View Poll Results: Should Nazis and extreme hate groups be banned?

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  • Yes. They have no place in a legitimate democracy

    3 8.82%
  • No! Free speech.

    31 91.18%
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Thread: Hate Speech and the slippery slope fallacy

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    Hate Speech and the slippery slope fallacy

    Here's the problem with hate speech: If you allow influences like Fascists or real nazis to exist in a "democracy", you give them full room and even platforms to grow, propagandize, and recruit vulnerable, angry young men.
    This is obviously a bad thing. But the idea that such virulent ideas should be able to be spread unchecked is ludicrous and idealistic.
    I guess the counter argument would be "If you ban nazis, then they come for the conservatives!"
    A Fair point, but the problem is that this is flawed reasoning. Hate speech is not differing points of views that you slap a label upon; It is defined hatred or contempt of people based on immutable aspects. In the process, it feeds an underlying narrative that promotes the discrimination of minority groups.
    If you want a good idea of what hate speech actually is, crack open Mein Kampf and give it a read, and you'll see why these ideas under no circumstances should be allowed to spread, especially in an unstable, fake democracy like we have today.
    Last edited by Starvos; 01-21-18 at 09:32 PM.
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    Re: Hate Speech and the slippery slope fallacy

    Quote Originally Posted by Starvos View Post
    Here's the problem with hate speech: If you allow influences like Fascists or real nazis to exist in a "democracy", you give them full room and even platforms to grow, propagandize, and recruit vulnerable, angry young men.
    This is obviously a bad thing. But the idea that such virulent ideas should be able to be spread unchecked is ludicrous and idealistic.
    I guess the counter argument would be "If you ban nazis, then they come for the conservatives!" Not going to happen.
    If you want a good idea of what hate speech actually is, crack open Mein Kampf and give it a read, and you'll see why these ideas under no circumstances should be allowed to spread, even in a fake democracy like we have today.
    As reprehensible as racist, nazi garbage is, I still believe in freedom of speech/expression. I don't have to agree with the message, but I do believe in one's right to say it. And I'm not a fan of the government censoring ideas, even reprehensible ones. As long as the speech isn't inciting violence. I think we should always be in opposition to those kind of beliefs, though.
    Last edited by TheGoverness; 01-21-18 at 09:31 PM.
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    Re: Hate Speech and the slippery slope fallacy

    Sorry OP, but this is exactly the type of free speech that most needs protection - that which is highly unpopular.

    If their speech crosses the line to criminality, go after them. Otherwise, I stand with the Founders.
    "When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross." - Sinclair Lewis

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    Re: Hate Speech and the slippery slope fallacy

    Quote Originally Posted by Starvos View Post
    Here's the problem with hate speech: If you allow influences like Fascists or real nazis to exist in a "democracy", you give them full room and even platforms to grow, propagandize, and recruit vulnerable, angry young men.
    This is obviously a bad thing. But the idea that such virulent ideas should be able to be spread unchecked is ludicrous and idealistic.
    I guess the counter argument would be "If you ban nazis, then they come for the conservatives!"
    A Fair point, but the problem is that this is flawed reasoning. Hate speech is not differing points of views that you slap a label upon; It is defined hatred or contempt of people based on immutable aspects. In the process, it feeds an underlying narrative that promotes the discrimination of minority groups.
    If you want a good idea of what hate speech actually is, crack open Mein Kampf and give it a read, and you'll see why these ideas under no circumstances should be allowed to spread, especially in an unstable, fake democracy like we have today.
    No. As much as I despise Nazis and all other hate groups, if we try to ban them, all we do is make them seem more attractive to young, impressionable people (mostly guys). Besides, if we ban them, where does it stop? I don't like to deal with slippery-slope logical fallacy, but this is one path I don't think we should tread.
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    Re: Hate Speech and the slippery slope fallacy

    I Disapprove of What You Say, But I Will Defend to the Death Your Right to Say It

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    Re: Hate Speech and the slippery slope fallacy

    Quote Originally Posted by Starvos View Post
    Here's the problem with hate speech: If you allow influences like Fascists or real nazis to exist in a "democracy", you give them full room and even platforms to grow, propagandize, and recruit vulnerable, angry young men.
    This is obviously a bad thing. But the idea that such virulent ideas should be able to be spread unchecked is ludicrous and idealistic.
    I guess the counter argument would be "If you ban nazis, then they come for the conservatives!"
    A Fair point, but the problem is that this is flawed reasoning. Hate speech is not differing points of views that you slap a label upon; It is defined hatred or contempt of people based on immutable aspects. In the process, it feeds an underlying narrative that promotes the discrimination of minority groups.
    If you want a good idea of what hate speech actually is, crack open Mein Kampf and give it a read, and you'll see why these ideas under no circumstances should be allowed to spread, especially in an unstable, fake democracy like we have today.
    Things are not apt to get as weird as they were in the 1930's simply because of mass communications not being government controlled. The danger, IMHO, is in going the other way - back to government control of the media to try to stamp out "hateful" ideas.
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    Re: Hate Speech and the slippery slope fallacy

