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The rich get richer and the poor get poorer. Why?

Campbell said:
You're full of it.....why don't you shut up or prove it?

The president has ended one of the Bush wars....the unnecessary one, you remember...the missing WMDs and he's gonna shut down the other one next year.
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lol Well let's start with just the first two. Bill Gates......... Warren Buffett..... Let me ask you something, why is it, Warren Buffett, who's made all his net worth from capitalism, would be a poster child for the "fair share" idiocy? Hmmm...let's see, it COULDN"T be that prior to lending his support his financial group bought Burlington Northern railroad. The very same railroad that carries ALL oil field products the keystone pipeline would handle. Of course we know the present occupier of the White House has held up and continues to hold up approval of Keystone. Which also, just fyi, would provide THOUSANDS of *REAL* 'shovel ready" jobs. Of course the same people who are bemoaning "no jobs" are the ones supporting blocking Keystone.

LOL "the president has ended one of the Bush wars"..........so let me get this straight, you are saying we have NO troops in Iraq? You've already been called on this hundreds of times. How did the current gang of democrat hypocrites in D.C. vote on "authorization to use force"??? You are also claiming "next year" we'll have no troops in Afghanistan???

Btw.....since you're on the "war" thangy, how is the same person you adore going to arm rebels in Syria. The same people who eat the organs of their kills?? No wait in your world that won't cost a thing.
 
Campbell said:
You're full of it.....why don't you shut up or prove it?

The president has ended one of the Bush wars....the unnecessary one,
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LOL...

Are you another history revisionist?

You mean the war that president signed a SOFA agreement to end it by a specific timeframe? Instead, why don't you ask "Why didn't Obomba end that war sooner than the SOFA deadline?"
Campbell said:
you remember...the missing WMDs and he's gonna shut down the other one next year.
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You mean the WMD Syria used against the rebels?
 
shrubnose said:
Maybe because a lot of the poor are working for the rich, eh?
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Well, I suppose if one has a problem with that, one could always peddle one's labor to the poor, instead. I'm not clear on how that would be more profitable, though.
 
What if...? said:
Bear in mind that intellect, raw brain power, is the one trait that confers a true advantage.

The smartest of us are far smarter than the least of us.

When a stronger person a abuses their strength it is obvious to the one being abused.

Not so much when the smarter abuse the less so. The latter is often unaware its even happening.
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No one ever said we had to be equals. Raw intelligence does correlate with success, as it should. So where do you draw the line between people "abusing" their intelligence and people getting ahead simply because they are smarter then everyone else? I suppose that's where regulations come into play, to limit misdirection or misinformation, but beyond there isn't much to do other then allow smart people to be smart and dumb people to be dumb. You can't make dumb people as smart as smart people, so if you expect everyone to be equals the only possible way is to bring everyone down to the dumbest person's level.
 
What if...? said:
Look me in the eye and tell me the smartest person you know can't completely fool the least intelligent person you know if they chose to do so.
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Whose fault is that, exactly?
 
ReformCollege said:
No one ever said we had to be equals. Raw intelligence does correlate with success, as it should. So where do you draw the line between people "abusing" their intelligence and people getting ahead simply because they are smarter then everyone else? I suppose that's where regulations come into play, to limit misdirection or misinformation, but beyond there isn't much to do other then allow smart people to be smart and dumb people to be dumb. You can't make dumb people as smart as smart people, so if you expect everyone to be equals the only possible way is to bring everyone down to the dumbest person's level.
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My entire point was that this advantage must be addressed.

Regulations/laws do indeed help to accomplish this.

I said nothing about imposing equality.
 
ReformCollege said:
Whose fault is that, exactly?
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Since the less intelligent individual wouldn't be aware they were being fooled, the more intelligent one would be at "fault". His would be the aggressive act.

Bear in mind this is raw power, not knowledge/education. The ability to formulate and execute complex deceptions.
 
Papa bull said:
Well, I suppose if one has a problem with that, one could always peddle one's labor to the poor, instead. I'm not clear on how that would be more profitable, though.
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That's how the poor get richer, by getting other poor people to work for them.

It's happening right now, all over this planet.

I see it every day.

People do what they have to do to survive in this dog-eat-dog world.
 
