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8-0 SCOTUS Free Speech Win

You don't have to be a criminal. If there's a warrant out on you, that's enough. 'Known to abuse alcohol'? That's enough. Been indicted? Use illegal drugs? There's also a catch-all category, Federally Denied Person.

https://www.thetrace.org/2015/07/gun-background-checks-nics-failure/

And I'm not arguing anything like what you said, 'anarchy' or anything like it. It'd be nice and easy if I were, though, wouldn't it.

I don't think you read your own link very well. Not to mention that merely failing a background check doesn't deny you the possession of firearms. It doesn't even conclusively stop the sale.

In any case, you're still uncomfortably close to arguing that in order to be consistent with "inalienable rights," there can't be any law enforcement.
 
I don't think you read your own link very well. Not to mention that merely failing a background check doesn't deny you the possession of firearms. It doesn't even conclusively stop the sale.

In any case, you're still uncomfortably close to arguing that in order to be consistent with "inalienable rights," there can't be any law enforcement.

Your argument that rights are absolute is laughably false.
 
I'm all for the ruling also. Government in my opinion shouldn't be in the business of deciding what one can say or not or in this case trademark. Let whomever trademark whatever name or phrase they want. If it offends too many people, that business or band or whatever is bound to go out of business.

Let people decide what offends them or not. Keep government out of it.

Yeah, all you have to do is limit your "trademarked" epithets to populations you've functionally cleansed from the land mass and there won't be any market impact to your heavily tax payer subsidized bidness.
 
Based on what?

Phone polls that are unlikely to reach actual Native Americans and, instead, generally reach white people who say yes to the question because they have rumors of fractional native ancestry?

The poll you're probably relying on was deeply flawed. It was almost like it was intended to overlook actual Native Americans.

It's not about what words people can use, but institutions like the NFL. Now maybe you think the government shouldn't protect minorities in this case. Okay. Let me ask you this, would you think it would be cool to keep using a word when 1/10 of that minority still find it deeply offensive?

Who needs polls when you can listen to what tribal leaders say.

Redskins Facts: Native Americans Help Defend Washington Redskins Name | Time.com
 
Based on what?

Based on FAR more substantive, verifiable, and scientifically collected data than most of those arguing from the other side. This is why people like you desperately attempt to minimize and dismiss repeated attempts at legitimate scientifically conducted polling across a decade by two different entities, neither with any incentive or reason to be biased (hell, with one having clear incentive to be biased AGAINST the Redskins name), with nitpicks rather than actually providing anything of substance back or of similar quality back.

No, the WAPO and the Annenburg polls are not "deeply flawed". Are they perfect? Of course not, no polling is "perfect". But they absolutely adhere to professional standards as it relates to polling practices and are far superior and more informative then the anecdotal and/or biased in methodology arguments placed forth by the likes of you.
 
Based on FAR more substantive, verifiable, and scientifically collected data than most of those arguing from the other side. This is why people like you desperately attempt to minimize and dismiss repeated attempts at legitimate scientifically conducted polling across a decade by two different entities, neither with any incentive or reason to be biased (hell, with one having clear incentive to be biased AGAINST the Redskins name), with nitpicks rather than actually providing anything of substance back or of similar quality back.

No, the WAPO and the Annenburg polls are not "deeply flawed". Are they perfect? Of course not, no polling is "perfect". But they absolutely adhere to professional standards as it relates to polling practices and are far superior and more informative then the anecdotal and/or biased in methodology arguments placed forth by the likes of you.

Please explain to me how deeply offending even 1 in 10 Native Americans is acceptable.

Some of them probably don't care because they've got bigger problems than the props paraded around as mascots at homoerotic sporting events; problems like alcoholism and depression. After exterminating, conquering, and corralling them into "reservations", continually reneging our own signed agreements in the process, perhaps they feel that this cultural mockery is relatively insignificant.

But this just brings me back to my earlier statement. If you were using the word ni**er, but it was only heard by 1 in 10 black people who it offended, would that be acceptable to you?
 
Please explain to me how deeply offending even 1 in 10 Native Americans is acceptable.

Some of them probably don't care because they've got bigger problems than the props paraded around as mascots at homoerotic sporting events; problems like alcoholism and depression. After exterminating, conquering, and corralling them into "reservations", continually reneging our own signed agreements in the process, perhaps they feel that this cultural mockery is relatively insignificant.

But this just brings me back to my earlier statement. If you were using the word ni**er, but it was only heard by 1 in 10 black people who it offended, would that be acceptable to you?

1. Not a single thing addressed any part of my post, just threw up a strawman instead.

2. I reject the premise from the very onset that Nigger and Redskin are equivalents, and thus the question is a worthless one.

