AntiFa and Freedom of Speech from the Horse's Mouth

ReverendHellh0und · Sep 13, 2017

MrWonka said:
When you're talking about Nazis and Klan members there is nothing to hear out. There is no rational discourse with fascists. If Nazis were capable of rational discourse they wouldn't be Nazis in the first place.

When you're talking about ANTIFA there is nothing to hear out. There is no rational discourse with fascists pretending to be antifascist. If ANTIFA was capable of rational discourse they wouldn't be ANTIFA in the first place.

Antifa would not exist if facists didn't come first. You don't like antifa then get ride of fascim, and antifa will go away voluntarily.

ANTIFA are communists who are the same fascist creature as the nazis, both are murderous ideologies. ANTIFA will be around as long as FIFA is around. They'll survive as they are now, by labeling anyone they disagree with as a nazi.

Ikari · Sep 13, 2017

MrWonka said:
That's a lovely thing to say, but the reason why Trolling and flaming aren't allowed on most forums is that it's incredibly difficult to resist fighting back when someone is saying vicious and horrible things about you or people you care about. That's what causes the debate to break down in the first place. Rather than expecting other more reasonable members of the forum to just be the bigger person most forums just nip it in the bud, before it gets out of hand by blocking the person who initiates it. The Klan is the initiator. Fascist are the instigators.

If some guy was calling my girlfriend or daughter a slut, by law I shouldn't punch his as for it, but if a guy did haul off and deck the prick there are few who would take issue with it. We have laws against violence because we never want to condone violence, and when in doubt we should always err on the side of avoiding violence, but when you're talking about Nazis and Klan members there's no doubt they deserve just about anything bad that happens to them. I congratulate you if you have the will power to hold back from beating their asses, but I'm not throwing the book at anybody who struggles with it.

I'd definitely "throw the book" at anyone using violence for political intimidation. It's unacceptable in a free society.

MrWonka said:
Bull****. Steve Bannon is a white supremicist, and while he may not have a job in the current administration he wasn't fired cause Trump hated him, he was fired because the Trump administration was worried about perception. The right is careful not to give the appearance that they endorse bigotry, but that is an act. Every chance they get to sillently fist bump the Klan when nobody is looking they take it. White supremicy is far more rampant in the Republican party than Republicans will admit openly. Trump could not have won without them. If you don't think they're in charge then you are naive.

Virtually every sane rational person in this country supports DACA. The only people advocating for it to end are White Supremicists. When the vast majority of Americans, even significant chucks of the Republican party are saying don't end DACA, why would Trump end it if he's not Kowtowing to the Klan?

I'm sorry, but this is not a drill. Fascist are in control of this country right now as we speak and if you don't understand that you're delusional.

There is certainly a level of fascism in control of the Corporate State. It's not just the Republicans that are fostering it either, it's the whole of the Republocrats. But it's not being run by the Klan, that's just some silly fantasy. And setting things on fire and using political intimidation won't fix it, it's self defeating. So even if we are to say "OK, there is a disturbing trend towards fascism in our government", antifa is NOT going to fix it, they aren't going to solve the problem. Likely, they're just going to make it worse. And if you think their use of violence, chaos, and political intimidation will; well then you are far more naive than I.

MrWonka · Sep 13, 2017

ReverendHellh0und said:
When you're talking about ANTIFA there is nothing to hear out.

Sure there is. They believe that Nazis and Klan members are evil. Do you disagree?

You may disagree with their tactics, but not their stated political views.

ReverendHellh0und said:
ANTIFA are communists

Blatantly false. Furthermore, there is nothing inherently evil about Communism. It is foolish, and largely unworkable, but not evil.

Even if you could demonstrate that the majority of Antifa hold communistic views, that does not mean they are interested in using their tactics to implement communism. It is simply to fight fascism. That is all.

ReverendHellh0und · Sep 13, 2017

MrWonka said:
Sure there is. They believe that Nazis and Klan members are evil. Do you disagree?

You may disagree with their tactics, but not their stated political views.

So if Nambla starts fighting nazis, they are now good guys?

Thier stated tactics and goals includes labeling anyone who disagrees with them as a nazi.

They are as fascist, and back a more murderous ideology but they are the "good guys"?