    Quote Originally Posted by Starvos View Post
    Here's the problem with hate speech: If you allow influences like Fascists or real nazis to exist in a "democracy", you give them full room and even platforms to grow, propagandize, and recruit vulnerable, angry young men.
    This is obviously a bad thing. But the idea that such virulent ideas should be able to be spread unchecked is ludicrous and idealistic.
    I guess the counter argument would be "If you ban nazis, then they come for the conservatives!"
    A Fair point, but the problem is that this is flawed reasoning. Hate speech is not differing points of views that you slap a label upon; It is defined hatred or contempt of people based on immutable aspects. In the process, it feeds an underlying narrative that promotes the discrimination of minority groups.
    If you want a good idea of what hate speech actually is, crack open Mein Kampf and give it a read, and you'll see why these ideas under no circumstances should be allowed to spread, especially in an unstable, fake democracy like we have today.
    Would you also ban other groups that advocate hate? What about Wahhabist Muslims or ultra-Orthodox Jews that believe rights should be stripped from women? What about black radicalists that believe in creating their own nation free from white people? The KKK? Feminists that advocate for banning men from society?
    Last edited by spud_meister; 01-21-18 at 09:48 PM.
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    Re: Hate Speech and the slippery slope fallacy

    Quote Originally Posted by Starvos View Post
    Here's the problem with hate speech: If you allow influences like Fascists or real nazis to exist in a "democracy", you give them full room and even platforms to grow, propagandize, and recruit vulnerable, angry young men.
    This is obviously a bad thing. But the idea that such virulent ideas should be able to be spread unchecked is ludicrous and idealistic.
    I guess the counter argument would be "If you ban nazis, then they come for the conservatives!" Not going to happen.
    If you want a good idea of what hate speech actually is, crack open Mein Kampf and give it a read, and you'll see why these ideas under no circumstances should be allowed to spread, even in a fake democracy like we have today.
    Hateful ideas shouldn't be allowed to spread? I'm for freedom of speech, even the ideas that are reprehensible. But who decides "hateful thought". If we want to prevent the murder and genocide of people we should start with Socialism.

    PREVENTING GENOCIDE.jpg

    The Great Leap Forward
    A lower-end estimate is 18 million, while extensive research by Yu Xiguang suggests the death toll from the movement is closer to 55.6 million

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    was a man-made famine in Soviet Ukraine in 1932 and 1933 that killed an officially estimated 7 million to 10 million people

    The Khmer Rouge
    regime led by Pol Pot between 1975 and 1979 in which an estimated 1.5 to 3 million Cambodians died or were killed by the regime

    The Genocide Of Poland
    It resulted in the sentencing of 139,835 people, and summary executions of 111,091 ethnic Poles

    There are no ideas more hateful than socialism.
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    Re: Hate Speech and the slippery slope fallacy

    Quote Originally Posted by Starvos View Post
    Here's the problem with hate speech: If you allow influences like Fascists or real nazis to exist in a "democracy", you give them full room and even platforms to grow, propagandize, and recruit vulnerable, angry young men.
    This is obviously a bad thing. But the idea that such virulent ideas should be able to be spread unchecked is ludicrous and idealistic.
    I guess the counter argument would be "If you ban nazis, then they come for the conservatives!"
    A Fair point, but the problem is that this is flawed reasoning. Hate speech is not differing points of views that you slap a label upon; It is defined hatred or contempt of people based on immutable aspects. In the process, it feeds an underlying narrative that promotes the discrimination of minority groups.
    If you want a good idea of what hate speech actually is, crack open Mein Kampf and give it a read, and you'll see why these ideas under no circumstances should be allowed to spread, especially in an unstable, fake democracy like we have today.
    People have compared the last 4 presidents and their respective parties to Hitler and the Nazis, often, so don’t act like that idea is so far fetched

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    Re: Hate Speech and the slippery slope fallacy

    "But communism caused mass murder"
    Guilt by association fallacy.
    Usually people are against mass murder and to make this argument worse the core concept of communism isn't mass murder.
    Unlike the Nazis, who advocate it in their literature and in their propaganda.
    "One of the chief symptoms of every revolution is the sharp and sudden increase in people who take an active, independent and forceful interest in politics" -Vladimir Lenin

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