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Free Speech and Nazi Doctrine

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haymarket said:
The article contains NO VERIFIABLE EVIDENCE SUPPORTING YOUR CLAIM OF ALLEGED FACT THAT A MAJORITY SUPPORTED HITLER.

The only evidence we have of an expression of the will of the German people is the 32 election cycle and in that Hitler and the Nazi's failed to reach a majority.
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Your OPINION is noted....

And your ability to ignore the obvious is amazing.
 
Fledermaus said:
Your OPINION is noted....

And your ability to ignore the obvious is amazing.
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Ones opinion about a proven historical fact is still a fact.

I have not ignored the obvious - which is you have offered no verifiable evidence for your claim that a majority of Germans supported Hitler.
 
calamity said:
Nazi doctrine calls for the extermination of Jews and other people deemed "lesser" by White Supremacists. IMO, such speech should not be legal in the US. Period.
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So easy to draw lines. What stops the next line? And the next. Oh hell.. Forget lines and just broad brush everything. Now what?

This is like lying. Do you remember what you lied about last week or the week before?

So much easier to just tell the truth and not have to remember anything...

Hate crime is no different than a crime and all crimes should be prosecuted. So many arbitrary and unnecessary distinctions designed to create further bureaucracy and red tape.

Free speech is either free or not. Speech is not violence. Thank goodness or many of us here would have been killed off by now.

In this day and age the youngest Nazi is around 89 and is lucky to get to the bathroom on time. WS wannabe loons are marginalized and have no voting power.

Hillarys mentor and grand Cyclops kkk advisor Byrd is unlikely to come back from the dead.
 
haymarket said:
Then we differ about the connection and responsibility of citizens and those who represent them. When the elected representatives act against the interests of the people they are suppose to be representing, their actions are their own and are not the sins of the people who elected them. And in the case of Germany, lots and lots of the peoples representatives ended up purged and removed so they could not do their job. The infamous Reichstag fire and the actions taken by the Nazis as a result of it being but the first example. So the relationship between the German people and those in government was hardly representative in nature but far far more authoritarian and dictatorial.
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If the representative breaks the law or persists in activities and is not removed, it is quite clear that one has accepted it. This is true in civil law and political systems alike. How else should democracy work, that to insist that yhe citizens are responsible for its maintenance?
 
joG said:
If the representative breaks the law or persists in activities and is not removed, it is quite clear that one has accepted it. This is true in civil law and political systems alike. How else should democracy work, that to insist that yhe citizens are responsible for its maintenance?
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And if the representative changes the law so that it reflects the will of those in power and not the people while taking steps to demonstrate to the people that resistance is futile and harshly punished leaving democracy behind and traveling down the road to unbridled authoritarianism?
 
haymarket said:
And if the representative changes the law so that it reflects the will of those in power and not the people while taking steps to demonstrate to the people that resistance is futile and harshly punished leaving democracy behind and traveling down the road to unbridled authoritarianism?
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I don't know, ask Obama.
 
OpportunityCost said:
I don't know, ask Obama.
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That makes no sense on any level or in any way. In case you lost your place, we were talking about Nazi Germany - not contemporary USA...... . let alone the right wing obsession with Obama as the knee jerk response to almost everything.
 
haymarket said:
And if the representative changes the law so that it reflects the will of those in power and not the people while taking steps to demonstrate to the people that resistance is futile and harshly punished leaving democracy behind and traveling down the road to unbridled authoritarianism?
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That is exactly the difficulty. Local legality does not mean wider legality nor does it absolve a little cog like Eichmann or the workers eating while the slaves in the factory starve, just because the behavior is legal.
And of course one can stand back and let the democracy die, because one is afraid to act like the Scholl kids. But that doesn't mean that one is not responsible for the consequences.
 
Fledermaus said:
So, history doesn't support what I said?



So effing what? Jewish pride is a death sentence? How many Jews should be burned/gassed/shot because some are proud of their heritage?



OMFG.... Polenaktion was the FORCEFUL EXPULSION OF JEWS FROM GERMANY

From your article: "On March 31, 1938, the Polish Parliament passed a law which provided for the possibility of withdrawing citizenship from all Polish nationals who lived abroad for more than five years."

They were people without a state being FORCED by the kind and good Germans to go to a country that rejected them.



Many Americans move to Japan. They will always be Gaijin (not Japanese)

And?

Lets see...

TEL AVIV — Ori Haber’s father escaped Germany during the height of the Holocaust for what would become the State of Israel. Now Mr. Haber, a 35-year-old computer technician, is part of a cadre of frustrated young Israelis clamoring to move to Berlin in what has become a contentious campaign revealing economic fissures and identity struggles in Israel’s still-adolescent society.