Blatantly false. Furthermore, there is nothing inherently evil about Communism. It is foolish, and largely unworkable, but not evil.

Tell that to the 100 million plus that died at the hands of communism.

Even if you could demonstrate that the majority of Antifa hold communistic views, that does not mean they are interested in using their tactics to implement communism. It is simply to fight fascism. That is all.

They don't fight fascism, they attack a handful of nazis but also anyone on the right who gets in thier way. They are scum, just like the nazis.,

They are fascist, in the name of "socialism" and communism, which are both genocidal ideologies.

MrWonka · Sep 13, 2017

Ikari said:
I'd definitely "throw the book" at anyone using violence for political intimidation. It's unacceptable in a free society.

And what about retaliating against a clear instigator. If a man punches another man for calling his girlfriend a slut, how would you judge them?

Nazis and Klan members argue for the murder and enslavement of minorities, and total dominance by white Christians. If that doesn't make your blood boil you need to take a serious look at yourself and ask yourself what kind of person you are.

Ikari said:
There is certainly a level of fascism in control of the Corporate State. It's not just the Republicans that are fostering it either, it's the whole of the Republocrats. But it's not being run by the Klan, that's just some silly fantasy.

You are dead wrong, and we cannot sit around waiting for your ignorance to clear before we begin to fight evil. When Nazis started storming accross Europe in the 1930's America largely sat on the side line not wanting to get to involved because naive people didn't take them seriously enough. It took Pearl Harbor to shake people like yourself out of your denial. We can't afford to wait for that to happen again.

Ikari · Sep 13, 2017

MrWonka said:
And what about retaliating against a clear instigator. If a man punches another man for calling his girlfriend a slut, how would you judge them?

With assault.

MrWonka said:
Nazis and Klan members argue for the murder and enslavement of minorities, and total dominance by white Christians. If that doesn't make your blood boil you need to take a serious look at yourself and ask yourself what kind of person you are.

Nazi's say a lot of things. But they're not in charge. They've been having marches and rallies for decades now, but they aren't what they once were. So long as they are doing is running their mouths, then it ends there.

MrWonka said:
You are dead wrong, and we cannot sit around waiting for your ignorance to clear before we begin to fight evil. When Nazis started storming accross Europe in the 1930's America largely sat on the side line not wanting to get to involved because naive people didn't take them seriously enough. It took Pearl Harbor to shake people like yourself out of your denial. We can't afford to wait for that to happen again.

I'm not dead wrong, you're just seeing Nazi's everywhere you look. You're not going to shake anyone out of denial through vandalism, violence, and political intimidation. That's the end all be all of it. If there's a problem, you're going to need to change up tactics because this antifa, spoiled upper-middle class college kid tantrum isn't going to cut it. It's self defeating. it's turning people away from the message.

You think you're fighting? You're not. The violence will not work. Don't have the numbers, don't have the message, don't have the coherence, won't make the change. Not only won't you make the change, the blowback is going to leave us in a worse spot than where we started. Thanks a lot.

Maybe next time the antifa people will actually THINK about what they're doing, what their goals are, how they will realistically achieve it before putting the rest of us behind the 8-ball.

MrWonka · Sep 13, 2017

ReverendHellh0und said:
So if Nambla starts fighting nazis, they are now good guys?

If a member of NAMBLA wanted to help storm the beaches of Normandy I wouldn't stop them, but if you're seriously comparing people who aren't huge fans of capitalism with men who want to have sex with boys there is something wrong with you.

ReverendHellh0und said:
Thier stated tactics and goals includes labeling anyone who disagrees with them as a nazi.

When you are Antifa anybody that disagrees with your goal is by definition a fascist. Now, if the day comes that they switch from being anti-facist to being pro-communist I will happily help you fight them, but I think you'll find that on that day we won't need to fight them. They will be more than happy to engage in a rational debate.

ReverendHellh0und said:
They are as fascist, and back a more murderous ideology but they are the "good guys"?

False. They do not back an ideology. They are against an ideology. Whether many of them have a similar ideology in mind is largely irrelevant. Particularly when there is nothing about that ideology that is enherently evil.

ReverendHellh0und said:
Tell that to the 100 million plus that died at the hands of communism.

