they would mostly spend it and try to save what they can.



One point of view is not a good thing. Multiple points of view bring things to the conversation that might not have been considered before.




Why does the right not lose credibility for having disagreements, but the left does?
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* Minimum wage increases are good for the economy because the poor will save the extra money.

* Minimum wage increases are good for the economy because the poor will spend the extra money.

You can't have both arguments. Whichever one you take is undermined by the other and yet you don't see any reason to refute either argument.

I think it's obvious that you don't really know or care what raising minimum wage will REALLY do. You just want it to happen and any argument that supports it is OK with you. In other words, the end justifies the means and the arguments can be completely dishonest or false because they're just rationalizations for getting what you want.
 
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