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Thread: The First Amendment, like many of our other rights, is unconstitutionally restricted

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    The First Amendment, like many of our other rights, is unconstitutionally restricted

    I know of this case of this boy whose mom had some kind of mental condition where she often had to be hospitalized. Anyway, this bully at school would often pick on the boy about his mom, saying that his mom was a psychopath and stuff like that. One day the boy had enough and when being picked on he said to the bully, "Knock it off, Im gonna kill you!" I don't know the whole story but from what I do know the boy got in trouble with the law for saying he was going to kill the bully. I don't think its a good idea to go around saying you're going to kill people but to get in trouble for that with the law, as this boy did, would be unconstitutional and would violate the First Amendment.

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    Re: The First Amendment, like many of our other rights, is unconstitutionally restricted

    Quote Originally Posted by DebateChallenge View Post
    I know of this case of this boy whose mom had some kind of mental condition where she often had to be hospitalized. Anyway, this bully at school would often pick on the boy about his mom, saying that his mom was a psychopath and stuff like that. One day the boy had enough and when being picked on he said to the bully, "Knock it off, Im gonna kill you!" I don't know the whole story but from what I do know the boy got in trouble with the law for saying he was going to kill the bully. I don't think its a good idea to go around saying you're going to kill people but to get in trouble for that with the law, as this boy did, would be unconstitutional and would violate the First Amendment.
    Threat of imminent lawless action is the only thing not protected by the 1st amendment. I don’t see that changing anytime soon.

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    Re: The First Amendment, like many of our other rights, is unconstitutionally restricted

    Why are rights and laws so hard to understand for some people?
    The first (nor any other right) is not a freedom ticket to break laws and or infringe on the rights of others.
    This is a very basic concept.
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    Re: The First Amendment, like many of our other rights, is unconstitutionally restricted

    Quote Originally Posted by AGENT J View Post
    Why are rights and laws so hard to understand for some people?
    The first (nor any other right) is not a freedom ticket to break laws and or infringe on the rights of others.
    This is a very basic concept.
    Well, I agree with you mostly accept the second sentence... Rights are a means to break a law if the law infringes on your rights...unless that law has a solid base of preventing you from infringing the rights of others.

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    Re: The First Amendment, like many of our other rights, is unconstitutionally restricted

    Quote Originally Posted by DebateChallenge View Post
    I know of this case of this boy whose mom had some kind of mental condition where she often had to be hospitalized. Anyway, this bully at school would often pick on the boy about his mom, saying that his mom was a psychopath and stuff like that. One day the boy had enough and when being picked on he said to the bully, "Knock it off, Im gonna kill you!" I don't know the whole story but from what I do know the boy got in trouble with the law for saying he was going to kill the bully. I don't think its a good idea to go around saying you're going to kill people but to get in trouble for that with the law, as this boy did, would be unconstitutional and would violate the First Amendment.
    Are you kidding me? Making a credible threat of serious injury or death to another person is not protected by the 1A. You did not define what action was involved in "picking on" the person. If that "picking on" action did not rise to the level of being likely to cause serious injury or death then using or threatening the use of deadly force would not be considered self defense.
    “The reasonable man adapts himself to the world: the unreasonable one persists to adapt the world to himself.
    Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.” ― George Bernard Shaw, Man and Superman

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    Re: The First Amendment, like many of our other rights, is unconstitutionally restricted

    Quote Originally Posted by celticwar17 View Post
    Well, I agree with you mostly accept the second sentence... Rights are a means to break a law if the law infringes on your rights...unless that law has a solid base of preventing you from infringing the rights of others.
    Thats not true either though. I understand what you are saying by "means" but its just not reality. Rights give you an avenue to pressure/clarifying and challenge the law to see if it infringes on your right. It doesn't just allow you to break the law, you'd have to prove your case. If you win the law is invalid and you simply wont be "breaking" it.

    A perfect example is gun rights. one of the reasons its hard to fight against bad laws in this area is nobody wants to risk being a felon. It sucks and im progun but thats the reality. If I go to a state that doesn't reciprocate my carry permit or has no open carry I cant simply say im allowed to break your loaws because otherwise you are violating my rights.

    Now I maybe 100% right but unless a court case (probably many of them and many years of a battle) eventually agrees with me, me saying so wont be an excuse to break the law and then if im found right the law is invalid and no longer being broken.
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    Re: The First Amendment, like many of our other rights, is unconstitutionally restricted

    Quote Originally Posted by AGENT J View Post
    Thats not true either though. I understand what you are saying by "means" but its just not reality. Rights give you an avenue to pressure/clarifying and challenge the law to see if it infringes on your right. It doesn't just allow you to break the law, you'd have to prove your case. If you win the law is invalid and you simply wont be "breaking" it.