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What if...? said:
My entire point was that this advantage must be addressed.

Regulations/laws do indeed help to accomplish this.

I said nothing about imposing equality.
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Alright, but where do you draw the line? If I get into college ahead of you because I was smarter, is that intellectual abuse? If I put you out of business because I was smarter and ran a better business, is that intellectual abuse? If I made money off of you without having to mislead you or give you misinformation, simply because I was smarter, is that intellectual abuse? If I end up stealing your beautiful, blonde girlfriend, because I was smarter then you, is that intellectual abuse? (These are all just scenarios, not tooting my own horn here :lol:). We have laws and regulations in place to deal with misinforming or misleading someone. But you seem to be saying "well problems arise when the smartest make the rules." Well how do you want the rules to be written? And by whom? You'd rather have a dumb moron writing the rules and regulations instead of the most qualified person for the job? There are some people who are always just going to be smarter then others, and who are going to get what they want because of it. That's human nature, humans evolved as the intelligent species, its natural for the most intelligent of the intelligent species to be among the fittest in survival.
 
What if...? said:
Since the less intelligent individual wouldn't be aware they were being fooled, the more intelligent one would be at "fault". His would be the aggressive act.

Bear in mind this is raw power, not knowledge/education. The ability to formulate and execute complex deceptions.
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Whose fault is it that they aren't aware that they are being fooled? Ignorance is not bliss, my friend.
 
shrubnose said:
That's how the poor get richer, by getting other poor people to work for them.

It's happening right now, all over this planet.

I see it every day.

People do what they have to do to survive in this dog-eat-dog world.
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The real secret to getting richer is simple: consume less than you produce. You can get richer by consuming less or producing more. More in terms of quantity or more in terms of value. Economics isn't a zero sum game, so it is actually possible for everyone to do better. Some people get it in their heads that someone else getting richer means everyone else must get poorer but that's driven by ignorance combined with very poor reasoning and probably more than a little of the unflattering emotion known as jealousy.
 
ReformCollege said:
Alright, but where do you draw the line? If I get into college ahead of you because I was smarter, is that intellectual abuse? If I put you out of business because I was smarter and ran a better business, is that intellectual abuse? If I made money off of you without having to mislead you or give you misinformation, simply because I was smarter, is that intellectual abuse? If I end up stealing your beautiful, blonde girlfriend, because I was smarter then you, is that intellectual abuse? (These are all just scenarios, not tooting my own horn here :lol:). We have laws and regulations in place to deal with misinforming or misleading someone. But you seem to be saying "well problems arise when the smartest make the rules." Well how do you want the rules to be written? And by whom? You'd rather have a dumb moron writing the rules and regulations instead of the most qualified person for the job? There are some people who are always just going to be smarter then others, and who are going to get what they want because of it. That's human nature, humans evolved as the intelligent species, its natural for the most intelligent of the intelligent species to be among the fittest in survival.
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We have SOME laws about misleading.

Virtually none regarding the application of persuasion science, the primary vector by which the bright deceive the substantially less so.
 
Papa bull said:
The real secret to getting richer is simple: consume less than you produce. You can get richer by consuming less or producing more. More in terms of quantity or more in terms of value. Economics isn't a zero sum game, so it is actually possible for everyone to do better. Some people get it in their heads that someone else getting richer means everyone else must get poorer but that's driven by ignorance combined with very poor reasoning and probably more than a little of the unflattering emotion known as jealousy.
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This is true, but some people will never believe it.
 
What if...? said:
We have SOME laws about misleading.

Virtually none regarding the application of persuasion science, the primary vector by which the bright deceive the substantially less so.
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How far do you expect the law to go to protect people from their own stupidity?
 
What if...? said:
But I'm going to bet the clever monkeys who came up with CDs and those they
were working for profited handsomely. Which is the point.
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Youv'e got to be at least intelligent enough to understand the Genesis of the Sub-Prime Collapse that led to the demonization of financial instruments that on their own are harmless useful tools in the Investment markets.

Youv'e got to be at least intelligent enough to know when your'e being manipulated for political purposes.
 
ReformCollege said:
How far do you expect the law to go to protect people from their own stupidity?
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You see, we go from agreement that there is a real advantage to being much more intelligent to someone else to accusing those less bright stupid.

