• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

AntiFa and Freedom of Speech from the Horse's Mouth

OlNate

OlNate

Shameless Canuck
DP Veteran
Joined
Mar 9, 2017
Messages
22,064
Reaction score
13,461
Location
Ontario, Canada
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Progressive
With all the discussion around AntiFa and their opposition to "Freedom of Speech", I figured it might be fun to post what AntiFa is saying. This is from their website, which I checked out thanks to one of our Right leaning friends here at DP.

https://itsgoingdown.org/liberal-myth-free-speech/

Now, before this turns into a giant "**** YOU, NATE!!!", I will lead out by saying that I am not specifically condoning, endorsing, or defending anything herein, this was merely to provide context for those interested in knowing where AntiFa stands, so as to avoid talking out one's ass about things they don't really totally know about.

That said, the author makes some pretty damn good points, and it would be interesting to see it debated, if we can avoid this turning into 50 pages of "AntiFa sucks, **** you!!" "No, Nazis suck, **** you!!" "No, the Left sucks, **** you!!" "No, the Right sucks, **** you!!".
 
OlNate said:
With all the discussion around AntiFa and their opposition to "Freedom of Speech", I figured it might be fun to post what AntiFa is saying. This is from their website, which I checked out thanks to one of our Right leaning friends here at DP.

https://itsgoingdown.org/liberal-myth-free-speech/

Now, before this turns into a giant "**** YOU, NATE!!!", I will lead out by saying that I am not specifically condoning, endorsing, or defending anything herein, this was merely to provide context for those interested in knowing where AntiFa stands, so as to avoid talking out one's ass about things they don't really totally know about.

That said, the author makes some pretty damn good points, and it would be interesting to see it debated, if we can avoid this turning into 50 pages of "AntiFa sucks, **** you!!" "No, Nazis suck, **** you!!" "No, the Left sucks, **** you!!" "No, the Right sucks, **** you!!".
Click to expand...

Pity. The link doesn't seem to load.
 
Can't say I'm really interested in what a group that engages in violence and political intimidation has to say about rights.
 
joG said:
Pity. The link doesn't seem to load.
Click to expand...

That's bizarre... I literally checked out the link a few minutes ago. Now when I google "It's going down", the link to the site now circles back to a google search for "It's going down"... Wow...wonder what happened there. Can you get to itsgoingdown.org?
 
Nap said:
Just Google "it's going down", you should be able to find the link.
Click to expand...

Are you able to get there from Google? The link comes up in the search results, but clicking on it seems to circle back to the search results...
 
Ikari said:
Can't say I'm really interested in what a group that engages in violence and political intimidation has to say about rights.
Click to expand...

You should...it's an interesting read. Plus, I didn't really figure you for the "ignorance is bliss" type.

But whatevs, just putting it up for those interested. Thanks for sharing your disinterest... :)
 
OlNate said:
With all the discussion around AntiFa and their opposition to "Freedom of Speech", I figured it might be fun to post what AntiFa is saying. This is from their website, which I checked out thanks to one of our Right leaning friends here at DP.

https://itsgoingdown.org/liberal-myth-free-speech/

Now, before this turns into a giant "**** YOU, NATE!!!", I will lead out by saying that I am not specifically condoning, endorsing, or defending anything herein, this was merely to provide context for those interested in knowing where AntiFa stands, so as to avoid talking out one's ass about things they don't really totally know about.

That said, the author makes some pretty damn good points, and it would be interesting to see it debated, if we can avoid this turning into 50 pages of "AntiFa sucks, **** you!!" "No, Nazis suck, **** you!!" "No, the Left sucks, **** you!!" "No, the Right sucks, **** you!!".
Click to expand...

I agree that he made some good points but he also took those points to reach some ridiculous conclusions.

What is odd to me is that he is against government while simultaneously against capitalism. It appears we simply have completely different world views but draw similar conclusions as to the root cause to many of the issues we face which is government overreach. A capitalist society is in my opinion the only sustainable economic system that would work with little to no government interference. While I think Anarcho-capitalist are a bit too extreme, I think the ideas behind the view are more realistic than the utopian pipedream that is anarcho-communism.
 
OlNate said:
Are you able to get there from Google? The link comes up in the search results, but clicking on it seems to circle back to the search results...
Click to expand...