Again your conflating communism with tyrannical disctatorship. An economic system and a form of government are two different things. What Bernie people advocate for has little in common with what was implemented in the soviet union, china, or north korea. It is far more like the systems currently implemented in places like Sweden, Denmark, Norway, Australia, New Zealand, Canada, and other large chunks of Europe.

ReverendHellh0und said:
They don't fight fascism, they attack a handful of nazis but also anyone on the right who gets in thier way.

Why is the Right defending Nazis? Maybe the right shouldn't be getting in the way. Do so many Nazis vote Republican that the Republican party needs to protect their base?

ReverendHellh0und said:
They are fascist, in the name of "socialism" and communism, which are both genocidal ideologies.

False. Fascism is by definition a genocidal ideology. Socialism and Communism are economic systems that do not require anything resembling genocide. Maybe a bit more control than some would like, but genocide is not even remotely a stated goal or even a tactic many would support.

ReverendHellh0und · Sep 13, 2017

MrWonka said:
If a member of NAMBLA wanted to help storm the beaches of Normandy I wouldn't stop them, but if you're seriously comparing people who aren't huge fans of capitalism with men who want to have sex with boys there is something wrong with you.

If you want to ignore the murder of 100 million plus, I'd argue the issue of something being wrong is not with me, sir.

You dismiss the historical brutality of communism, the same way nazis play down thier brutality.

When you are Antifa anybody that disagrees with your goal is by definition a fascist. Now, if the day comes that they switch from being anti-facist to being pro-communist I will happily help you fight them, but I think you'll find that on that day we won't need to fight them. They will be more than happy to engage in a rational debate.

I am not ANTIFA, I don't belong to that anarcho-communist terror group so no, your statement is false. I've punched many a nazi punk/skin in my lifetime, Never claimed red action, ARA, or ANTIFA because I am not, nor ever was I a communist leftist.

False. They do not back an ideology. They are against an ideology. Whether many of them have a similar ideology in mind is largely irrelevant. Particularly when there is nothing about that ideology that is enherently evil.

Communism is inherently evil because every time it's tried, mass murder of millions have occurred. far more so, and in far more places than nazi atrocities.

Again your conflating communism with tyrannical disctatorship. An economic system and a form of government are two different things. What Bernie people advocate for has little in common with what was implemented in the soviet union, china, or north korea. It is far more like the systems currently implemented in places like Sweden, Denmark, Norway, Australia, New Zealand, Canada, and other large chunks of Europe.

:lol: you think the violent ANTIFA are happy with those countries, you should google them in those countries. you are suggesting a radical communist group is really in support of democratic socialism, they are not.

When you attack people who are not racists, and try to murder them, calling them racist, how is your mindset any different than the handful of actual nazis they sometimes fight?

ANTIFA are a fascist terrorist group.

Why is the Right defending Nazis? Maybe the right shouldn't be getting in the way. Do so many Nazis vote Republican that the Republican party needs to protect their base?

Lies, now you are doing exactly what ANTIFA does. the right is not "defending nazis".

Mike Rowe says it best.

"[FONT=&quot]“You say that White Nationalists believe that everyone who goes to college is an ‘academic elite.’ You then say that Republicans promote ‘anti-intellectualism.’ You offer no proof to support either claim, but it really doesn’t matter – your statements successfully connect two radically different organizations by alleging a shared belief,” Rowe said. “Thus, White Nationalists and The Republican Party suddenly have something in common – a contempt for higher education. Then, you make it personal. You say that Republicans “love” me because they believe that my initiative and ‘their’ initiative are one and the same. But of course, ‘their’ initiative is now the same initiative as White Nationalists.

“Very clever. Without offering a shred of evidence, you’ve implied that Republicans who support mikeroweWORKS do so because they believe I share their disdain for all things ‘intellectual.’ And poof – just like that, Republicans, White Nationalists, and mikeroweWORKS are suddenly conflated, and the next thing you know, I’m off on a press tour to disavow rumors of my troubling association with the Nazis!”"

https://www.facebook.com/TheRealMik...9994.116999698310182/1639268949416575/?type=3

[/FONT]That's you in a nutshell.

