Craft Beer Seal !!!!

https://www.pastemagazine.com/artic...s-association-just-debuted-an-independen.html

In a move that speaks toward the craft beer industry’s mounting unease at the continued brewery acquisitions of Anheuser Busch-InBev and MillerCoors, the Denver-based Brewers Association, the craft beer industry’s trade group, today unveiled their creation of an “independent beer seal” to be used by craft breweries.

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What makes me a little apprehensive is this:

The free-to-use seal will be available for optional adoption by breweries, whether or not they are members of the Brewers Association.

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So what's to stop an InBev purchased brewery from using that seal? Why couldn't Wicked Weed (recently purchased by InBev) put that on their packaging?



For now at least, you may wish to look for this on your beer purchases:




assuming you're looking for actual "craft beer".

Kind of like "certified Organic"

WCH said:

Kind of like "certified Organic"

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Yep, laws in the USofA around what labels can say are pretty pathetic.

Dragonfly said:

https://www.pastemagazine.com/artic...s-association-just-debuted-an-independen.html



What makes me a little apprehensive is this:



So what's to stop an InBev purchased brewery from using that seal? Why couldn't Wicked Weed (recently purchased by InBev) put that on their packaging?



For now at least, you may wish to look for this on your beer purchases:

assuming you're looking for actual "craft beer".

Click to expand...

What's the difference? I mean, if you want to support smaller breweries, I get it, but having worked for AB-InBev, I can tell you the reason they buy these places is because they think they are doing a good job...they aren't going to buy something that's working well and change the taste profile so it starts to bomb, they want to be profitable. That bottle of "craft" beer is going to taste the same after as it did before...if it's merely a "this beer is going to taste different because it's made by a big company", you might be worried about nothing.

Again, understand wanting to support small breweries, that's a different thing, and the distribution system is definitely tailored to be in beneficial to the big guys, and I think that's a problem...but if you liked a beer before it was bought out, I don't think you need to lament that you'll never get that taste again. "Craft" brewing is a great marketing term, but making beer hasn't changed much over time...only the tank sizes and recipes have changed, but that's a decision that can be made to suit the market...if people are leaning towards a certain taste profile, then the market will adapt. I think that's the reason AB-InBev are buying up so many "craft" beer companies - they get that people are suddenly interested in a wide range of flavor profiles.

OlNate said:

What's the difference? I mean, if you want to support smaller breweries, I get it, but having worked for AB-InBev, I can tell you the reason they buy these places is because they think they are doing a good job...they aren't going to buy something that's working well and change the taste profile so it starts to bomb, they want to be profitable. That bottle of "craft" beer is going to taste the same after as it did before...if it's merely a "this beer is going to taste different because it's made by a big company", you might be worried about nothing.

Again, understand wanting to support small breweries, that's a different thing, and the distribution system is definitely tailored to be in beneficial to the big guys, and I think that's a problem...but if you liked a beer before it was bought out, I don't think you need to lament that you'll never get that taste again. "Craft" brewing is a great marketing term, but making beer hasn't changed much over time...only the tank sizes and recipes have changed, but that's a decision that can be made to suit the market...if people are leaning towards a certain taste profile, then the market will adapt. I think that's the reason AB-InBev are buying up so many "craft" beer companies - they get that people are suddenly interested in a wide range of flavor profiles.

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You make some very good points.

Time will tell.

OlNate said:

That bottle of "craft" beer is going to taste the same after as it did before

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I think that's one of the problems. The big corporations buy up these smaller breweries because they'll have something good...and then nothing changes. It becomes static, stagnate. One of the hallmarks of the craft breweries is their ability and desire to switch things up, to try new things, to go out on a limb and experiment. Look at Goose Island. They used to be fairly decent and innovated, and had come up with a few good beers. Now they've become rather bland. Their IPA is OK, but that's about it, nothing to write home about. Much better IPA's out there than that.

On some level, the Mega Corporate Buyout is a sign that the craft industry has grown and matured to such a level that the big companies think they can get some market share by buying up some of the good ones. It's a nice sign of validation for those of us who have been craft fans have known for decades. On the other hand, it can drive out some of they dynamics that make the craft scene so great. The innovation, the experimentation, the drive to make the best beer out there.