    A perfect example is gun rights. one of the reasons its hard to fight against bad laws in this area is nobody wants to risk being a felon. It sucks and im progun but thats the reality. If I go to a state that doesn't reciprocate my carry permit or has no open carry I cant simply say im allowed to break your loaws because otherwise you are violating my rights.

    Now I maybe 100% right but unless a court case (probably many of them and many years of a battle) eventually agrees with me, me saying so wont be an excuse to break the law and then if im found right the law is invalid and no longer being broken.
    I understand that is how it works in practice. But I do still disagree with you xD

    It's a matter of what came first.... the law or the right? The right most certainly came first, you are ALWAYS obligated to practice your rights... and the law can certainly try to inflict Tyranny on you, doesn't make the law correct. Rights, according to the logical argument in the constitution are to be treated as god given, supreme law(because they are god given, and this is the case whether you believe in a god or not... the logic is is that they are inalienable by a supreme being conceptually), and are inalienable... If a law comes by and invalidates their inalienability or supreme-ness(lol can't think of a word)... then it is THAT laws fault not the individual citizen's for breaking it.

    And in my view, and I think I put forth an good argument, the enforcers of the law ought to be punished for the infringement(the state government fined and awarded to the individual).. more than just a, okay sorry my bad we thought the law was legit...and I believe there have been cases where that has happened
    Last edited by celticwar17; 01-25-18 at 01:24 PM.

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    Re: The First Amendment, like many of our other rights, is unconstitutionally restricted

    Quote Originally Posted by celticwar17 View Post
    I understand that is how it works in practice. But I do still disagree with you xD

    1.) It's a matter of what came first.... the law or the right? The right most certainly came first, you are ALWAYS obligated to practice your rights...
    2.) and the law can certainly try to inflict Tyranny on you, doesn't make the law correct.
    3.) Rights, according to the logical argument in the constitution are to be treated as god given, supreme law(because they are god given, and this is the case whether you believe in a god or not... the logic is is that they are inalienable by a supreme being conceptually), and are inalienable... If a law comes by and invalidates their inalienability or supreme-ness(lol can't think of a word)... then it is THAT laws fault not the individual citizen's for breaking it.
    1.) Nobody is obligated to practice rights in reality, in fact many people do not. I know others feel differently but thats the reality.
    2.) of course it can and of course that doesnt make it right.
    3.) ONLY if that individual is right and then is proven so then the law is removed. You cant start with domino number one and ignore the rest of the critical pieces especially since the other dominoes may never fall.

    person A thinks Law 1 is wrong so they break it

    its found out the court and people disagree, person A is guilty of breaking the law A and rightfully so no matter his thoughts and feelings. Him claiming he felt the law violates is rights is meaningless and not a defense therefor it does not give him the freedom to do so like i stated. If that freedom existed then this person wouldnt be guilty but it doesn't.

    person B thinks Law 2 is wrong so they break it

    its found out the court and people agree, [B]person B is innocent because said law b is not a valid/constitutional. Its now found to be invalid hence it can not be broken.

    You can still disagree of course but my statement stands as written.
    Quote Originally Posted by Angel View Post
    There is no such thing as a "Zef."
    Quote Originally Posted by ocean515 View Post
    Hispanics are one issue voters. The primary issues all relate to legality & immigration, & how they can make their illegal relatives safe in the US.
    Quote Originally Posted by calamity View Post
    I'm not at risk for AIDS. Gays are.

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    Re: The First Amendment, like many of our other rights, is unconstitutionally restricted

    Quote Originally Posted by AGENT J View Post
    Why are rights and laws so hard to understand for some people?
    The first (nor any other right) is not a freedom ticket to break laws and or infringe on the rights of others.
    This is a very basic concept.
    You're putting the cart before the horse. The purpose of the Bill Of Rights, including the 1st A is to prohibit the government from making any laws that would infringe on the rights granted by the Bill Of Rights. So therefore the government is not supposed to disallow stuff that's allowed by the BOR. After all, imagine if the government passed a law saying you can't vote, or that you can't go to any church, or that you have to go to a specific church, or that soldiers can be quartered in your house at any time at their whim?

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    Re: The First Amendment, like many of our other rights, is unconstitutionally restricted

    Quote Originally Posted by ttwtt78640 View Post
    Are you kidding me? Making a credible threat of serious injury or death to another person is not protected by the 1A. You did not define what action was involved in "picking on" the person. If that "picking on" action did not rise to the level of being likely to cause serious injury or death then using or threatening the use of deadly force would not be considered self defense.
    Threatening to do something and doing it are two different things.

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