False. Fascism is by definition a genocidal ideology. Socialism and Communism are economic systems that do not require anything resembling genocide. Maybe a bit more control than some would like, but genocide is not even remotely a stated goal or even a tactic many would support.

cept they killed more than the fascists. so what is your point?

The way antifa has tried to murder regular right wingers who are not nazis begs to differ.

dirtpoorchris · Sep 13, 2017

MrWonka said:
If a member of NAMBLA wanted to help storm the beaches of Normandy I wouldn't stop them, but if you're seriously comparing people who aren't huge fans of capitalism with men who want to have sex with boys there is something wrong with you.

When you are Antifa anybody that disagrees with your goal is by definition a fascist. Now, if the day comes that they switch from being anti-facist to being pro-communist I will happily help you fight them, but I think you'll find that on that day we won't need to fight them. They will be more than happy to engage in a rational debate.

False. They do not back an ideology. They are against an ideology. Whether many of them have a similar ideology in mind is largely irrelevant. Particularly when there is nothing about that ideology that is enherently evil.

Again your conflating communism with tyrannical disctatorship. An economic system and a form of government are two different things. What Bernie people advocate for has little in common with what was implemented in the soviet union, china, or north korea. It is far more like the systems currently implemented in places like Sweden, Denmark, Norway, Australia, New Zealand, Canada, and other large chunks of Europe.

Why is the Right defending Nazis? Maybe the right shouldn't be getting in the way. Do so many Nazis vote Republican that the Republican party needs to protect their base?

False. Fascism is by definition a genocidal ideology. Socialism and Communism are economic systems that do not require anything resembling genocide. Maybe a bit more control than some would like, but genocide is not even remotely a stated goal or even a tactic many would support.

So when Antifa attacks a cop the cops become the Nazi's?

haymarket · Sep 13, 2017

OpportunityCost said:
Barring evidence of course. There is that moving goalpost again.

Your opinion articles criticizing ANTIFA are NOT evidence of the definition of fascism. You gave us one and it failed miserably and you fave been impotent to back it up with any objective authoritative source.

I dislike Antifa because they use violence, intimidation and rioting to achieve political goals...like fascists.

That means you hate the US military for what they did in World War 2 since they also used violence and intimidation to achieve political goals.

That is how utterly inane your definition of fascism is.

OpportunityCost · Sep 13, 2017

haymarket said:
Your opinion articles criticizing ANTIFA are NOT evidence of the definition of fascism. You gave us one and it failed miserably and you fave been impotent to back it up with any objective authoritative source.

You don't get to define objective, because you aren't. Those articles are some of the same news sources that have shown sympathy to Antifa in the past. They are critical of them because they deserve criticism.

That means you hate the US military for what they did in World War 2 since they also used violence and intimidation to achieve political goals.

Someone doesn't know the difference between nation states and individuals and groups. Do you understand how war works? I have to ask because your oversimplifications are just naïve in the extreme.

That is how utterly inane your definition of fascism is.

Except that it is entirely accurate in regards to the thug organization Antifa.

haymarket · Sep 13, 2017

OpportunityCost said:
You don't get to define objective,

Actually, when we are talking about definitions, OBJECTIVE means any authoritative source that is accepted as providing definitions as an accepted authority. A normal dictionary - and there are dozens of them - normally fits that description.

Your opinion articles are NOT.

Someone doesn't know the difference between nation states and individuals and groups

That is just you being desperate and trying to change the goalposts to a different field. Fascism is fascism is fascism and its components do not change. You told us that fascists are people who use violence and intimidation to further their political aims. And that fits to a tee the United States and their armed forces in World War Two battling real fascists who also used those things but it is NOT those things which define them.

Again, you have provided no authoritative objective definition which agrees with you. This is just you being right wing and hating on some group you think is left wing. Thats all this is. So you continue in the right wing desire to purge your own ideology of being close to fascism on the standard political continuum by labeling a leftist group as fascist.

But you simply were wrong in what makes a fascist in the first place.

And you owe me some egg rolls unless you still have a way to go in your digging - and I fully expect you will not stop.

OpportunityCost · Sep 13, 2017

haymarket said:
Actually, when we are talking about definitions, OBJECTIVE means any authoritative source that is accepted as providing definitions as an accepted authority. A normal dictionary - and there are dozens of them - normally fits that description.