A lot of the big beer companies, long ago before they became American Piss Beer, didn't serve American Piss Beer. They had actual products that were more than just the min/max lowest common denominator. But they had started to win out, and buy up smaller breweries, and eventually they min/maxed and we were left with (for quite some time) the American Piss Beer. That's the real issue that comes with oligarchy and mega corp buyout. Eventually, it stifles the innovation and eventually everything will become min/maxed.

So what's the difference? Well first off, buying local is always better. Supporting a local microbrew keeps the money in the community, as it were, and helps out the community and local business. But also, it keeps things fresh, it keeps innovation going, it keeps some amount of pressure on the bigger mega-corporations so that the system doesn't immediately collapse to the lowest common denominator tripe. But I think there is some lamentation if one's favorite microbrew is bought out because it will trend towards stagnation at that point and all the quirkiness and progress will turn into just mass production and something will be lost in the end. You'll get Goose Island. Something that went from exciting to "meh".

Dragonfly said:

https://www.pastemagazine.com/artic...s-association-just-debuted-an-independen.html



What makes me a little apprehensive is this:



So what's to stop an InBev purchased brewery from using that seal? Why couldn't Wicked Weed (recently purchased by InBev) put that on their packaging?



For now at least, you may wish to look for this on your beer purchases:

assuming you're looking for actual "craft beer".

Click to expand...

This is truly a non issue, drink local wherever you find yourself, know your local brewers. if you are unsure, there is this thing you probably carry called a smart phone, look it up.


and don't buy Bourboun stout this year or ever.



as to your specific issue, the TM would prevent inbev from using it.

Ikari said:

I think that's one of the problems. The big corporations buy up these smaller breweries because they'll have something good...and then nothing changes. It becomes static, stagnate. One of the hallmarks of the craft breweries is their ability and desire to switch things up, to try new things, to go out on a limb and experiment. Look at Goose Island. They used to be fairly decent and innovated, and had come up with a few good beers. Now they've become rather bland. Their IPA is OK, but that's about it, nothing to write home about. Much better IPA's out there than that.

On some level, the Mega Corporate Buyout is a sign that the craft industry has grown and matured to such a level that the big companies think they can get some market share by buying up some of the good ones. It's a nice sign of validation for those of us who have been craft fans have known for decades. On the other hand, it can drive out some of they dynamics that make the craft scene so great. The innovation, the experimentation, the drive to make the best beer out there.

A lot of the big beer companies, long ago before they became American Piss Beer, didn't serve American Piss Beer. They had actual products that were more than just the min/max lowest common denominator. But they had started to win out, and buy up smaller breweries, and eventually they min/maxed and we were left with (for quite some time) the American Piss Beer. That's the real issue that comes with oligarchy and mega corp buyout. Eventually, it stifles the innovation and eventually everything will become min/maxed.

So what's the difference? Well first off, buying local is always better. Supporting a local microbrew keeps the money in the community, as it were, and helps out the community and local business. But also, it keeps things fresh, it keeps innovation going, it keeps some amount of pressure on the bigger mega-corporations so that the system doesn't immediately collapse to the lowest common denominator tripe. But I think there is some lamentation if one's favorite microbrew is bought out because it will trend towards stagnation at that point and all the quirkiness and progress will turn into just mass production and something will be lost in the end. You'll get Goose Island. Something that went from exciting to "meh".

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This.

Drink local, wherever you find yourself.

OlNate said:

What's the difference? I mean, if you want to support smaller breweries, I get it, but having worked for AB-InBev, I can tell you the reason they buy these places is because they think they are doing a good job...they aren't going to buy something that's working well and change the taste profile so it starts to bomb, they want to be profitable. That bottle of "craft" beer is going to taste the same after as it did before...if it's merely a "this beer is going to taste different because it's made by a big company", you might be worried about nothing.

