• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

School dress code and free speech.

Then it can be clarified.
Yes that is what is needed since in this instance the code was nowhere near clear and that is the entire point which for some reason you are avoiding.

The school still has power to reasonably restrict the type of clothing the student body can wear.
I have not said anything to the contrary.
 
There is a thread in breaking news about an 8th grader suspended for wearing a t-shirt to school which was deemed as a violation to what can reasonably be considered a vague dress code. This is not about that, but rather in general about dress coded in schools, or more precisely in public schools.
There were arguments made that freedom of expression should trump dress codes. If that is so, should it be totally without restrictions or with some restrictions.
Let me just throw this out there: In NYC's Tine Square, there are "performers" who wear nothing but body paint and under First Amendment rules they are free do do so, although now NYC is trying to implement some regulation. So what would happen if someone showed up to school with such an expression?

Well, students in public schools have limited free speech rights (as well as limits on other constitutional rights). Presumably, a private university that doesn't have sufficient ties to nonetheless be deemed a state actor could also have its own rules notwithstanding the constitution.

Anyway, I think the direct answer to your question is: they'd be dragged to the principal's office and sent home.
 
Those that pay for the school write the rules. When the students start paying taxes or tuition they can push for whatever dress code (or lack thereof) they wish.
 
Dress codes and more specifically, school uniforms, are a great idea and should be happening in every school in the US.

I hope you are joking...:shock:
 
IMHO school uniforms are part of the problem with the US and how we raise kids.

Let them have some expression in how they dress. Maybe they wouldn't feel like they have to pierce their skins or get tattoos all over because "gosh we let them have a little freedom".

All we are doing is coping out in teaching these kids proper behavior.

"well what if the kid wears a shirt that says " I like *****" with a picture of a cat on it.

You know what? You do what people have done for eons... you teach the kid its inappropriate and why.

so then when the kid goes on his first job interview.. he doesn't wear that t shirt because he already has learned how society works.

instead of not giving the child any choice and thus no opportunity to LEARN appropriate dress and behavior.


We spend so much time AVOIDING teaching children right and wrong, and societal values... and then are surprised when they reach 18 that they don't have societal values.

so we don't keep score in pee wee league baseball.. because "we don't want them to focus on winning and losing"... and of course.. then the kids don't have an opportunity to win with grace or lose with grace. and then we are surprised that they act like a holes when suddenly the score does matter.
 
I hope you are joking...:shock:

Nope. I have vast experience with dress codes, uniforms and regular clothes (non-uniform).

Uniforms are the best by far.
 
IMHO school uniforms are part of the problem with the US and how we raise kids.

Let them have some expression in how they dress. Maybe they wouldn't feel like they have to pierce their skins or get tattoos all over because "gosh we let them have a little freedom".

All we are doing is coping out in teaching these kids proper behavior.

"well what if the kid wears a shirt that says " I like *****" with a picture of a cat on it.

You know what? You do what people have done for eons... you teach the kid its inappropriate and why.

so then when the kid goes on his first job interview.. he doesn't wear that t shirt because he already has learned how society works.

instead of not giving the child any choice and thus no opportunity to LEARN appropriate dress and behavior.


We spend so much time AVOIDING teaching children right and wrong, and societal values... and then are surprised when they reach 18 that they don't have societal values.

so we don't keep score in pee wee league baseball.. because "we don't want them to focus on winning and losing"... and of course.. then the kids don't have an opportunity to win with grace or lose with grace. and then we are surprised that they act like a holes when suddenly the score does matter.

This has to be one of the wierdest responsese to school uniforms that I have heard, I think.

...and all the same lessons can be taught when uniforms are the standard.
 
IMHO school uniforms are part of the problem with the US and how we raise kids.

Let them have some expression in how they dress. Maybe they wouldn't feel like they have to pierce their skins or get tattoos all over because "gosh we let them have a little freedom".

All we are doing is coping out in teaching these kids proper behavior.

"well what if the kid wears a shirt that says " I like *****" with a picture of a cat on it.

You know what? You do what people have done for eons... you teach the kid its inappropriate and why.

so then when the kid goes on his first job interview.. he doesn't wear that t shirt because he already has learned how society works.

instead of not giving the child any choice and thus no opportunity to LEARN appropriate dress and behavior.


We spend so much time AVOIDING teaching children right and wrong, and societal values... and then are surprised when they reach 18 that they don't have societal values.

so we don't keep score in pee wee league baseball.. because "we don't want them to focus on winning and losing"... and of course.. then the kids don't have an opportunity to win with grace or lose with grace. and then we are surprised that they act like a holes when suddenly the score does matter.

This has to be one of the wierdest responsese to school uniforms that I have heard, I think.

...and all the same lessons can be taught when uniforms are the standard.
 
Nope. I have vast experience with dress codes, uniforms and regular clothes (non-uniform).

Uniforms are the best by far.

I am sure you do.

I see what you think of American freedom on the thread about the right to bear arms.

56198852.jpg
 
This has to be one of the wierdest responsese to school uniforms that I have heard, I think.

...and all the same lessons can be taught when uniforms are the standard.

The fact you think so is what's so wrong.
 
I am sure you do.

I see what you think of American freedom on the thread about the right to bear arms.

View attachment 67203483



:lol: I am surprised you did't go with a Nazi picture and call me Hitler... :lol:

I can see that debating you is a waste of time...