Your opinion articles are NOT.

I'm sorry you feel reporting across the political spectrum is not authoritative, its has been enough for you in the past, maybe you are just making **** up at this point.

That is just you being desperate and trying to change the goalposts to a different field. Fascism is fascism is fascism and its components do not change. You told us that fascists are people who use violence and intimidation to further their political aims. And that fits to a tee the United States and their armed forces in World War Two battling real fascists who also used those things but it is NOT those things which define them.

Fascism as a definition in regards to entire countries and in relation to individual and group actions differ. This has been pointed out to you repeatedly, you keep ignoring it. Its kind of getting old.

Again, you have provided no authoritative objective definition which agrees with you. This is just you being right wing and hating on some group you think is left wing. Thats all this is. So you continue in the right wing desire to purge your own ideology of being close to fascism on the standard political continuum by labeling a leftist group as fascist.

Yet we have just your miserable, ****ty opinion. I'm sorry if you want to debunk my argument you should provide SOME support of yours. You have yet to even try.

But you simply were wrong in what makes a fascist in the first place.

And you owe me some egg rolls unless you still have a way to go in your digging - and I fully expect you will not stop.

Lets see, fascists shut down the civil liberties of others using violence and intimidation to seize political control. What is Antifa doing again?

So why are you so hell bent on defending Antifa anyway? You like the fascists or something?

haymarket · Sep 13, 2017

OpportunityCost said:
I'm sorry you feel reporting across the political spectrum is not authoritative, its has been enough for you in the past, maybe you are just making **** up at this point.

The only **** made up was your definition of fascism which you have not been able to support with any objective authoritative source of evidence

Articles criticizing ANTIFA are NOT that evidence.

Lets see, fascists shut down the civil liberties of others using violence and intimidation to seize political control.

Fascists poop and pee every day also. So what? The USA shut down the civil liberties of many Americans to defeat the fascists in WW2. Does that also make us fascist as well because we did that and used violence and intimidation to further out political goals?

Of course it does not and it shows you how utterly inane your statement was.

But this is NOT about fascism.

And this is NOT about ANTIFA.

And this is not about definitions.

Its about you seeing me as somebody you must oppose and it galls you to your very core that I corrected you and will not let you move the goal posts and get out of the corner you painted yourself into. That is what this really about for you.

OpportunityCost · Sep 13, 2017

haymarket said:
The only **** made up was your definition of fascism which you have not been able to support with any objective authoritative source of evidence

Articles criticizing ANTIFA are NOT that evidence.

Yet you continue to provide nothing more than nuh-uh as evidence.

Fascists poop and pee every day also. So what? The USA shut down the civil liberties of many Americans to defeat the fascists in WW2. Does that also make us fascist as well because we did that and used violence and intimidation to further out political goals?

Of course it does not and it shows you how utterly inane your statement was.

But this is NOT about fascism.

And this is NOT about ANTIFA.

And this is not about definitions.

Its about you seeing me as somebody you must oppose and it galls you to your very core that I corrected you and will not let you move the goal posts and get out of the corner you painted yourself into. That is what this really about for you.

Still can't get past the difference between fascism as practiced by a country and fascists which use it as a political tool, I see.

haymarket · Sep 14, 2017

OpportunityCost said:
Yet you continue to provide nothing more than nuh-uh as evidence.

Still can't get past the difference between fascism as practiced by a country and fascists which use it as a political tool, I see.

Evidence? What statement of alleged fact did I make that requires evidence? I made none other than to correct your own misstatement. That is the way this works.

As for confusion - fascists are fascists are fascists. But if you want to pretend that ANTIFA is fascist, you first need to present your definition of what constitutes a fascist so we can see if that measures up.

OH WAIT!!!!! You did that already and it failed miserably since your definition makes the USA fascists for their activities in World War 2 defeating actual real true fascists.

Quote Originally Posted by OpportunityCost View Post
If they are using violence and intimidation to achieve their ends, they are being fascists because of their methods. Using euphemisms to pretty it up is intellectually bankrupt.

The only confusion here is yours and its all based on your hostility to me which goes back a long long ways. Its pretty sad really.