Again, understand wanting to support small breweries, that's a different thing, and the distribution system is definitely tailored to be in beneficial to the big guys, and I think that's a problem...but if you liked a beer before it was bought out, I don't think you need to lament that you'll never get that taste again. "Craft" brewing is a great marketing term, but making beer hasn't changed much over time...only the tank sizes and recipes have changed, but that's a decision that can be made to suit the market...if people are leaning towards a certain taste profile, then the market will adapt. I think that's the reason AB-InBev are buying up so many "craft" beer companies - they get that people are suddenly interested in a wide range of flavor profiles.

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In-bev sucks, They pressure beer stores for shelf space, threaten stock and buy up distributors to make is difficuly for the locals to distro. They support lobbying groups that support laws making life harder for microbrew.

Big Beer vs. craft beer battle gets ugly - Business Insider


Then there was recently ibevs buying of a hop farm used by many craft brewers.


AB InBev Cuts Off South African Hops From Craft Brewers | Food & Wine


They are scumbags.

ReverendHellh0und said:

This.

Drink local, wherever you find yourself.

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Thankfully Colorado is one of the Craft Brew meccas, so there are plenty. Recently I've been frequenting Lost Highway Brewery. Really like the head brewer there, has a lot of good ideas. He also told be of Zwei Brewing, which unfortunately is up in Fort Collins but sounds pretty awesome.

OlNate said:

What's the difference? I mean, if you want to support smaller breweries, I get it, but having worked for AB-InBev, I can tell you the reason they buy these places is because they think they are doing a good job...they aren't going to buy something that's working well and change the taste profile so it starts to bomb, they want to be profitable. That bottle of "craft" beer is going to taste the same after as it did before...if it's merely a "this beer is going to taste different because it's made by a big company", you might be worried about nothing.

Again, understand wanting to support small breweries, that's a different thing, and the distribution system is definitely tailored to be in beneficial to the big guys, and I think that's a problem...but if you liked a beer before it was bought out, I don't think you need to lament that you'll never get that taste again. "Craft" brewing is a great marketing term, but making beer hasn't changed much over time...only the tank sizes and recipes have changed, but that's a decision that can be made to suit the market...if people are leaning towards a certain taste profile, then the market will adapt. I think that's the reason AB-InBev are buying up so many "craft" beer companies - they get that people are suddenly interested in a wide range of flavor profiles.

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Craft breweries are in part about food safety. The big guys put a lot of crap in there beer like formaldehyde. Craft breweries aren't poisoning people. CBS News New York buying craft breweries is just a lame attempt for the big guys to pretend that they brew actual beer.

Ikari said:

Thankfully Colorado is one of the Craft Brew meccas, so there are plenty. Recently I've been frequenting Lost Highway Brewery. Really like the head brewer there, has a lot of good ideas. He also told be of Zwei Brewing, which unfortunately is up in Fort Collins but sounds pretty awesome.

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Fortunately its a boom, wherever I travel, I can always find a great place.

Ikari said:

I think that's one of the problems. {SNIPO} Something that went from exciting to "meh".

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I agree with lots of what you're saying, but there might be a silver lining. Big breweries buying up craft brewers gives weight to the notion that there is money in coming up with good craft beers. If one can start a good craft beer, develop it, do the local testing, all of that, then they sell the business for a big infusion of cash, rinse and repeat. There's no reason why they have to stop innovating, in fact they get to do so with more development money at their disposal.

You will still have your little guys doing small batches for specific tastes, but if you think about it, the beer industry could become like the wine industry. I also used to work for Constellation Brands, who is the biggest wine distributor in the world. It's a lot more difficult to tell which wines are under that massive umbrella, because they have so many, with quality going from bargain right to the very top. There's no reason that model can't be used with beer.

As for the Goose Island example...there might be a couple things at play. For starters, I can tell you that brew masters at AB-InBev are next level, in terms of being able to determine consistency. That's not just a challenge when you're acquiring a new beer, that's a challenge as you go from batch to batch of the same beer you've been making forever. Consistency of flavor is one of the most important things in beer (and wine, for the big commercial brands) production, because they want to make sure that when you've landed on a beer you like, it doesn't change, and they continue to sell it to you. So, I'm not sure that Goose Island tastes any different now than it did before...though it might seem like it:

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2017/08/170814092949.htm

I was there when Goose Island was being brought in, and I was so annoyed that they weren't going to keep it a secret, because I figured many folks would say "Hmm...the same people who make Bud make this, so now it doesn't taste as good". Things like that can change perception, and perception changes flavor sometimes.