3. "Acceptable", in the scope of this ruling, shouldn't matter if it was 10 out of 10 as it relates to free speech. "Acceptable" in terms of socially acceptable? There's no use in actually trying to "explain" it to you, because you're in no way interested in any kind of honest discussion of it. But to put it simply, when that small of a population is offended by something, and their claimed offense is based on the notion of it being offensive to their race, the reality is that the offense is a personal one rather than some true transgression upon a race of people. And while, ultimately, I am not in favor of actively attempting to offend people simply for the purpose of being offensive, I do not believe in any way that the name's purpose is such a thing. Furthermore, the reality is that at this point any action in any direction is going to anger and offend various groups and entities on a personal level, and I do not necessarily hold any particular ones offense as inherently greater or of such higher concern that one course of action is the only "acceptable" one. The only person who is ultimately responsible for being offended is the person who is being offended; it is ultimately impossible to control whether an individual is offended. That is entirely an individuals feeling or reaction to something, and as such basing one's decisions singularly on the notion of whether people are "offended", is an illogical one. As one part of an overriding decision? Sure. But acceptability is not founded on the idea that "X" person/people find something offensive and thus "not acceptable".
 
1. Not a single thing addressed any part of my post, just threw up a strawman instead.

2. I reject the premise from the very onset that Nigger and Redskin are equivalents, and thus the question is a worthless one.

1. Just a phenomenally ****ty response on your part. You don't seem to understand what a strawman is, or perhaps you didn't realize that your response was one.

Here, let me spell this out for you since this is clearly necessary due to your emotional investment on this issue:

Based on FAR more substantive, verifiable, and scientifically collected data than most of those arguing from the other side.

First, this was, itself, a strawman. Good job. But that's not my point.

This is why people like you desperately attempt to minimize and dismiss repeated attempts at legitimate scientifically conducted polling across a decade by two different entities, neither with any incentive or reason to be biased (hell, with one having clear incentive to be biased AGAINST the Redskins name), with nitpicks rather than actually providing anything of substance back or of similar quality back.

Now, answer me a simple question. Let's say we had a perfect poll of all black people and we asked them how many found the word 'nigger' offensive. At what fraction do those people transition from, say, "genuinely offended" to "nitpicks"?

And don't whine equivocation again, that was pathetic the first time. I'm not equivocating, i'm using an analogy. An analogy is where you compare two DIFFERENT things in an attempt to get a point off to the recipient. In this case, the point i'm making is that disparaging a smaller minority with a pejorative term does not magically become acceptable.

But lets go back to the rest of your post, because, to your credit, you at least try to touch on this point:

3. "Acceptable", in the scope of this ruling, shouldn't matter if it was 10 out of 10 as it relates to free speech. "Acceptable" in terms of socially acceptable? There's no use in actually trying to "explain" it to you, because you're in no way interested in any kind of honest discussion of it.

Sneaking in an ad hom, bad sign. Your defensive reaction demonstrates that you are aware of the weakness of your position.

But to put it simply, when that small of a population is offended by something, and their claimed offense is based on the notion of it being offensive to their race, the reality is that the offense is a personal one rather than some true transgression upon a race of people.

No true scotsman. You even used the word "true". Freudian slip?

And while, ultimately, I am not in favor of actively attempting to offend people simply for the purpose of being offensive, I do not believe in any way that the name's purpose is such a thing.

Ah, speculation: it actually makes no difference, it is clearly indifferent to the possibility of being offensive. You're just okay with it as long as the minority is small and powerless enough. Honestly? That makes me sick.

Furthermore, the reality is that at this point any action in any direction is going to anger and offend various groups and entities on a personal level, and I do not necessarily hold any particular ones offense as inherently greater or of such higher concern that one course of action is the only "acceptable" one. The only person who is ultimately responsible for being offended is the person who is being offended; it is ultimately impossible to control whether an individual is offended. That is entirely an individuals feeling or reaction to something, and as such basing one's decisions singularly on the notion of whether people are "offended", is an illogical one. As one part of an overriding decision? Sure. But acceptability is not founded on the idea that "X" person/people find something offensive and thus "not acceptable".

And then victim blaming.

I'll agree that some people are offended by things that many others consider inoffensive. Their reflex doesn't determine whether something is offensive. At the end of the day, all we have are our own opinions.

Oh, well, and the history of oppression combined with the active celebration of a stereotype.
 
Do please provide your supporting evidence, otherwise.....

LOL, sure, why would you bother to read your own link?