OpportunityCost · Sep 14, 2017

haymarket said:
Evidence? What statement of alleged fact did I make that requires evidence? I made none other than to correct your own misstatement. That is the way this works.

As for confusion - fascists are fascists are fascists. But if you want to pretend that ANTIFA is fascist, you first need to present your definition of what constitutes a fascist so we can see if that measures up.

OH WAIT!!!!! You did that already and it failed miserably since your definition makes the USA fascists for their activities in World War 2 defeating actual real true fascists.

The only confusion here is yours and its all based on your hostility to me which goes back a long long ways. Its pretty sad really.

I don't see you providing any information on what you think defines fascists.

Here let me help via Robert Paxton:

Fascism may be defined as a form of political behavior marked by obsessive preoccupation with community decline, humiliation, or victim-hood and by compensatory cults of unity, energy, and purity, in which a mass-based party of committed nationalist militants, working in uneasy but effective collaboration with traditional elites, abandons democratic liberties and pursues with redemptive violence and without ethical or legal restraints goals of internal cleansing and external expansion

https://www.mtholyoke.edu/courses/rschwart/hist151/Paxton_Fascism/Paxton_mainpoints.htm

They haven't quite gone into "cleansing" but they sure seem to be into redemptive violence and victimhood. So when I described Antifa as a group of individuals who seek to use violence and physical intimidation to curtail civil liberties, my simplified definition still seems to apply to them. Your expanded misrepresentation of what I said is an attempt to pair fascism as a nation state to fascist behavior in individuals and small groups. Its just wrong and a fallacy to boot but you keep hammering at that screw because when all you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail.

haymarket · Sep 14, 2017

OpportunityCost said:
I don't see you providing any information on what you think defines fascists.

I made no claim about what defines fascists. What about that so befuddles and confuses you that it causes you to stay in a corner of your own creation repeating the same thing that has been repeatedly exposed as utter nonsense?

Quote Originally Posted by OpportunityCost View Post
If they are using violence and intimidation to achieve their ends, they are being fascists because of their methods. Using euphemisms to pretty it up is intellectually bankrupt.

You were the one defining fascism. All I did was to point out the total wrongness of your statement since it could also apply to the US effort to actually defeat real life actual true fascists in World War Two.

OpportunityCost · Sep 14, 2017

haymarket said:
I made no claim about what defines fascists. What about that so befuddles and confuses you that it causes you to stay in a corner of your own creation repeating the same thing that has been repeatedly exposed as utter nonsense?

You were the one defining fascism. All I did was to point out the total wrongness of your statement since it could also apply to the US effort to actually defeat real life actual true fascists in World War Two.

And yet I give you a definition that primarily agrees with me and you are still whining.

haymarket · Sep 14, 2017

OpportunityCost said:
And yet I give you a definition that primarily agrees with me and you are still whining.

I must have missed that one. In which post do you claim to have done this?

Aside from your own wrong definition, this is all I can find that you posted

Here let me help via Robert Paxton:

Fascism may be defined as a form of political behavior marked by obsessive preoccupation with community decline, humiliation, or victim-hood and by compensatory cults of unity, energy, and purity, in which a mass-based party of committed nationalist militants, working in uneasy but effective collaboration with traditional elites, abandons democratic liberties and pursues with redemptive violence and without ethical or legal restraints goals of internal cleansing and external expansion

That DOES not say what you claimed in your statement.

Quote Originally Posted by OpportunityCost View Post
If they are using violence and intimidation to achieve their ends, they are being fascists because of their methods. Using euphemisms to pretty it up is intellectually bankrupt.

I am glad to see you are trying to correct the record and present something beyond your earlier wrong statement. But please do NOT pretend that this statement from Paxton is what you earlier said because it is not at all the same.

OpportunityCost · Sep 14, 2017

haymarket said:
I must have missed that one. In which post do you claim to have done this?

Aside from your own wrong definition, this is all I can find that you posted

And multiple news articles.

That DOES not say what you claimed in your statement.

According to your biased opinion.

I am glad to see you are trying to correct the record and present something beyond your earlier wrong statement. But please do NOT pretend that this statement from Paxton is what you earlier said because it is not at all the same.

You lost, you may leave.

haymarket · Sep 14, 2017

OpportunityCost said:
And multiple news articles.

