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Thread: Hate speech

  1. #11
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    Re: Hate speech

    Quote Originally Posted by Serenity View Post
    The line for me is when hate speech crosses over into incitement to violence. I have a major issue with allowing that.

    He's not American but Anjem Choudary springs to mind here. I support his incarceration.
    Of course. We can't have someone preaching death to whites or blacks or Muslims or Christians or gays, finding a following and then sending them off on Manson like attacks on whatever chosen group his band of brainwashed followers are directed to eliminate.

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    Re: Hate speech

    Quote Originally Posted by Serenity View Post
    The line for me is when hate speech crosses over into incitement to violence. I have a major issue with allowing that.

    He's not American but Anjem Choudary springs to mind here. I support his incarceration.
    That may be the line for you, but it is not where Brandenburg set the line. The legal standard is not so simple--incitement to violence, per se, is not necessarily speech unprotected by the First Amendment.

    I have noticed that sites like this one often--and ironically--do not protect the freedom of speech very strongly.

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    Re: Hate speech

    Quote Originally Posted by Serenity View Post
    The line for me is when hate speech crosses over into incitement to violence. I have a major issue with allowing that.

    He's not American but Anjem Choudary springs to mind here. I support his incarceration.
    I agree with you there.
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  4. #14
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    Re: Hate speech

    Quote Originally Posted by calamity View Post
    Of course. We can't have someone preaching death to whites or blacks or Muslims or Christians or gays, finding a following and then sending them off on Manson like attacks on whatever chosen group his band of brainwashed followers are directed to eliminate.
    And yet at the time of the Choudary discussions, there were posters suggesting that freedom of speech pretty much trumps all.

    Edit to add: Just saw Matchlight's post. There's another example.
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    Re: Hate speech

    Quote Originally Posted by calamity View Post
    You can say what you want, but if you start yelling N-word this and N-word that while shooting black people, you're going to be charged with a hate crime. Same applies for pretty much any group you do that to, including whites.
    I don't think there should be such a thing as a "hate" crime... it's just crime... the motivations don't matter other than they are just evidence.

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    Re: Hate speech

    Quote Originally Posted by Serenity View Post
    And yet at the time of the Choudary discussions, there were posters suggesting that freedom of speech pretty much trumps all.

    Edit to add: Just saw Matchlight's post. There's another example.
    I'm not sure what you think my statements were another example OF. Choudary was living and speaking in England, and that means English law applied to him. I doubt the freedom of speech is as strongly protected there as it is here in the U.S. I suspect there is some speech that could not be legally punished here, and yet could be punished in England.

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    Re: Hate speech

    There is no such thing as "hate speech," and "hate crime" legislation is never just either, as increasing the penalties when you don't like the motive is literally criminalizing thought.

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    Re: Hate speech

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    That's because they don't. They don't think ignoring preferences is free speech, they don't think that being mean to someone is free speech, and they don't think that using slurs is free speech. All of those are free speech of course, but who you're talking about don't see it that way.
    Of course, those taking that position will usually make a distinction between those speaking in hate and tjose speaking from a position of truth, which is their's.

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    Re: Hate speech

    Quote Originally Posted by calamity View Post
    I disagree. State of mind is an aggravating factor when committing crimes.

    If someone kills their wife for a large insurance payout, it's usually punished more severely than if he put a bullet in her head when catching her in bed with a neighbor. Same applies to hate. If a person kills someone or beats them up due to ideological idealism, it's punished more severely than if they did it because they were just having a bad day.
    That's why we have already have different classes of murder, I see no need for an extra "hate crime" legislation because we already have a very tough top level murder law

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    Re: Hate speech

    Quote Originally Posted by Crovax View Post
    That's why we have already have different classes of murder, I see no need for an extra "hate crime" legislation because we already have a very tough top level murder law
    Not in my opinion. I can kill someone and get out in less than 10 years, if I play my cards right. That's not exactly "a very tough top level murder law."

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