Anyway...I think there will always be a local beer market, even if some of those beers are bought up and made more nationally or internationally available. But I don't think that a big beer company buying a craft beer you like necessarily means you won't like it anymore. More power to the little guys if they can get an advantage through little guy branding, but just because it says "craft", it doesn't mean it will be good. Me, I like good beer, regardless to where it comes from. My main go to is Labatt 50, which has been mass produced here for decades, and while I really enjoy craft beers, I've also tasted some that couldn't taste much better than month old skunk musk. (I mean, seriously, guys, even with hops there can be too much of a good thing...lolz).

katzgar said:

Craft breweries are in part about food safety. The big guys put a lot of crap in there beer like formaldehyde. Craft breweries aren't poisoning people. CBS News New York buying craft breweries is just a lame attempt for the big guys to pretend that they brew actual beer.

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Good point on the food safety...but again, recipes stay the same, if you don't want to drink Bud, don't drink Bud. These companies do not buy a successful brand only to destroy it by changing the recipe.

OlNate said:

Good point on the food safety...but again, recipes stay the same, if you don't want to drink Bud, don't drink Bud. These companies do not buy a successful brand only to destroy it by changing the recipe.

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Trust me when I tell you I don't drink Clydesdale piss.

The thing about beer is at the end of the day it's really pretty simple you got your grain you got your water you got your yeast and then any other frou-frou stuff you want to Spruce it up with like hops or raspberries or whatever. The FDA allows a lot of additives in the beer to give it a longer shelf life and to give it other features. Craft breweries are pretty much local and based on consuming relatively quickly and not using all those additives the big breweries use

OlNate said:

I agree with lots of what you're saying, but there might be a silver lining. ...

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Craft brewing has been making money for quite some time. The real reason that the Mega-Corp is trying to bully their way in is that the American Piss Beer market was at saturation and stagnate, but the craft brew market was growing. I think there are likely some looking for the payout, but a lot of the brewmasters I have come to know and their little breweries, they want to make money of course but it's not just that. For them, brewing is an art and they are continually honing their abilities and trying new things. Bought out brands just go into mass production mode, things are min/maxed. Sure, there is an effort to keep the taste close to the original, and certainly they are looking to make it consistent batch to batch (so they can move production to various factories), but that's what it ends up being.

Goose Island, for example, isn't innovative anymore. Their IPA is still very much like it used to be, but there's nothing really new or exciting about it (also, they aren't able to go to the Great American Beer Festival this year, as the Brewers Association is limiting how many Big Beer companies can come along). They've fallen flat, and in the world of craft, you innovate or die. That's one of the issues with the Mega-Corp buyouts...the breweries stop innovating.

And as Rev pointed out. These Mega-Corps are not good people. They are underhanded, sneaky, spoiled rich kids looking to bully their way into a market they have neither heart nor soul for and are willing to take the most dastardly of deeds to try to hurt the craft industry while stuffing their pockets.

Not all Mega-Corp beer is bad. Goose Island's IPA isn't a bad beer, it's just the same as it's always been and become boring. Blue Moon (I believe they are owned by Molson-Coors) is a decent example of a Belgium Wit, and for American Piss Beer, I really like Coors Banquet. But we've already seen once what happens when the Mega-Corp wins out. The beer scene in America was **** for the longest of times, it took the Craft Beer Revolution to really restart America's love and understanding of actual beer.

The Mega-Corps are a sign that the craft industry has grown so much as to be profitable on a level they can recognize. But their involvement isn't necessarily a good thing. Buy local, you'll get so much more from your dollar than throwing it at foreign corporations.

https://www.takecraftback.com/#



:lamo

katzgar said:

Trust me when I tell you I don't drink Clydesdale piss.

