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Thread: Hating Free Speech

  1. #21
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    Re: Hating Free Speech

    Quote Originally Posted by MrWonka View Post
    Do you have some kind of a point here? Are you expecting someone to disagree with you? Can you site an example where you think freedom of speech is being abridged so we can better understand your concerns here?

    Freedom of speech does not mean you have the right to say whatever you want whenever you want without consequences. It means you have the right to say whatever you want whenever you want without consequences FROM THE GOVERNMENT.
    I am concerned about the societal/legal drift represented by the point of view expressed below. Aren't you?

    Circumventing the "True Threat" Standard in Campus Hate Speech Codes
    by Craig R. Smith
    California State University, Long Beach

    *Craig R. Smith is Professor of Communication Studies and Director of the Center for First Amendment Studies at California State University, Long Beach. See his newest book, The Four Freedoms of the First Amendment (Waveland Press, 2004).

    Abstract
    With a series of decisions striking down speech codes on campuses, the Supreme Court has made dealing with hate speech very difficult. Speech must present a "true threat" in order to be regulated. On the other hand, the Court has been more permissive when it comes to regulations regarding sexual harassment. This study proposes using the Court's model of sexual harassment for hate speech in work and learning environments to circumvent the "true threat" standard.
    The Center For First Amendment Studies CSULB | White Papers
    <a href=http://i.imgur.com/u68aMie.jpg target=_blank rel=nofollow>http://i.imgur.com/u68aMie.jpg</a>

  2. #22
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    Re: Hating Free Speech

    Quote Originally Posted by Tigerace117 View Post
    I don't trust Noam Chomsky's judgment at all given how wrong he was on Cambodia, so......
    You do not have to trust his judgement to agree with something he said.

  3. #23
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    Re: Hating Free Speech

    Quote Originally Posted by Angel View Post
    No, I'm saying ALL speech is okay, unless treasonous, libelous, slanderous, or physically harmful.
    Then why:

    A) Bother posting the thread
    B) say this: "the upshot of Progressive distortion and must be exposed for the political rubbish it is".

    Mostly B though. Why say the end if all you're trying to say is all speech is okay?
    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    From my reading of his post, it doesn't seem like that is anywhere near an accurate representation of his thought process. Actually, it looks incredibly dishonest.
    Then you must have missed the end of his post where he said, "the upshot of Progressive distortion and must be exposed for the political rubbish it is."

    I could be mistaken, but it looks like yet another conservative/Republican whining about either political correctness or protests which cause universities (or other entities) to cancel speeches by conservative speakers (or similar circumstances), as is fairly common around these parts.

    Again, I could be wrong, but there are just a couple of code words which are highly suggestive. Otherwise...what's the point in posting this thread and specifically that portion of it?

    The metric for determining if he thinks speech is "okay" or not seems to have zero to do with agreeing with the content of the speech, but rather the impact that speech has on others. Literally nothing in his post suggests his determination is centered around whether or not he agrees with what's being stated.
    Yeah...no...

    Unless you can somehow explain how the second part of his post doesn't exist in the way it appears it does, I'm going to pass on this explanation. So if you can explain how "Progressive distortion...exposed for the political rubbish it is" applies to his first statement without falling into the all too common refrain mentioned earlier, I'll be happy to amend my comment. But I suspect you will, as you clearly did in this post (since we're apparently speaking of posting dishonesty), once again ignore the second half of the post, which seems to provide not just the context but also the motivation to the thread.


    Oh, and before you reply, do so with the understanding that if students at a university protest at a university so strongly the university chooses to no longer allow a certain speaker to speak, then that IS the freedom of expression as well. But, somehow, I have the feeling that second form of expression by the students isn't being given quite the same passion of freedom by the OP. Again, I could be mistaken, but it comes back to those certain code words mentioned before which make me think I'm not.
    Last edited by Slyfox696; 05-25-17 at 03:19 PM.

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    Re: Hating Free Speech

    Quote Originally Posted by Slyfox696 View Post
    Then why:

    A) Bother posting the thread
    B) say this: "the upshot of Progressive distortion and must be exposed for the political rubbish it is".

    Mostly B though. Why say the end if all you're trying to say is all speech is okay?
    Did you not read post#21, just one post before your post on this page? B justifies A, as I see the matter.

