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An Argument: Killing Animals For Meat is IMMORAL

Hawkeye10

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...(T)he act of animal slaughter is essentially cruel: no living thing wants anything but life, on pretty much any terms it can get, and to execute inarticulate and helpless animals for our pleasure because they can't speak, organize or struggle is finally as cruel as executing babies would be because they cant speak, or struggle. That we enjoy eating them is neither here nor there; we might enjoy eating babies or chimps if we tried them, too. The attempt to justify murder by insisting that the soon to be dead dont know that they will die, or that they die without pain, is no better, the argument goes, and finally no different in moral kind, than the attempt by the SS to anesthetize or justify their own atrocities by insisting that they were being so kind to the jews by telling them that they were going to the showers...
The Table Comes First Adam Gopnik pg 144

OK, I have sorta heard this argument before but not stated so well. I dont agree on the grounds that other species are not humans and we have as our first responsibility our own best interests, and that species kill eat other species all the time, why should we consider this a problem? Eating our own babies is a whole nother thing entirely, that is not relevant here, as this is about eating other species. This also invalidates the catchy emotionally charged NAZI argument, though we do have to not that I have not ever heard that the NAZI's claimed that this was the reason they did the showers, my information is that they did it to make the job easier, those who dont know that they are going to die are easier to manage which is why they did it and I never heard them claim otherwise so this needs to be documented.

I am interested if anyone is convinced by the argument that Gopnik lays out, or can expand upon it.

Note: He does not claim that he believes it, he claims to be restating the argument that others have given him.

tyvm
 
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The Table Comes First Adam Gopnik pg 144

OK, I have sorta heard this argument before but not stated so well. I dont agree on the grounds that other species are not humans and we have as our first responsibility our own best interests, and that species kill eat other species all the time, why should we consider this a problem? Eating our own babies is a whole nother thing entirely, that is not relevant here, as this is about eating other species. This also invalidates the catchy emotionally charged NAZI argument, though we do have to not that I have not ever heard that the NAZI's claimed that this was the reason they did the showers, my information is that they did it to make the job easier, those who dont know that they are going to die are easier to manage which is why they did it and I never heard them claim otherwise so this needs to be documented.

I am interested if anyone is convinced by the argument that Gopnik lays out, or can expand upon it.

Note: He does not claim that he believes it, he claims to be restating the argument that others have given him.

tyvm

In a relativistic culture it is somewhat unconvincing to argue morals.
 
In a relativistic culture it is somewhat unconvincing to argue morals.

Well that plus the fact that we are in a new Post Truth Dark Age....where "The Ends Justify the Means" has ruled for ages, to the point we now consider river demons in New Zealand equal to humans with human rights, but I digress....

Thank you for your participation, you seem like a pretty bright guy, which makes you being here all the better.

:2wave:
 
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Well that plus the fact that we are in a new Post Truth Dark Age....where "The Ends Justify the Means" has ruled for ages, to the point we now consider river demons in New Zealand equal to humans with human rights, but I digress....

Thank you for your participation, you seem like a pretty bright guy, which makes you being here all the better.

:2wave:

;) :2wave:
 
Personally I think dead animals are delicious. Nothing like a good well seasoned beef filet mignon cooked medium rare.
 
Personally I think dead animals are delicious. Nothing like a good well seasoned beef filet mignon cooked medium rare.

If the Lord didn't want man to eat animals, he would not have made them out of MEAT!!
 
I'll quote from the Simpsons: "If a cow had a chance, it would eat you too."
 
OK I'm immoral, pass the bacon
 
I guess I'll have to reconcile myself to a life of sin, then.
 
I agree eating meat is immoral. We should slaughter them and leave them where they lay like we did to humans in the Civil War.
 
The Table Comes First Adam Gopnik pg 144

OK, I have sorta heard this argument before but not stated so well. I dont agree on the grounds that other species are not humans and we have as our first responsibility our own best interests, and that species kill eat other species all the time, why should we consider this a problem? Eating our own babies is a whole nother thing entirely, that is not relevant here, as this is about eating other species. This also invalidates the catchy emotionally charged NAZI argument, though we do have to not that I have not ever heard that the NAZI's claimed that this was the reason they did the showers, my information is that they did it to make the job easier, those who dont know that they are going to die are easier to manage which is why they did it and I never heard them claim otherwise so this needs to be documented.

I am interested if anyone is convinced by the argument that Gopnik lays out, or can expand upon it.

Note: He does not claim that he believes it, he claims to be restating the argument that others have given him.

tyvm

I'd say morality doesn't come into it. We kill and eat animals because we can. If a human is immoral for killing an animal, a snake is immoral for eating a mouse. Is a frog immoral for eating a cricket? Morality isn't involved, the frog isn't morally justified in eating the cricket. It can so it does. Same with humans and cattle. We can so we do. We don't eat our children because we don't want to. They have more value not being eaten same with chimps and dogs.