The video, released by the "Redskins Facts" campaign reportedly funded by the team, features Native Americans from across the country arguing that the moniker is "a powerful name — it's a warrior's name."
This counters the message of a powerful ad paid for by the California tribe Yocha Dehe Wintun Nation during the June NBA Finals called Proud to Be, in which a voiceover said, “Native Americans call themselves many things. The one thing they don’t…” before flashing to an image of a Redskins helmet.

Seems the ad funded by Native Americans, themselves, contradicts your assertion.

I get it. Americans don't care about finding the truth, they just want confirmation that they can stick with the status quo. How depressing.
 
LOL, sure, why would you bother to read your own link?



Seems the ad funded by Native Americans, themselves, contradicts your assertion.

I get it. Americans don't care about finding the truth, they just want confirmation that they can stick with the status quo. How depressing.

That doesn't show that the Native Americas were actors versus Native Americans who support the Washington team. And by no mean am I claiming that all Native Americans are happy with the Washington team using that name, but they are not the majority.
 
That doesn't show that the Native Americas were actors versus Native Americans who support the Washington team. And by no mean am I claiming that all Native Americans are happy with the Washington team using that name, but they are not the majority.

Please explain to me how disparaging a relatively smaller minority with a pejorative term is morally acceptable.
 
Please explain to me how disparaging a relatively smaller minority with a pejorative term is morally acceptable.

don't find it morally or socially acceptable, but that does not cause it to be illegal/unConstitutional
we have become a nation of the easily offended
the redskins, the braves, the indians, and the fighting irish, plus any other named organization which causes members of the public to take offense will have to face the consequences of that segment of the public's ire
but as SCOTUS has now unanimously concluded, the first amendment protects the right to offend - if the public chooses to be offended
 
don't find it morally or socially acceptable, but that does not cause it to be illegal/unConstitutional
we have become a nation of the easily offended
the redskins, the braves, the indians, and the fighting irish, plus any other named organization which causes members of the public to take offense will have to face the consequences of that segment of the public's ire
but as SCOTUS has now unanimously concluded, the first amendment protects the right to offend - if the public chooses to be offended

I don't think the government should censor it. I think the people who claim that it's as inoffensive as apple pie are fooling themselves.
 
Please explain to me how disparaging a relatively smaller minority with a pejorative term is morally acceptable.

Morality has nothing to do with US Law. Remember, "evidence of innocence by itself is no reason to overturn a perfectly good conviction." (Paraphrased)
 
Please explain to me how disparaging a relatively smaller minority with a pejorative term is morally acceptable.

We start with the fact that whether it is disparaging or not is a subjective value. Then we note that most Native Americans do not feel that the Washington team using the name Redskins is disparaging. Regardless of the group there will always be some that find something disparaging about something. If a vast majority of said group find it to be so then we should, as society, seek not to use what is seen as disparaging. On the flip side, if only a minority of said group, are discontent, then they should not expect for others to bend to their will, especially given that a majority of their fellow group members are fine with it. There is no basic right being violated here, so this isn't comparable to not having the right to vote or other similar issues of the past.
 
I don't think the government should censor it. I think the people who claim that it's as inoffensive as apple pie are fooling themselves.

no doubt such names are offensive to some
such is life in the united states of the offended
fortunately, it has now been absolutely concluded that offending others by using a name some might find offensive is absolutely tolerated, no matter how much that name might be found to be in bad taste
 
We start with the fact that whether it is disparaging or not is a subjective value. Then we note that most Native Americans do not feel that the Washington team using the name Redskins is disparaging. Regardless of the group there will always be some that find something disparaging about something. If a vast majority of said group find it to be so then we should, as society, seek not to use what is seen as disparaging. On the flip side, if only a minority of said group, are discontent, then they should not expect for others to bend to their will, especially given that a majority of their fellow group members are fine with it. There is no basic right being violated here, so this isn't comparable to not having the right to vote or other similar issues of the past.

can't agree with this
doesn't matter whether the minority or majority of a group are offended by the use of a name
the first amendment applies to allow its usage. absolutely
for example, on these boards, our resident racists stridently object to being called out as racists. the majority of them acknowledge their being offended by referring to them with that accurate expression. even tho the majority object to that term usage, that does not make them other than racists - entitled to be referred to as racists
 
Redskins? OK. Slants? No problem. Trademarks of disparaging names will remain protected.

In Major Free Speech Victory, SCOTUS Rules for 'The Slants' and Strikes Down Federal Trademark Restriction - Hit & Run : Reason.com

Sounds fair to me. So, I am very happy to see all SCOUTUS judges, Left and Right, agree.

Come to my new restaurant: The Fur Burger.

That might be too similar to a name that's already taken: Locations - Furr's Fresh Buffet

Does Furr's serve burgers?
 
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