“I cannot see the future here,” he said, without a touch of irony at the idea that an Israeli Jew was looking for a better life in Germany. “The middle class in Israel is going down. We feel it in our flesh.”

Even his father seemed to understand, Mr. Haber said: “He has bad memories from Germany, but still he is like, ‘If you have the opportunity, go, try your luck.' ”

Looks like economic reasons... Certainly not for love of the Anti-Semites.



Exclusive Jewish state? Jews only migration? WTH?

You can immigrate to Israel as a non-Jew.
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His post is whacky...
 
joG said:
That is exactly the difficulty. Local legality does not mean wider legality nor does it absolve a little cog like Eichmann or the workers eating while the slaves in the factory starve, just because the behavior is legal.
And of course one can stand back and let the democracy die, because one is afraid to act like the Scholl kids. But that doesn't mean that one is not responsible for the consequences.
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What wider legality are you referring to other than the law of the land?

I think I get your bigger point - that we are all ultimately responsible - and in theory at least I agree with that principle and would hope it compels everyone to be a part of the solution rather than the problem. But being a practical person I also know how things actually work in real life and I strongly suspect it is almost impossible to rouse a population against a well armed and powerful authoritarian government who makes it their practice to get rid of any opposition to it in the most forceful way.
 
haymarket said:
What wider legality are you referring to other than the law of the land?

I think I get your bigger point - that we are all ultimately responsible - and in theory at least I agree with that principle and would hope it compels everyone to be a part of the solution rather than the problem. But being a practical person I also know how things actually work in real life and I strongly suspect it is almost impossible to rouse a population against a well armed and powerful authoritarian government who makes it their practice to get rid of any opposition to it in the most forceful way.
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Pogroms are regularly legal by the law of the land as was slave labor and mass murder.

And yes. You are right that standing up against illegal activities of a well armed dictator, whose people regularly torture opponents to death is often is usually not the way things go immediately. That does not mean that refraining from resistance is justified or removes responsibility.
There is another interesting question in there. What constitutes the lowest level crime by the state and how widely must it be being commited to warrant violent résistance? After all, this is a lone decision that must be made in a situation in which discussion might be difficult.
 
joG said:
Pogroms are regularly legal by the law of the land as was slave labor and mass murder.

And yes. You are right that standing up against illegal activities of a well armed dictator, whose people regularly torture opponents to death is often is usually not the way things go immediately. That does not mean that refraining from resistance is justified or removes responsibility.
There is another interesting question in there. What constitutes the lowest level crime by the state and how widely must it be being commited to warrant violent résistance? After all, this is a lone decision that must be made in a situation in which discussion might be difficult.
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Again, I get your larger point but I am still wondering what you meant by a "wider legality" other than the law of the land?
 
haymarket said:
That makes no sense on any level or in any way. In case you lost your place, we were talking about Nazi Germany - not contemporary USA...... . let alone the right wing obsession with Obama as the knee jerk response to almost everything.
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I don't know, it was pretty accurate. He politicized government agencies to punish conservatives. While he did not precipitate violence, he did punish the opposition with the state.
 
OpportunityCost said:
I don't know, it was pretty accurate. He politicized government agencies to punish conservatives. While he did not precipitate violence, he did punish the opposition with the state.
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Sorry, but my ears are not attuned to that particular right wing dog whistle nor is it the issue that was being discussed.
 
haymarket said:
Yes - that is what was attempted by introducing Obama into the discussion.
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Don't leave you definitions so wide open as to include so many and you wont have a problem with me skewering said definition by bringing your messiah into the discussion. I was counterpointing your definition.
 
OpportunityCost said:
Don't leave you definitions so wide open as to include so many and you wont have a problem with me skewering said definition by bringing your messiah into the discussion. I was counterpointing your definition.
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Messiah!?!?!?!? WOW!!!!! I have no messiah but the far rights obsession with Obama shows just how unbalanced they are that he has been out of office for over a half year now and their knee still kicks out in automatic response when they connect those dots on different pages of different books and see Obama in their fevered minds. Its other funny really. Sad... but funny.
 
haymarket said:
Messiah!?!?!?!? WOW!!!!! I have no messiah but the far rights obsession with Obama shows just how unbalanced they are that he has been out of office for over a half year now and their knee still kicks out in automatic response when they connect those dots on different pages of different books and see Obama in their fevered minds. Its other funny really. Sad... but funny.
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Look who is STILL missing the point, even after being told what it is.
 
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