Refering to slaughter as murder is hyperbolic appeal to emotion that vegans and the like tend to use, and it's incorrect. Murder is the unlawful killing another human needlessly or without cause.

If an animal is bred and raised for the sole purpose of eating it's flesh, that isn't needless killing, the rancher needed to kill it to get the return on his investment birthing it, raising it, keeping it healthy and feeding it. The rancher had to sell the meat to feed his family, keep a home and pay his taxes.

Further if it wasn't for the demand of its meat the animal wouldn't even exist. It existed for the sole purpose of being killed and eaten.

So slaughtering an animal isn't needless or without cause.

There is lawful slaying of animals. So long as regulations are adhered to, slaugter is perfectly legal.

If however I killed my naighbors dog because I don't like my naighbor, that would be needless and unlawful. That could be called murder of we forget the human aspect of it.

So in short, not in the least. Gopnik's argument exists on the supposition that his idea of morality is the objective form of it. I simply don't share it. It doesn't mean it's wrong. It's just another subjective position on morality. I don't object to birth control, thus I don't share catholic morality. I eat shellfish thus I don't share jewish morality. I don't believe Joseph smith is a prophet, thus I don't share Mormon morality.
 
In a relativistic culture it is somewhat unconvincing to argue morals.

The culture isn't relativistic just because morality is subjective. If morality was objective the vegans would be right. You can't justify killing something to eat it based on the fact that it isn't you or your species.
 
I'd say morality doesn't come into it. We kill and eat animals because we can. If a human is immoral for killing an animal, a snake is immoral for eating a mouse. Is a frog immoral for eating a cricket? Morality isn't involved, the frog isn't morally justified in eating the cricket. It can so it does. Same with humans and cattle. We can so we do. We don't eat our children because we don't want to. They have more value not being eaten same with chimps and dogs.

Refering to slaughter as murder is hyperbolic appeal to emotion that vegans and the like tend to use, and it's incorrect. Murder is the unlawful killing another human needlessly or without cause.

If an animal is bred and raised for the sole purpose of eating it's flesh, that isn't needless killing, the rancher needed to kill it to get the return on his investment birthing it, raising it, keeping it healthy and feeding it. The rancher had to sell the meat to feed his family, keep a home and pay his taxes.

Further if it wasn't for the demand of its meat the animal wouldn't even exist. It existed for the sole purpose of being killed and eaten.

So slaughtering an animal isn't needless or without cause.

There is lawful slaying of animals. So long as regulations are adhered to, slaugter is perfectly legal.

If however I killed my naighbors dog because I don't like my naighbor, that would be needless and unlawful. That could be called murder of we forget the human aspect of it.

So in short, not in the least. Gopnik's argument exists on the supposition that his idea of morality is the objective form of it. I simply don't share it. It doesn't mean it's wrong. It's just another subjective position on morality. I don't object to birth control, thus I don't share catholic morality. I eat shellfish thus I don't share jewish morality. I don't believe Joseph smith is a prophet, thus I don't share Mormon morality.

But when These People feel compelled to use everything including shame and violence to get their way mandated by law I find your docility troubling.
 
But when These People feel compelled to use everything including shame and violence to get their way mandated by law I find your docility troubling.

I'm as worried about veganism getting mandated by law as I am about an invasion from Mars. It's because of their extremism that I'm not worried.
 
I'm as worried about veganism getting mandated by law as I am about an invasion from Mars. It's because of their extremism that I'm not worried.

How bout massively driving up the costs hoping you will eat something else for the alleged reason "ethical treatment of animals"....mandated by law?
 
meat_is_murder_by_doornik1142-d4cncy0.jpg


But seriously, if we stopped eating meat, many of the animals we eat would go extinct.

Does anyone really think think a cow would make it in the wild?
 
I agree eating meat is immoral. We should slaughter them and leave them where they lay like we did to humans in the Civil War.

No no no, you've got it backwards. Wasting meat is immoral, we should have eaten humans we slaughtered in the Civil War instead of leaving them to rot.
 
If killing animals for our pleasure is immoral, then killing animals to ensure an adequate supply of vegetables to eat is still immoral.
 
The culture isn't relativistic just because morality is subjective. If morality was objective the vegans would be right. You can't justify killing something to eat it based on the fact that it isn't you or your species.

Subjective too? Then you have even less ground to stand on. ;)
 
No no no, you've got it backwards. Wasting meat is immoral, we should have eaten humans we slaughtered in the Civil War instead of leaving them to rot.

Waste all across the fields!
 
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