And persuasion science doenst really care how smart you are.

It gets in through your emotions.

The smarter you are, the more likely you are to believe (mistakenly) that you are immune.
 
What if...? said:
You see, we go from agreement that there
is a real advantage to being much more intelligent to someone else to accusing those less bright stupid.

And persuasion science doenst really care how smart you are.

It gets in through your emotions.

The smarter you are, the more likely you are to believe (mistakenly) that you are immune.
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Being prone to demagogy, not being able to analyze on a purely objective level is clearly the short coming of a less intelligent individual.

Being quick to rage or acting impulsively is a characteristic many in our prisons share, and I'm willing to bet the mean IQ for all our incarcerated citizens barely approaches 90.
 
What if...? said:
You see, we go from agreement that there is a real advantage to being much more intelligent to someone else to accusing those less bright stupid.

And persuasion science doenst really care how smart you are.

It gets in through your emotions.

The smarter you are, the more likely you are to believe (mistakenly) that you are immune.
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At the same time, that information is available to anyone who seeks it, and the more adept you are in "science of persuasion" the less likely you are to be persuaded. Anyone can learn how the game is played, but if someone isn't to be bothered on even attempting, then that is something they themselves have to deal with.

I'm not denying that there is a real advantage to someone being smarter then another. I'm saying that's the way it should be.
 
Fenton said:
Youv'e got to be at least intelligent enough to understand the Genesis of the Sub-Prime Collapse that led to the demonization of financial instruments that on their own are harmless useful tools in the Investment markets.

Youv'e got to be at least intelligent enough to know when your'e being manipulated for political purposes.
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Sure.

Clever people got rich and taxpayers picked up the tab when the music stopped and nobody wanted to be left with nowhere to sit.
 
ReformCollege said:
At the same time, that information is available to anyone who seeks it, and the more adept you are in "science of persuasion" the less likely you are to be persuaded. Anyone can learn how the game is played, but if someone isn't to be bothered on even attempting, then that is something they themselves have to deal with.

I'm not denying that there is a real advantage to someone being smarter then another. I'm saying that's the way it should be.
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Specific knowledge provides some immunity to some techniques, yes.

Most people deny its going on at all, so they're defenseless.

Being smart and educated does not provide much immunity.

Persuasion is done through emotional channels, primarily.
 
Fenton said:
Being prone to demagogy, not being able to analyze on a purely objective level is clearly the short coming of a less intelligent individual.

Being quick to rage or acting impulsively is a characteristic many in our prisons share, and I'm willing to bet the mean IQ for all our incarcerated citizens barely approaches 90.
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I've seen you repeat many a manufactured meme.
 
What if...? said:
I've seen you repeat many a manufactured meme.
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If that's an insinuation that what Fenton said was a "manufactured meme", can you point out precisely what part of that you were referring to, because most of it sounded reasonably close to reality.
 
shrubnose said:
Maybe because a lot of the poor are working for the rich, eh?
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Oh we haven't seen anything yet. When they get their way it will be a Lord/Serf society. They've been working on it since 1981:

uneven-distribution-of-income-growth.jpg


3.jpg
 
What if...? said:
Specific knowledge provides some immunity to some techniques, yes.

Most people deny its going on at all, so they're defenseless.

Being smart and educated does not provide much immunity.

Persuasion is done through emotional channels, primarily.
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Most people deny it so they are defenseless...... So the problem is their denial.
 
Campbell said:
Oh we haven't seen anything yet. When they get their way it will be a Lord/Serf society. They've been working on it since 1981:

uneven-distribution-of-income-growth.jpg


3.jpg
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Are you still spewing this garbage? I've refuted you at least half a dozen times on this topic, yet you still post the same thing over and over and over.

• Median incomes of taxpayers in the sample increased by 24 percent after adjusting
for inflation. The real incomes of two-thirds of all taxpayers increased over this
period. Further, the median incomes of those initially in the lowest income groups
increased more in percentage terms than the median incomes of those in the higher
income groups. The median inflation-adjusted incomes of the taxpayers who were in
the very highest income groups in 1996 declined by 2005.
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http://www.treasury.gov/resource-center/tax-policy/Documents/incomemobilitystudy03-08revise.pdf
 
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