The thing about beer is at the end of the day it's really pretty simple you got your grain you got your water you got your yeast and then any other frou-frou stuff you want to Spruce it up with like hops or raspberries or whatever. The FDA allows a lot of additives in the beer to give it a longer shelf life and to give it other features. Craft breweries are pretty much local and based on consuming relatively quickly and not using all those additives the big breweries use

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haha...I don't disagree with you, even though it seems I'm arguing...I just remember what the business was like. Most of the time those big brands are producing just in time, which means that if you're buying it from a busy retailer, it's likely fresh. I remember enough long weekends where we were freaking because we were out of stock on something on the Monday, and keeping fingers crossed that production would go ok through the week so we could make our numbers on the long weekend. No big company wants to pay a ton of money to warehouse their beer, they're not making a year's worth of sales in one production run, they are working to a forecast of what they think they will sell. We would get in trouble if we had too much beer waiting to ship.

That said, I know there was sketch...but it's even sketch. For example, did you know there is an acceptable level of glass inclusions, as regulated by the government, in a bottle of beer? It's small, but it there - you are legally allowed to have a small percentage of glass inclusions in your beer. Crazy, right? But that's the same for everyone, big guy or craft producer.

Ikari said:

Craft brewing has been making money for quite some time. The real reason that the Mega-Corp is trying to bully their way in is that the American Piss Beer market was at saturation and stagnate, but the craft brew market was growing. I think there are likely some looking for the payout, but a lot of the brewmasters I have come to know and their little breweries, they want to make money of course but it's not just that. For them, brewing is an art and they are continually honing their abilities and trying new things. Bought out brands just go into mass production mode, things are min/maxed. Sure, there is an effort to keep the taste close to the original, and certainly they are looking to make it consistent batch to batch (so they can move production to various factories), but that's what it ends up being.

Goose Island, for example, isn't innovative anymore. Their IPA is still very much like it used to be, but there's nothing really new or exciting about it (also, they aren't able to go to the Great American Beer Festival this year, as the Brewers Association is limiting how many Big Beer companies can come along). They've fallen flat, and in the world of craft, you innovate or die. That's one of the issues with the Mega-Corp buyouts...the breweries stop innovating.

And as Rev pointed out. These Mega-Corps are not good people. They are underhanded, sneaky, spoiled rich kids looking to bully their way into a market they have neither heart nor soul for and are willing to take the most dastardly of deeds to try to hurt the craft industry while stuffing their pockets.

Not all Mega-Corp beer is bad. Goose Island's IPA isn't a bad beer, it's just the same as it's always been and become boring. Blue Moon (I believe they are owned by Molson-Coors) is a decent example of a Belgium Wit, and for American Piss Beer, I really like Coors Banquet. But we've already seen once what happens when the Mega-Corp wins out. The beer scene in America was **** for the longest of times, it took the Craft Beer Revolution to really restart America's love and understanding of actual beer.

The Mega-Corps are a sign that the craft industry has grown so much as to be profitable on a level they can recognize. But their involvement isn't necessarily a good thing. Buy local, you'll get so much more from your dollar than throwing it at foreign corporations.

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1. Inbev holds local beer stores hostage, will reduce allocations of beer if you don't display a certain percentage of thier fake craft beers among real craft beers.

2. will hold distro for Goose bourbon stout now to those who sell most bud light and other swill.

3. bought south african hop farms used by a ton of craft brewers, stopped selling to craft brewers.

4. lobbies against laws making it easier and cheaper for craft breweries to start up.

5. lobbies for distribution licensing requirments then attempts to but all distro licenses (NJ).

6. offers retailers reimbursments if it sells 98% inbev

7. offers independent distros up to 200k for only distroing it's beer (remember licensing above)?

8. creates fake craft beer brands to compete with real craft.


andon and on and on.

Ikari said:

Thankfully Colorado is one of the Craft Brew meccas, so there are plenty. Recently I've been frequenting Lost Highway Brewery. Really like the head brewer there, has a lot of good ideas. He also told be of Zwei Brewing, which unfortunately is up in Fort Collins but sounds pretty awesome.

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Flying Dog (my fav) left CO, so that is a pretty serious indictment.

