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AntiFa and Freedom of Speech from the Horse's Mouth

OpportunityCost said:
Is that a cop out, a dodge, or an evasion? Because its not a definition with an ounce of effort put into it.

If you want to drop out of the conversation because you have nothing to contribute, that's fine too, but make some effort.
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I've said a couple of times now that there is really no way to describe a violent mob that has no organized goal. They're a violent mob; that's it.
 
jet57 said:
I've said a couple of times now that there is really no way to describe a violent mob that has no organized goal. They're a violent mob; that's it.
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Sure there is, they share some common traits and have some of the same goals. YOU don't want to examine the inconvenience of those goals and traits, its makes progressives look bad.
 
OpportunityCost said:
Sure there is, they share some common traits and have some of the same goals. YOU don't want to examine the inconvenience of those goals and traits, its makes progressives look bad.
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No, I don;t want to watch dance around the Maypole anymore. Antifa is not fascist; you definition of fascism is for the birds and you have absolutely no idea what you're talking about.

:2wave:
 
jet57 said:
No, I don;t want to watch dance around the Maypole anymore. Antifa is not fascist; you definition of fascism is for the birds and you have absolutely no idea what you're talking about.

:2wave:
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Your concession is noted. You have refused to define them, examine their goals, or what they try accomplish, while refusing my definition with little to no support. The thread is better off without your input, as it is GIGO.
 
jet57 said:
Well, prove it.
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ANTIFA got it's rise from the europeanification of the MLS. You can look to "firms" such as the empire state supporters.

https://sports.vice.com/en_us/article/bmqgxv/the-socialist-soccer-fans-who-saved-mls-from-neo-nazis


Those people were in previous incarnations, SHARP, RASH, and ARA which were mostly harmless as they kept to thier own scenes. When trump was elected, this crap expanded as it has been in europe. Note there never was a real fascist contingent of soccer fans in harrison, NJ.


I mean really, right there, I've shown I know more than you.
 
OlNate said:
With all the discussion around AntiFa and their opposition to "Freedom of Speech", I figured it might be fun to post what AntiFa is saying. This is from their website, which I checked out thanks to one of our Right leaning friends here at DP.

https://itsgoingdown.org/liberal-myth-free-speech/

Now, before this turns into a giant "**** YOU, NATE!!!", I will lead out by saying that I am not specifically condoning, endorsing, or defending anything herein, this was merely to provide context for those interested in knowing where AntiFa stands, so as to avoid talking out one's ass about things they don't really totally know about.

That said, the author makes some pretty damn good points, and it would be interesting to see it debated, if we can avoid this turning into 50 pages of "AntiFa sucks, **** you!!" "No, Nazis suck, **** you!!" "No, the Left sucks, **** you!!" "No, the Right sucks, **** you!!".
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Wow, good thread! Great points! This has created a good oportunity to resolve the basic question about this perspective of antifa. From your link.

https://itsgoingdown.org/liberal-myth-free-speech/


"Fascism, with all of the violence it necessitates, has emerged from the darkness of intolerable evil into the realm of legitimate discourse. In opposing swift and decisive actions against a growing fascist wing in America, liberals and centrists have granted Nazis and other fascist groups legitimacy as a political movement.

Liberal arguments for fascist sympathy blend together seamlessly with those of the far right. The suggestion that fascists should not be allowed a platform is always met with the same indignant rebuttal.

“But don’t you believe in free speech?”"
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This is only true if free speech does not have an ultimate constitutional purpose within a society that has a constitution like ours.

If the preservation of the constitution depended on free speech having the ultimate purpose of preserving the constitution for its highest principles, would that be a constitutional use of the 9th Amendment?

"Of all of the values pounded into our heads by liberal hegemony, the notion of ‘free speech’ simultaneously inspires unprecedented levels of impassioned defense and cognitive dissonance on the part of its supporters."
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Only if free speech does not have an ultimate constitutional purpose within a society that has a constitution like ours. OR, people do not understand the constitution.

"My disconnect from those who believe in free speech largely stems from the word “believe.” Most of those ravenously asserting a personal belief in free speech feel as though they adhere to free speech as a value."
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The PURPOSES of free speech are dynamic. The biological or natural law PURPOSE is to assure information vital to survival is shared and understood. The legal PURPOSE in America is to enable the unity to alter or abolish government destructive to unalienable rights, which supports the constitution because that IS constitutional intent.

See my threads here for strategy to use the 9th Amendment to see the PURPOSE of free speech listed in the constitution by revision of the 1st amendment.

https://www.debatepolitics.com/us-c...ee-speech-re-established-through-9th-amd.html

https://www.debatepolitics.com/us-constitution/299932-peoples-use-their-right-9th-amd.html
 
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