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AntiFa and Freedom of Speech from the Horse's Mouth

Gee. Sorry I don't do things like you do. I'm convinced you'll get over it.

Oh, I will. But there's a hug here if you need it, big fella...lol
 
With all the discussion around AntiFa and their opposition to "Freedom of Speech", I figured it might be fun to post what AntiFa is saying. This is from their website, which I checked out thanks to one of our Right leaning friends here at DP.

https://itsgoingdown.org/liberal-myth-free-speech/

Now, before this turns into a giant "**** YOU, NATE!!!", I will lead out by saying that I am not specifically condoning, endorsing, or defending anything herein, this was merely to provide context for those interested in knowing where AntiFa stands, so as to avoid talking out one's ass about things they don't really totally know about.

That said, the author makes some pretty damn good points, and it would be interesting to see it debated, if we can avoid this turning into 50 pages of "AntiFa sucks, **** you!!" "No, Nazis suck, **** you!!" "No, the Left sucks, **** you!!" "No, the Right sucks, **** you!!".

I actually tried to read it. I don't like fascism and will fight it myself, but those guys aren't anything I can get behind.

Who we are:

It’s Going Down is a digital community center from anarchist, anti-fascist, autonomous anti-capitalist and anti-colonial movements. Our mission is to provide a resilient platform to publicize and promote revolutionary theory and action.



What we do:

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We are anarchists:

We act in the spirit of autonomy, mutual-aid and solidarity.

Anarchists don't create anything, they destroy things, kinda like angry kids. So antifa is just a bunch of anarchists?

Screw 'em.
 
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I actually tried to read it. I don't like fascism and will fight it myself, but those guys aren't anything I can get behind.



Anarchists don't create, they destroy.

Screw 'em.

Yup...not promoting, just posting as a reference. They make some good points, but come with no real solutions or blue prints for sustainable change. And yet, to deal with them we must understand them, and address the root causes that spur movements like this. Nothing happens in a vacuum, and it's too easy to say "Oh, those jerks"... I don't particularly like any activists, if I'm honest...but so long as they have merit in their causes, we'll have to deal with their methodologies, until we are willing to do something to address the complaints. It's not as easy to dismiss AntiFa for *what they believe* as it is with Nazis...which is why AntiFa has way more support than the Nazis do.
 
Yup...not promoting, just posting as a reference. They make some good points, but come with no real solutions or blue prints for sustainable change. And yet, to deal with them we must understand them, and address the root causes that spur movements like this. Nothing happens in a vacuum, and it's too easy to say "Oh, those jerks"... I don't particularly like any activists, if I'm honest...but so long as they have merit in their causes, we'll have to deal with their methodologies, until we are willing to do something to address the complaints. It's not as easy to dismiss AntiFa for *what they believe* as it is with Nazis...which is why AntiFa has way more support than the Nazis do.

Yeah, I admit that I agree with a few points in there. Their tactics completely wipe out any meaning those points might have in another context. Kinda sounds like a crazy Occupy WS jacked up on meth and a bad 'roid rage.
 
I don't believe that ignorance is bliss, but I also don't generally give idiots the time of day.

In order to truly understand something, you have to study it. If you don't, then your opinions are just empty.

It IS interesting to rad the "official opinion" as much as that goes about antifa.
 
I agree, Anarchy in general is nonsense, and utterly unsustainable if we want to continue to enjoy the lifestyle to which we have become accustomed - and that's all the way to the bottom, Anarchy would represent a complete flush.

Some of the criticisms are spot on, though...and are worth consideration amongst the more moderate / centric folks who can actually stop ranting and raving long enough to come up with a feasible solution.


There never really has been any anarchy in human history; people naturally gravitate into social groups and form contracts. The closest I think that we ever came to some sort of anarchy would have been in tribal and clan systems wherein the chief was the not just the progenitor but governing body. The clan system however has always been very democratic.

Anarchy the way these guys would like it just cannot exist in a social species like ours.
 