The fact you think so is what's so wrong.

Great counter argument. As a parent and as a teacher I am confident that I know far more about this than you, since I deal with it daily.
 
IMHO school uniforms are part of the problem with the US and how we raise kids.

Let them have some expression in how they dress. Maybe they wouldn't feel like they have to pierce their skins or get tattoos all over because "gosh we let them have a little freedom".

All we are doing is coping out in teaching these kids proper behavior.

"well what if the kid wears a shirt that says " I like *****" with a picture of a cat on it.

You know what? You do what people have done for eons... you teach the kid its inappropriate and why.

so then when the kid goes on his first job interview.. he doesn't wear that t shirt because he already has learned how society works.

instead of not giving the child any choice and thus no opportunity to LEARN appropriate dress and behavior.


We spend so much time AVOIDING teaching children right and wrong, and societal values... and then are surprised when they reach 18 that they don't have societal values.

so we don't keep score in pee wee league baseball.. because "we don't want them to focus on winning and losing"... and of course.. then the kids don't have an opportunity to win with grace or lose with grace. and then we are surprised that they act like a holes when suddenly the score does matter.

Just a guess, off the top of your head, what percentage of school kids in America wear uniforms?
As a sidebar, because it's a non sequitur, which group would you guess performs better academically?
 
Why?

Having attended schools both with and without dress codes, more specifically, school uniforms I think school uniforms are stupid and failed to see any real benefit from having been forced to wear one.

They have tremendoustremendous 6merit in junior and senior high schools. Particulary with girls. Eliminates competition.
 
Uniforms are a blatant example of indoctrination of school kids.
 
:lol: I am surprised you did't go with a Nazi picture and call me Hitler... :lol:

I can see that debating you is a waste of time...



Great counter argument. As a parent and an teacher, I am confident that I know far more about this than you, since I deal with it daily.

I can see that debating you is a waste of time.

and its scary that you are an educator. As a parent of school age children its very concerning.

You mentioned hitler... you are right.. I almost did put a picture of the Hitler youth. I actually thought a picture of young Mao Children and "father Mao" would be more contemporary to the discussion.
I also could have put a picture of neo Nazi children.. or a picture of young children in the Klu Klux Clan.

Have you ever thought.. gee what do all these groups have in common? I'll give you a hint... its a uniform.

And why? As an educator have you ever THOUGHT about what the role of a uniform is... and why its used by such as Mao, and Hitler.. etc? Why it has such power and significance?

Tell me.. do you think its to promote individual thought, and thinking for yourself, you know.. the hallmarks of freedom?

Or is it to promote conformity, and "group think" and abdicating ones decisions to leadership? right or wrong?

The fact is its the latter.
 
Just a guess, off the top of your head, what percentage of school kids in America wear uniforms?
As a sidebar, because it's a non sequitur, which group would you guess performs better academically?

Don;t have to guess.

Nineteen percent of public school principals reported requiring uniforms in the 2009-2010 school year, up from 12 percent a decade earlier, according to TODAY

Which is why its concerning.
 
They have tremendoustremendous 6merit in junior and senior high schools. Particulary with girls. Eliminates competition.

honestly.. do you really believe it "eliminates competition"?

Who has the best nails, the best hair, the thinnest body, the biggest breasts, the hottest boyfriend, the most friends, the coolest tattoo, shops for the best clothes, has the best prom dress, is homecoming queen...

Do you REALLY think Khakis and a polo tee.. have "eliminated competition"?


We are sticking our heads in the sand people when it comes to our kids.
 
For clothing it does. And that itself is a HUGE problem.

No it doesn't. do you really think girls aren;t wearing different clothing to school events, out in public.. with their friends.. at parties.. out in the mall.

that girls aren't discussing who is wearing what because in school they wear khakis and a polo?

I was poor.. I wore a jeans and shirt like many other kids in my school I was poor/lower middle class.

Wearing the same style clothes as the rich kids. you don;t think they made fun of me for wearing Kmart brand jeans.. and kmart brand shirt..

When their jeans and shirt were from the GAP?

I guarantee you that girls are commenting on who is buying what khakis where.

In fact the competition is probably worse because if parents/teachers think the problem is "solved".. they are less likely to pay attention.
 
No it doesn't. do you really think girls aren;t wearing different clothing to school events, out in public.. with their friends.. at parties.. out in the mall.

Oh. I thought we were talking about school uniforms. Oh wait. We were.
 
Dress codes and more specifically, school uniforms, are a great idea and should be happening in every school in the US.

We may have gone too far in teaching kids that they are inherently special little snowflakes, but I wouldn't remedy that by going too far in the other direction and trying to teach them that they are fungible. I also never saw a single incident in the non-uniform schools I attended where somebody's clothing caused a negative impact on education or anything else.

I really don't understand the praise for school uniforms. What are they supposed to accomplish?



I'm betting that kids don't behave better simply because they are made to wear specific clothing. I'm betting that if they appear to behave better in uniform, it's because a school that requires uniform also has a bunch of other rules that are stricter than non-uniform schools, and it is those rules & consequences that produce the perceived effect.
 
You got proof of that? What kind of indoctrination?

Why would you ask for proof? You can see it with your own eyes. OK children, this is what you are going to look like as a student. Get used to the idea because we are going to make you look a certain way as an adult.

It's called conformity. It sucks!
 
Back
Top Bottom