According to your biased opinion.

You lost, you may leave.

All your news articles is Antifa is bad. Nothing in it repeats you ridiculous and inane definition of fascism. But then you know that because its been told to you countless times already.

You are delusional - not to mention dead wrong about what constitutes fascism.

But that pales to your obsession with being upset that somebody like me proved you wrong. Its really sad to watch.

OpportunityCost · Sep 14, 2017

haymarket said:
All your news articles is Antifa is bad. Nothing in it repeats you ridiculous and inane definition of fascism. But then you know that because its been told to you countless times already.

The news articles are objective because they are from both sides of the political spectrum. They say Antifa is bad because Antifa IS bad.

You are delusional - not to mention dead wrong about what constitutes fascism.

Nevermind that the definition I posted agrees with me on several points.

But that pales to your obsession with being upset that somebody like me proved you wrong. Its really sad to watch.

Coming from the person that has supported his ideas with nothing but his opinion, that doesn't count for anything. Please support your opinion that Antifa are peaceful protesters and do not use violence to silence the free speech of others.

haymarket · Sep 15, 2017

OpportunityCost said:
The news articles are objective because they are from both sides of the political spectrum. They say Antifa is bad because Antifa IS bad.

You were directly challenged to present evidence of your claim about what constitutes fascism. Those articles FAIL to do that. But then you damn well know that because it has repeatedly been explained to you by more than just myself.

Nevermind that the definition I posted agrees with me on several points.

The definition you provided does NOT state what you did and states fascism is constituted of much much more than the simple factor of violence and intimidation you cited that makes one a fascist. In fact, if you apply your wrong headed statement to the US armed forces during WW2, they are fascists by your definition. They would NOT be by the longer, far more complete and complex other definition later presented when you tried to get out of the corner you painted yourself into.

Here let me help via Robert Paxton:

Fascism may be defined as a form of political behavior marked by obsessive preoccupation with community decline, humiliation, or victim-hood and by compensatory cults of unity, energy, and purity, in which a mass-based party of committed nationalist militants, working in uneasy but effective collaboration with traditional elites, abandons democratic liberties and pursues with redemptive violence and without ethical or legal restraints goals of internal cleansing and external expansion

That DOES not say what you claimed in your statement.

Quote Originally Posted by OpportunityCost View Post
If they are using violence and intimidation to achieve their ends, they are being fascists because of their methods. Using euphemisms to pretty it up is intellectually bankrupt.

Your definition was not and is not the Paxton definition so stop pretending it was or is.

Please support your opinion that Antifa are peaceful protesters and do not use violence to silence the free speech of others.

Now you are making up pure crap and pretending it came from me. If I said that, man up and quote me to show you did not pull it out of thin air. You can't. You won't.

I have absolutely no reason to lift a little finger in defense of ANTIFA as I never said what you claim I did about them. It is a sign of your increasingly desperation to get out of that corner again.

OpportunityCost · Sep 15, 2017

haymarket said:
You were directly challenged to present evidence of your claim about what constitutes fascism. Those articles FAIL to do that. But then you damn well know that because it has repeatedly been explained to you by more than just myself.

The definition you provided does NOT state what you did and states fascism is constituted of much much more than the simple factor of violence and intimidation you cited that makes one a fascist. In fact, if you apply your wrong headed statement to the US armed forces during WW2, they are fascists by your definition. They would NOT be by the longer, far more complete and complex other definition later presented when you tried to get out of the corner you painted yourself into.

That DOES not say what you claimed in your statement.

Your definition was not and is not the Paxton definition so stop pretending it was or is.

Now you are making up pure crap and pretending it came from me. If I said that, man up and quote me to show you did not pull it out of thin air. You can't. You won't.

I have absolutely no reason to lift a little finger in defense of ANTIFA as I never said what you claim I did about them. It is a sign of your increasingly desperation to get out of that corner again.

Dude, you're wrong. Its ok. Move on.

AntiFa and Freedom of Speech from the Horse's Mouth

ReverendHellh0und

I don't respect you.

Ikari

MrWonka

ReverendHellh0und

I don't respect you.

MrWonka

Ikari

MrWonka

ReverendHellh0und

I don't respect you.

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