Antifa is a violent anarchist group. These are the same people that start fires and break windows in Europe whenever there is summit meeting of some sort. They want an end to government and, in the case of the U.S., they want an end to this country. They use violence and intimidation to further their agenda. I hate to tell you but what they write in a web site is meaningless. They are dangerous and criminal, not for what they believe or say but for what they do. They appear to be far more violent than the Nazis - another dangerous and criminal group. There is no point in reading whitewash on a web site. I'm surprised you suggested anyone read it unless you are trying to further their agenda.

You need to learn what facts are, and incorporate them into your life. Nazis are murderers and terrorists. Antifa save lives.

antifa which is worse.jpg
 
In order to truly understand something, you have to study it. If you don't, then your opinions are just empty.

It IS interesting to rad the "official opinion" as much as that goes about antifa.

Listen, I know they have all sorts of justifications for their violence. But the fact is that they use violence as a tool for intimidation and to silence those of opposing political view. What's there to really consider? They can likely stretch the rainbow into whatever they want to try to give justification for such fascist acts against the free exercise of rights; but in the end their actions are just that. Fascist acts against the free exercise of rights. And I for one do not believe one has the right to infringe upon the exercise of rights by others less their rights themselves are infringed upon.

If they can conduct themselves as intelligent, rational adults then we can of course have political discourse and hear each other out. But so long as they are going to advertise against the rights of the individual and use violence as a way to silence dissent; there's nothing for me to consider.
 
With all the discussion around AntiFa and their opposition to "Freedom of Speech", I figured it might be fun to post what AntiFa is saying. This is from their website, which I checked out thanks to one of our Right leaning friends here at DP.

https://itsgoingdown.org/liberal-myth-free-speech/

Now, before this turns into a giant "**** YOU, NATE!!!", I will lead out by saying that I am not specifically condoning, endorsing, or defending anything herein, this was merely to provide context for those interested in knowing where AntiFa stands, so as to avoid talking out one's ass about things they don't really totally know about.

That said, the author makes some pretty damn good points, and it would be interesting to see it debated, if we can avoid this turning into 50 pages of "AntiFa sucks, **** you!!" "No, Nazis suck, **** you!!" "No, the Left sucks, **** you!!" "No, the Right sucks, **** you!!".


Interesting article; more on that later, but for starters I have this question, perhaps another way of seeing this: wouldn't it have been interesting if their was an antifa movement - as such- (same tactics) - in late 1920's Germany and Italy and Spain in 1939?
 
Listen, I know they have all sorts of justifications for their violence. But the fact is that they use violence as a tool for intimidation and to silence those of opposing political view. What's there to really consider? They can likely stretch the rainbow into whatever they want to try to give justification for such fascist acts against the free exercise of rights; but in the end their actions are just that. Fascist acts against the free exercise of rights. And I for one do not believe one has the right to infringe upon the exercise of rights by others less their rights themselves are infringed upon.

If they can conduct themselves as intelligent, rational adults then we can of course have political discourse and hear each other out. But so long as they are going to advertise against the rights of the individual and use violence as a way to silence dissent; there's nothing for me to consider.


Fascism used extermination as a technique, so what's your point? The question is "why" does antifa resort to violence?
 
You need to learn what facts are, and incorporate them into your life. Nazis are murderers and terrorists. Antifa save lives.

View attachment 67222258

Trying to play the numbers game?

The Department of Homeland Security (DHS) has formally classified the activities of anti-fascist groups (antifa) as “domestic terrorist violence” since early 2016, according to confidential law enforcement documents.
 
I don't believe that ignorance is bliss, but I also don't generally give idiots the time of day.

I definitely don't think the writer is an idiot. He actually comes across as quite intelligent. His basic premise seems to be that Free Speech exists, as long as it doesn't upset the apple cart. Once it does, the Government shuts it down. He cites a few examples, but I'm not convinced. He cited MLK, but I don't think that's applicable, as I believe the government tolerated MLK free speech for a very long and intense time.
 