OlNate said:

haha...I don't disagree with you, even though it seems I'm arguing...I just remember what the business was like. Most of the time those big brands are producing just in time, which means that if you're buying it from a busy retailer, it's likely fresh. I remember enough long weekends where we were freaking because we were out of stock on something on the Monday, and keeping fingers crossed that production would go ok through the week so we could make our numbers on the long weekend. No big company wants to pay a ton of money to warehouse their beer, they're not making a year's worth of sales in one production run, they are working to a forecast of what they think they will sell. We would get in trouble if we had too much beer waiting to ship.

That said, I know there was sketch...but it's even sketch. For example, did you know there is an acceptable level of glass inclusions, as regulated by the government, in a bottle of beer? It's small, but it there - you are legally allowed to have a small percentage of glass inclusions in your beer. Crazy, right? But that's the same for everyone, big guy or craft producer.

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Yes, I was aware of the glass inclusion allowance. The same shelf life chemicals and foreign matter inclusions apply to food also. The US is a huge country to distribute over and a fair amount of shelf life is eaten up in the distribution process. There has been a reaction to the crap included not only in beer but also in food with the eat local movement. The problem is eating local in January in Bemidji, MN is not going to happen. This is probably the farming of the future. https://gizmodo.com/this-is-the-future-14-high-tech-farms-where-veggies-gr-513129450

Ikari said:

These Mega-Corps are not good people.

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Nah, you're right... I've seen sketch, and shady dealings...and they are one of the biggest lobbyists, next to the tobacco and firearm lobbies, of course...hehe... But unfortunately that's most of the stuff we buy, and has way more to do with government regulation, or lack thereof, than anything involving the quality or taste of the beer.

Like anything else, I guess it's a mixed bag, and your priorities will dictate which side you land on. For me personally, I want beer to be politicized as little as possible...lol...I just want to drink the beer I like. I think the innovation you want will still happen, because big beer companies are rewarding innovators with big buy outs that will fund their next project, and the consistency brought by the big guys on successful brands will mean that if you liked a beer a couple years ago, and want to revisit it, it should still be roughly the same. Shady business practices are a legit problem, but that's a conversation to have pretty much right across the board, not just with the beer industry.

In the meantime, it is encouraging that the big guys are acknowledging that we like more than just piss beer, even if it is driven by their desire to extract more profits.

PoS said:

Flying Dog (my fav) left CO, so that is a pretty serious indictment.

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Yeah, they started in CO, but ended up on the East Coast. It's OK though, I think Flying Dog is still excellent. But at least they're still independent. One of my favorite breweries, Lagunitas, sold out to Heineken.

OlNate said:

Nah, you're right... I've seen sketch, and shady dealings...and they are one of the biggest lobbyists, next to the tobacco and firearm lobbies, of course...hehe... But unfortunately that's most of the stuff we buy, and has way more to do with government regulation, or lack thereof, than anything involving the quality or taste of the beer.

Like anything else, I guess it's a mixed bag, and your priorities will dictate which side you land on. For me personally, I want beer to be politicized as little as possible...lol...I just want to drink the beer I like. I think the innovation you want will still happen, because big beer companies are rewarding innovators with big buy outs that will fund their next project, and the consistency brought by the big guys on successful brands will mean that if you liked a beer a couple years ago, and want to revisit it, it should still be roughly the same. Shady business practices are a legit problem, but that's a conversation to have pretty much right across the board, not just with the beer industry.

In the meantime, it is encouraging that the big guys are acknowledging that we like more than just piss beer, even if it is driven by their desire to extract more profits.

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Actually you are wrong.


When a craft brew meets a certain market projection for them, they buy it. they then stagnate the brand and stifle it's creativity.


Look at Goose Island, even though John hall promised he'd retain enough ownership to maintain it's craft beer independence and creativity have not released anything noteworthy since the acquisition. none of the acquired brands have continued to innovate.

Ikari said:

Yeah, they started in CO, but ended up on the East Coast. It's OK though, I think Flying Dog is still excellent. But at least they're still independent. One of my favorite breweries, Lagunitas, sold out to Heineken.

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yup. they did. Not a fan of flying dog, but yeah, still independent.