French/Belgian Fish Soup

In 2009, me and the missus rented a car in Paris and drove across France into Germany and turned the car in at the rental office in Lucerne, Switzerland. We toured the Normandy beaches and surrounding country. There and again in Bastogne we has fish soup that was delicious. We have been trying to re-create something similar since. The soup had generous pieces of fish, shrimp, clam, oyster etc. The broth must have been machine whipped. It was a reddish, coppery color and there was no separation in the broth. What I mean by separation is that many home-made soups have globules of stuff that seperates; if you look across the top of the bowl, you can see various different reflections, sorta like when antifreeze is spilled on a wet surface and the light strikes it a certain way. The consistency of the desired broth is creamy instead of watery, but not real heavy.

Anybody do home-made fish soups and have a recipe?

Rexedgar said:

In 2009, me and the missus rented a car in Paris and drove across France into Germany and turned the car in at the rental office in Lucerne, Switzerland. We toured the Normandy beaches and surrounding country. There and again in Bastogne we has fish soup that was delicious. We have been trying to re-create something similar since. The soup had generous pieces of fish, shrimp, clam, oyster etc. The broth must have been machine whipped. It was a reddish, coppery color and there was no separation in the broth. What I mean by separation is that many home-made soups have globules of stuff that seperates; if you look across the top of the bowl, you can see various different reflections, sorta like when antifreeze is spilled on a wet surface and the light strikes it a certain way. The consistency of the desired broth is creamy instead of watery, but not real heavy.

Anybody do home-made fish soups and have a recipe?

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It could have been bouillabaise.

zyzygy said:

It could have been bouillabaise.

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Wasn’t listed on the menu as such. We have tried bouillabaisse and it has what I call broth separation. Was generically called “soupe de poisson.”

Rexedgar said:

Wasn’t listed on the menu as such. We have tried bouillabaisse and it has what I call broth separation. Was generically called “soupe de poisson.”

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Lutherf said:

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That one looks real close to the color and consistency; thanks!

Rexedgar said:

Anybody do home-made fish soups and have a recipe?

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It doesn't matter what type of soups you are making, the problem of lipid separation, those "globules" you mention, is the same.

There are three keys to keep in mind. Emulsification, no cooling, and very limited amounts of lipids if possible.

Emulsification is central to good soups, basically mixing two substances that don't normally mix, oil and water. Traditionally, rapid whisking for long periods of time produced the emulsified results. Today we use high end blenders for maximum results within shorter time periods. Homogenized milk is an emulsified product.

Cooling will separate the lipids from other liquids in emulsified products that were heated during or shortly after emulsification. I can give you the chemical processes, but they really are irrelevant to your question.

Limiting lipids reduces the need for emulsification.

Both the French and Belgians, among other cuisines, resolve the need for lipids by starting with a roux. A roux is basically a small amount of a lipid, like butter, with a starch, flour, and browning, often with spices and other flavorings. Like fighting a fire with fire, a small amount of a lipid does away for a larger amount of lipids, for flavor, texture and thickening of both sauces and soups.

Experiment. Start a small soup with a small amount of roux, add more liquid till you reach a consistency you prefer, then add other ingredients and more liquid as you desire. You will far encounter less separation of lipids from other liquids, and achieve that light creamy texture. I also add a bit of creme de tartar (a powder) to the roux for an extra creamy like texture. A 1/4 teaspoon goes a long way. Plenty of recipes for roux and how to use it on the net.

PS I also cheat by using small amounts of mashed root vegetables to provide a creamy texture for soups, squash, yams, potatoes, carrots and so on. Not enough so anyone would notice the taste of what I am using.

Good hunting and enjoy.

OldFatGuy said:

It doesn't matter what type of soups you are making, the problem of lipid separation, those "globules" you mention, is the same.

There are three keys to keep in mind. Emulsification, no cooling, and very limited amounts of lipids if possible.

Emulsification is central to good soups, basically mixing two substances that don't normally mix, oil and water. Traditionally, rapid whisking for long periods of time produced the emulsified results. Today we use high end blenders for maximum results within shorter time periods. Homogenized milk is an emulsified product.

Cooling will separate the lipids from other liquids in emulsified products that were heated during or shortly after emulsification. I can give you the chemical processes, but they really are irrelevant to your question.

Limiting lipids reduces the need for emulsification.

Both the French and Belgians, among other cuisines, resolve the need for lipids by starting with a roux. A roux is basically a small amount of a lipid, like butter, with a starch, flour, and browning, often with spices and other flavorings. Like fighting a fire with fire, a small amount of a lipid does away for a larger amount of lipids, for flavor, texture and thickening of both sauces and soups.

Experiment. Start a small soup with a small amount of roux, add more liquid till you reach a consistency you prefer, then add other ingredients and more liquid as you desire. You will far encounter less separation of lipids from other liquids, and achieve that light creamy texture. I also add a bit of creme de tartar (a powder) to the roux for an extra creamy like texture. A 1/4 teaspoon goes a long way. Plenty of recipes for roux and how to use it on the net.

PS I also cheat by using small amounts of mashed root vegetables to provide a creamy texture for soups, squash, yams, potatoes, carrots and so on. Not enough so anyone would notice the taste of what I am using.

Good hunting and enjoy.

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How dark would you make the roux?

zyzygy said:

How dark would you make the roux?

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That would depend upon two factors, the type of soup or sauce I'm making, and the types of spices and/or herbs I'm using. How much flavor do I want from the roux lipid, be it butter or olive oil, or like others sometimes use, duck fat.

I personally found, experimentation with the same or similar recipes brought me to where I eventually wanted to be, and that was my determinant. Some chef's, especially restaurant chef's look for constants of flavor, repetition because the menu so demands. The home chef, regardless of perceived quality, has more room for variations. We view the end results of say a bouillabaisse between different restaurants, different chefs, as better or worse than one another, when really it is only a difference from what we first expected in flavor and textures that appeals to us more. Neither is really better or worse, just different, or extremely foul because of other poor ingredients not shopped well. 10 day old fish doesn't make for aa good bouillabaisse no matter how a chef tries to hide the lack of freshness.

What is good for my taste, you may dislike and vice versa. Therefore all I can advise is experiment and please yourself. Plus on one day, a lighter roux with lighter spices may please your palate, another day, a darker roux and more intense spices, with an overlay of savory. If I sound evasive, it is because I am being evasive. You need to find your own path, and to learn which path will best meet your palate and mood. A richer fish may demand a darker roux for you, a whiter fish, less. One may demand spicy, the other savory, or vice versa again. Are you using sweet peppers or tomatoes to flavor your soup or sauce? What difference will that make? Back to the issue of variables and experimentation.

I stopped cooking to recipes a long time ago, now I cook around them, using different experiences to alter the menu, sometimes pleasingly, and sometimes it is necessary to go out to dinner after dinner.

I think it is all about exploration and having fun. Food is a necessity, but it should also be an adventure in the making and enjoying. Sometimes adventures crash in the dessert.