Interesting article; more on that later, but for starters I have this question, perhaps another way of seeing this: wouldn't it have been interesting if their was an antifa movement - as such- (same tactics) - in late 1920's Germany and Italy and Spain in 1939?

I mentioned this earlier. The roots of Antifa were founded after WWII. We'll never know, but one thing is certain. They would not have made life easier for the Nazis.
 
I mentioned this earlier. The roots of Antifa were founded after WWII. We'll never know, but one thing is certain. They would not have made life easier for the Nazis.

At the time of the fledgling nazis however, I think that The Night of Broken Glass may not have happened.
 
Trying to play the numbers game?

The Department of Homeland Security (DHS) has formally classified the activities of anti-fascist groups (antifa) as “domestic terrorist violence” since early 2016, according to confidential law enforcement documents.

Show us. Not one antifa perpetrator has been charged with domestic terrorism.
 
At the time of the fledgling nazis however, I think that The Night of Broken Glass may not have happened.

On that night, police were instructed "not to interfere", while Jews were rounded up persecuted, and killed. This is mentioned on the Antifa website, pertaining to the founding of Antifa. It mentions that sometimes authorities side with the Fascists. This happened in the Southern states as well, in the 1950s, against Blacks. I wonder if it could happen again in the US?
 
You need to learn what facts are, and incorporate them into your life. Nazis are murderers and terrorists. Antifa save lives.

View attachment 67222258

Antifa is worse. Not only is it violent but it is dedicated to the destruction of government and the American way of life. It doesn't save lives. My facts are perfectly straight. I have a different rank of priorities than you do. I think both groups should be taken apart at the seams. But Antifa is by far the more danagerous.
 
Trying to play the numbers game?

The Department of Homeland Security (DHS) has formally classified the activities of anti-fascist groups (antifa) as “domestic terrorist violence” since early 2016, according to confidential law enforcement documents.

Yet, there's not one instance of Antifa "terrorism" at all. Just more false equivalence from the mealy-mouthed liars.

I guess you couldn't be bothered to note that.
 
Antifa is worse. Not only is it violent but it is dedicated to the destruction of government and the American way of life. It doesn't save lives. My facts are perfectly straight. I have a different rank of priorities than you do. I think both groups should be taken apart at the seams. But Antifa is by far the more danagerous.

Tell us again, how many people did Antifa murder in Charlottesville? The Nazis murdered 2, and injured dozens more.

Antifa saved lives. http://www.slate.com/articles/news_...ft_was_actually_doing_in_charlottesville.html
 
On that night, police were instructed "not to interfere", while Jews were rounded up persecuted, and killed. This is mentioned on the Antifa website, pertaining to the founding of Antifa. It mentions that sometimes authorities side with the Fascists. This happened in the Southern states as well, in the 1950s, against Blacks. I wonder if it could happen again in the US?


Not as long as people are willing to put up a fight in order to prevent it. That is to say through vigilant watch programs and concentrated marginalization of such groups and ignorance by the political parties in this country.

What CAN happen as well, is that ANY protesting can become vulnerable to being classified as a "threat", and that's what I'm leery of. "Labor unions" in particular are my top concern.

I think that concerned protesters and good cops can single out antifa/Blac Bloc people and arrest them, list them and go after the leadership; that;s one way of getting them under control and lowering the threats they pose.

Good fights for good reasons however are not going to stop; they're part of human nature.
 
Antifa is worse. Not only is it violent but it is dedicated to the destruction of government and the American way of life. It doesn't save lives. My facts are perfectly straight. I have a different rank of priorities than you do. I think both groups should be taken apart at the seams. But Antifa is by far the more danagerous.

No antifa is not worse; their violence is the same as far right groups.
 
No antifa is not worse; their violence is the same as far right groups.

It's considerably less. Nazis murdered and beat people. Antifa defended their lives. Don't let the MSM fool you.
 
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