    Quote Originally Posted by Angel View Post
    I am concerned about the societal/legal drift represented by the point of view expressed below. Aren't you?
    <a href=http://i.imgur.com/u68aMie.jpg target=_blank rel=nofollow>http://i.imgur.com/u68aMie.jpg</a>

  5. #25
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    Re: Hating Free Speech

    Quote Originally Posted by Angel View Post

    Save insofar as speech is treasonous or incites to physical harm, it ought to be protected and, beyond cases of slander or libel, ought not to be actionable at all.
    That's it.
    Interesting...Utah just passed a law making cyber bullying a crime...and free speech advocates think the bill is unconstitutional. But imo...the bill is protecting the right to privacy and doesn't infringe on free speech...and have yet to hear a good counter argument why it would.


    "....The regulation won unanimous approval in the Legislature and makes it a crime to post information online that can identify someone, including their name, photo and place of employment, in order to "intimidate, abuse, threaten, harass, frighten, or disrupt the electronic communications of another."

    It is part of a larger measure passed during the recently completed legislative session, meant to stamp out cybercrime.

    Similar laws in New York and North Carolina have been ruled unconstitutional in recent years, said UCLA law professor Eugene Volokh, who called Utah's measure a violation of the First Amendment..."

    https://www.usnews.com/news/best-sta...l?int=news-rec


    Laws like this get passed because a few bad apples abuse their rights and spoil it for the whole bunch...imo.



    All the rest we find ourselves mooting today under the rubric of freedom of speech is the upshot of Progressive distortion and must be exposed for the political rubbish it is.
    Rubbish ^^^
    Last edited by Moot; 05-25-17 at 04:47 PM.

  6. #26
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    Re: Hating Free Speech

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    They're definitely some interesting questions. But they're also a lot trickier than your analogy tries to depict (which, as someone who loves analogies, I understand is often the case).

    Mob boss says to hitman 1, "I would like to see Mr. Zulu dead."

    College kid says to his buddy while out drinking after they both flunked a test, "I would like to see Professor Zulu dead."
    That kind of kills your argument.... crap said while "not of full mind and body" is more than often not taken seriously. Also 2 college kids are not exactly figures of power or influence.. I mean who on earth would go and kill Professor Zulu for these 2 kids? No one I suspect. Now the mob boss is a figure of power and influence, as is the political commentator or politician or religious head. People listen and follow them.. and that is where the problem starts.

    I am not saying it is easy, but claiming "free speech for all" no matter what, is an universally bad idea and frankly not practised anywhere. For one, there should be consequences for spreading lies, especially if lies cause damage (financial or material).
    PeteEU

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    Re: Hating Free Speech

    Quote Originally Posted by TheGoverness View Post
    His quote is definitely right on the $, though. Freedom of speech means protecting speech that you (general you) don't necessarily like.
    True, there used to be an old motto way back when, "I may disagree with what you say, but I will defend your right to say it." There has been many times lately where I think that once great American motto has been tossed upon the trash heap of history.
    This Reform Party member thinks it is high past time that we start electing Americans to congress and the presidency who put America first and their political party further down the line. But for way too long we have been electing Republicans and Democrats who happen to be Americans instead of Americans who happen to be Republicans and Democrats.

  8. #28
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    Re: Hating Free Speech

    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    Interesting...Utah just passed a law making cyber bullying a crime...and free speech advocates think the bill is unconstitutional. But imo...the bill is protecting the right to privacy and doesn't infringe on free speech...and have yet to hear a good counter argument why it would.
    Utah gets this right, as I see it. And it is a privacy question, as you say. And a matter of bullying, which is a kind of assault, I suppose. I don't see it as a free speech issue at all.
    <a href=http://i.imgur.com/u68aMie.jpg target=_blank rel=nofollow>http://i.imgur.com/u68aMie.jpg</a>

  9. #29
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    Re: Hating Free Speech

    Quote Originally Posted by Angel View Post
    Did you not read post#21
    No, once someone begins replying directly to me, it's common I only read posts which directly respond to me.

    B justifies A, as I see the matter.
    I'm sorry, but you didn't answer the main question I asked you. Allow me to provide it once more:

    "Then why say this: "the upshot of Progressive distortion and must be exposed for the political rubbish it is"?

    Furthermore, what do harassment policies at a company have to do with any of this, as it is commonly known that "freedom of speech" is only a protected right in America as stated under the 1st Amendment, which deals only with the government? And if you're not talking about harassment policies, then to what societal/legal drift do you refer?

  10. #30
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    Re: Hating Free Speech

    Quote Originally Posted by Angel View Post
    Utah gets this right, as I see it. And it is a privacy question, as you say. And a matter of bullying, which is a kind of assault, I suppose. I don't see it as a free speech issue at all.
    Thats good, because from what I've seen...it's mostly the far-rightwing that is committing most of the cyber bullying.

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