I was able to find it, it was one of the articles at the top when I searched.
 
OlNate said:
You should...it's an interesting read. Plus, I didn't really figure you for the "ignorance is bliss" type.

But whatevs, just putting it up for those interested. Thanks for sharing your disinterest... :)
Click to expand...

I don't believe that ignorance is bliss, but I also don't generally give idiots the time of day.
 
Nap said:
I agree that he made some good points but he also took those points to reach some ridiculous conclusions.

What is odd to me is that he is against government while simultaneously against capitalism. It appears we simply have completely different world views but draw similar conclusions as to the root cause to many of the issues we face which is government overreach. A capitalist society is in my opinion the only sustainable economic system that would work with little to no government interference. While I think Anarcho-capitalist are a bit too extreme, I think the ideas behind the view are more realistic than the utopian pipedream that is anarcho-communism.
Click to expand...

I agree, Anarchy in general is nonsense, and utterly unsustainable if we want to continue to enjoy the lifestyle to which we have become accustomed - and that's all the way to the bottom, Anarchy would represent a complete flush.

Some of the criticisms are spot on, though...and are worth consideration amongst the more moderate / centric folks who can actually stop ranting and raving long enough to come up with a feasible solution.
 
Nap said:
I was able to find it, it was one of the articles at the top when I searched.
Click to expand...

Thanks, I think the site blinked out for a bit, I couldn't access it via my computer or phone, and then it came back. Get out the tinfoil hats, conspiracy theories to follow... ;) haha
 
Ikari said:
I don't believe that ignorance is bliss, but I also don't generally give idiots the time of day.
Click to expand...

And yet you've spent time talking to me...huh! ;)
 
OlNate said:
With all the discussion around AntiFa and their opposition to "Freedom of Speech", I figured it might be fun to post what AntiFa is saying. This is from their website, which I checked out thanks to one of our Right leaning friends here at DP.

https://itsgoingdown.org/liberal-myth-free-speech/

Now, before this turns into a giant "**** YOU, NATE!!!", I will lead out by saying that I am not specifically condoning, endorsing, or defending anything herein, this was merely to provide context for those interested in knowing where AntiFa stands, so as to avoid talking out one's ass about things they don't really totally know about.

That said, the author makes some pretty damn good points, and it would be interesting to see it debated, if we can avoid this turning into 50 pages of "AntiFa sucks, **** you!!" "No, Nazis suck, **** you!!" "No, the Left sucks, **** you!!" "No, the Right sucks, **** you!!".
Click to expand...

From your link to itsgoingdown.com . . .

My own personal feelings about a society in which free, open, unobstructed discourse exists are irrelevant. I do not believe in free speech in that I find it ridiculous to think we currently live or for that matter ever have lived in such a society. Free speech as it pertains to the US should be viewed in the same light as any other national myth which abstractly conveys a hypothetical value system. Nice enough on paper, utterly non-existent in practice
Click to expand...

This guy obviously doesn't even understand the concept. And his own group, in practice, doesn't believe in it. Not sure of your point.
 
OlNate said:
I agree, Anarchy in general is nonsense, and utterly unsustainable if we want to continue to enjoy the lifestyle to which we have become accustomed - and that's all the way to the bottom, Anarchy would represent a complete flush.

Some of the criticisms are spot on, though...and are worth consideration amongst the more moderate / centric folks who can actually stop ranting and raving long enough to come up with a feasible solution.
Click to expand...

Anarchy is simply freedom taken to the extreme. It would be nice if it were possible but human nature would not allow it. Which is why I see Anarcho-capitalism as at least feasible due to it being based on natural human instinct (profit motive, greed). In order for communism to be sustainable you need a power structure in order to force people to comply.
 
OlNate said:
With all the discussion around AntiFa and their opposition to "Freedom of Speech", I figured it might be fun to post what AntiFa is saying. This is from their website, which I checked out thanks to one of our Right leaning friends here at DP.

https://itsgoingdown.org/liberal-myth-free-speech/

Now, before this turns into a giant "**** YOU, NATE!!!", I will lead out by saying that I am not specifically condoning, endorsing, or defending anything herein, this was merely to provide context for those interested in knowing where AntiFa stands, so as to avoid talking out one's ass about things they don't really totally know about.

