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Thread: AntiFa and Freedom of Speech from the Horse's Mouth

  1. #11
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    Re: AntiFa and Freedom of Speech from the Horse's Mouth

    Quote Originally Posted by Nap View Post
    I agree that he made some good points but he also took those points to reach some ridiculous conclusions.

    What is odd to me is that he is against government while simultaneously against capitalism. It appears we simply have completely different world views but draw similar conclusions as to the root cause to many of the issues we face which is government overreach. A capitalist society is in my opinion the only sustainable economic system that would work with little to no government interference. While I think Anarcho-capitalist are a bit too extreme, I think the ideas behind the view are more realistic than the utopian pipedream that is anarcho-communism.
    I agree, Anarchy in general is nonsense, and utterly unsustainable if we want to continue to enjoy the lifestyle to which we have become accustomed - and that's all the way to the bottom, Anarchy would represent a complete flush.

    Some of the criticisms are spot on, though...and are worth consideration amongst the more moderate / centric folks who can actually stop ranting and raving long enough to come up with a feasible solution.
    Life's too short...

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    Re: AntiFa and Freedom of Speech from the Horse's Mouth

    Quote Originally Posted by Nap View Post
    I was able to find it, it was one of the articles at the top when I searched.
    Thanks, I think the site blinked out for a bit, I couldn't access it via my computer or phone, and then it came back. Get out the tinfoil hats, conspiracy theories to follow... haha
    Life's too short...

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    Re: AntiFa and Freedom of Speech from the Horse's Mouth

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    I don't believe that ignorance is bliss, but I also don't generally give idiots the time of day.
    And yet you've spent time talking to me...huh!
    Life's too short...

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    Re: AntiFa and Freedom of Speech from the Horse's Mouth

    Quote Originally Posted by OlNate View Post
    With all the discussion around AntiFa and their opposition to "Freedom of Speech", I figured it might be fun to post what AntiFa is saying. This is from their website, which I checked out thanks to one of our Right leaning friends here at DP.

    https://itsgoingdown.org/liberal-myth-free-speech/

    Now, before this turns into a giant "**** YOU, NATE!!!", I will lead out by saying that I am not specifically condoning, endorsing, or defending anything herein, this was merely to provide context for those interested in knowing where AntiFa stands, so as to avoid talking out one's ass about things they don't really totally know about.

    That said, the author makes some pretty damn good points, and it would be interesting to see it debated, if we can avoid this turning into 50 pages of "AntiFa sucks, **** you!!" "No, Nazis suck, **** you!!" "No, the Left sucks, **** you!!" "No, the Right sucks, **** you!!".
    From your link to itsgoingdown.com . . .

    My own personal feelings about a society in which free, open, unobstructed discourse exists are irrelevant. I do not believe in free speech in that I find it ridiculous to think we currently live or for that matter ever have lived in such a society. Free speech as it pertains to the US should be viewed in the same light as any other national myth which abstractly conveys a hypothetical value system. Nice enough on paper, utterly non-existent in practice
    This guy obviously doesn't even understand the concept. And his own group, in practice, doesn't believe in it. Not sure of your point.
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    Re: AntiFa and Freedom of Speech from the Horse's Mouth

    Quote Originally Posted by OlNate View Post
    I agree, Anarchy in general is nonsense, and utterly unsustainable if we want to continue to enjoy the lifestyle to which we have become accustomed - and that's all the way to the bottom, Anarchy would represent a complete flush.

    Some of the criticisms are spot on, though...and are worth consideration amongst the more moderate / centric folks who can actually stop ranting and raving long enough to come up with a feasible solution.
    Anarchy is simply freedom taken to the extreme. It would be nice if it were possible but human nature would not allow it. Which is why I see Anarcho-capitalism as at least feasible due to it being based on natural human instinct (profit motive, greed). In order for communism to be sustainable you need a power structure in order to force people to comply.

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    Re: AntiFa and Freedom of Speech from the Horse's Mouth

    Quote Originally Posted by OlNate View Post
    With all the discussion around AntiFa and their opposition to "Freedom of Speech", I figured it might be fun to post what AntiFa is saying. This is from their website, which I checked out thanks to one of our Right leaning friends here at DP.

    https://itsgoingdown.org/liberal-myth-free-speech/

    Now, before this turns into a giant "**** YOU, NATE!!!", I will lead out by saying that I am not specifically condoning, endorsing, or defending anything herein, this was merely to provide context for those interested in knowing where AntiFa stands, so as to avoid talking out one's ass about things they don't really totally know about.

    That said, the author makes some pretty damn good points, and it would be interesting to see it debated, if we can avoid this turning into 50 pages of "AntiFa sucks, **** you!!" "No, Nazis suck, **** you!!" "No, the Left sucks, **** you!!" "No, the Right sucks, **** you!!".
    Nothing but utter, self-serving nonsense.

    Quick to claim the certainty of violence from the groups he doesn't like, but makes no mention of the violence HIS group engages in on a regular basis.

    Justifies his claims that groups he doesn't like do not deserve freedom of speech because "...free speech has never existed in America."

    /article resoundingly dismissed


    btw, the link loaded just fine for me.
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    Re: AntiFa and Freedom of Speech from the Horse's Mouth

    Quote Originally Posted by MaggieD View Post
    Not sure of your point.
    No point, said so in the OP. Just posting it as a reference... Feel free to agree or dismiss as you see fit, I'm definitely not defending it as a whole, merely pointing out that some of the arguments are good ones, even if better resolved by far less fanatical people.
    Life's too short...

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    Re: AntiFa and Freedom of Speech from the Horse's Mouth

    Quote Originally Posted by OlNate View Post
    No point, said so in the OP. Just posting it as a reference... Feel free to agree or dismiss as you see fit, I'm definitely not defending it as a whole, merely pointing out that some of the arguments are good ones, even if better resolved by far less fanatical people.
    There are better ways to achieve a goal than what ATIFA is using.
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    Re: AntiFa and Freedom of Speech from the Horse's Mouth

    Quote Originally Posted by RetiredUSN View Post
    There are better ways to achieve a goal than what ATIFA is using.
    Totally agree!
    Life's too short...

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    Re: AntiFa and Freedom of Speech from the Horse's Mouth

    It is well worth a read. I just don't know how the author comes to the conclusion that the best way to move their positions forward is to engage in violence. I can accept that free speech is unequal in its power in the United States. After all, donations to candidates is considered free speech which certainly implies that people with more money have more free speech during elections. I guess it is easy to understand the violence when I remind myself that groups like this are interested in destroying the state entirely. I get so used to them being lumped in with liberals that I find it easy to forget sometimes.

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