That said, the author makes some pretty damn good points, and it would be interesting to see it debated, if we can avoid this turning into 50 pages of "AntiFa sucks, **** you!!" "No, Nazis suck, **** you!!" "No, the Left sucks, **** you!!" "No, the Right sucks, **** you!!".
Click to expand...

Nothing but utter, self-serving nonsense.

Quick to claim the certainty of violence from the groups he doesn't like, but makes no mention of the violence HIS group engages in on a regular basis.

Justifies his claims that groups he doesn't like do not deserve freedom of speech because "...free speech has never existed in America."

/article resoundingly dismissed


btw, the link loaded just fine for me.
 
MaggieD said:
Not sure of your point.
Click to expand...

No point, said so in the OP. :) Just posting it as a reference... Feel free to agree or dismiss as you see fit, I'm definitely not defending it as a whole, merely pointing out that some of the arguments are good ones, even if better resolved by far less fanatical people.
 
OlNate said:
No point, said so in the OP. :) Just posting it as a reference... Feel free to agree or dismiss as you see fit, I'm definitely not defending it as a whole, merely pointing out that some of the arguments are good ones, even if better resolved by far less fanatical people.
Click to expand...

There are better ways to achieve a goal than what ATIFA is using.
 
It is well worth a read. I just don't know how the author comes to the conclusion that the best way to move their positions forward is to engage in violence. I can accept that free speech is unequal in its power in the United States. After all, donations to candidates is considered free speech which certainly implies that people with more money have more free speech during elections. I guess it is easy to understand the violence when I remind myself that groups like this are interested in destroying the state entirely. I get so used to them being lumped in with liberals that I find it easy to forget sometimes.
 
MrPeanut said:
It is well worth a read. I just don't know how the author comes to the conclusion that the best way to move their positions forward is to engage in violence. I can accept that free speech is unequal in its power in the United States. After all, donations to candidates is considered free speech which certainly implies that people with more money have more free speech during elections. I guess it is easy to understand the violence when I remind myself that groups like this are interested in destroying the state entirely. I get so used to them being lumped in with liberals that I find it easy to forget sometimes.
Click to expand...

lol...well, that article was ripping on Liberals, so...hehe... Maybe we're not to blame?

I think AntiFa is what you get when you overpromise and under-deliver for too long. These are not Nazi mouth breathers, they have a lot of intellectuals in their membership that are simply fed the **** up about how their country is being run, primarily because of the gap between what is promised and what is delivered. Lashing out is an immature behavior, and hopefully, provided they don't get themselves killed or locked up in the process, they come out of this with some *actual* solutions to the problems they are correctly identifying....when they grow up.

In the meantime, it's a good provocation for the rest of you - the problems are real, or at least seem real enough to bear discussion, and if so, and if violence *isn't* the answer, then what do you do about it? Doing nothing gets you AntiFa, as history has clearly shown...sometimes pragmatism is the more dangerous course.
 
OlNate said:
if we can avoid this turning into 50 pages of "AntiFa sucks, **** you!!" "No, Nazis suck, **** you!!" "No, the Left sucks, **** you!!" "No, the Right sucks, **** you!!".
Click to expand...

You already know that's exactly what's going to happen. We've seen this song and dance play out across a dozen+ threads with the same results each time.
 
Jesse Booth said:
You already know that's exactly what's going to happen. We've seen this song and dance play out across a dozen+ threads with the same results each time.
Click to expand...

Kinda hoping that since I'm not trying to say they are right that I won't rustle too many jimmies....hehehe... I know it probably will, but maybe there will be some good conversation mixed in. You can't get away with anything on DP without starting a **** storm these days, it would appear. Posting a boiled egg recipe could get controversial...hehe :)
 
OlNate said:
Kinda hoping that since I'm not trying to say they are right that I won't rustle too many jimmies....hehehe... I know it probably will, but maybe there will be some good conversation mixed in. You can't get away with anything on DP without starting a **** storm these days, it would appear. Posting a boiled egg recipe could get controversial...hehe :)
Click to expand...

You think that's a joke, but it was an accurate reflection of the Food forum until Militant Vegan finally got himself banned.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom