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Is it "smug" to pronounce "chorizo," "croissant" and "latte" correctly?

nota bene

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Re: Is it "smug" to pronounce "chorizo," "croissant" and "latte" correctly?

The Daily Mail reports on a Mumsnet argument on whether pronouncing foreign foods' names correctly is "pretentious." I don't think so. Is "latte" really that hard? Woman provokes Mumsnet debate over chorizo pronunciation | Daily Mail Online

But it's "wok-a-mole-eh" and "hala-pain-yo." :mrgreen:

Eh, I don't think so. But I think the Anglicized versions are equally correct in the English language. I suspect this is a regional or -- and perhaps why this is why this kicked off, given our correct cultural divides -- a socioeconomic difference.

It is probably also a bigger deal to Brits than it would be to Americans. Especially when it comes to French words in England, pronouncing it as the French would has always been a rather upper class thing, and the roots of that go all the way back to the Norman occupation a millenia ago. The English do know how to hold a grudge!
 
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Re: Is it "smug" to pronounce "chorizo," "croissant" and "latte" correctly?

It's only smug if you do it with the accent.
 
Re: Is it "smug" to pronounce "chorizo," "croissant" and "latte" correctly?

Eh, I don't think so. But I think the Anglicized versions are equally correct in the English language. I suspect this is a regional or -- and perhaps why this is why this kicked off, given our correct cultural divides -- a socioeconomic difference. Especially when it comes to French words in England, that's always been a rather upper class thing, and the roots of that go all the way back to the Norman invasion a millenia ago. The English do know how to hold a grudge!

Yes. I offer "French letters" as an example.

Learning menu French matters--I mean, you don't want to order the soup du jour of the day.
 
Re: Is it "smug" to pronounce "chorizo," "croissant" and "latte" correctly?

I insist on pronouncing words as Zapp Brannigan does
 
Re: Is it "smug" to pronounce "chorizo," "croissant" and "latte" correctly?

Yes. I offer "French letters" as an example.

Learning menu French matters--I mean, you don't want to order the soup du jour of the day.

Eh, why not? So people won't think you weren't wealthy enough to have mandatory French lessons as a child? ;) Again, those Norman French, conquering class roots showing through, in our hierarchy of what we consider "the best" way of speaking English.

All grammatically sensible language is equally correct. Pronouncing a word as the phonetic rules of your language would dictate isn't wrong. I mean, do you call it Por-tu-GAUL? No. It's PORCH-ah-gull. Because that's how English dictates it would be said. Is it wrong when the Portuguese call it En-GLAY-see-os? No. That's how Portuguese dictates it should be said when they're speaking Portuguese.

Well, what makes it ok to pronounce Portuguese words in an Anglicized fashion, but not French ones?
 
Re: Is it "smug" to pronounce "chorizo," "croissant" and "latte" correctly?

I generally but not always dislike people who do this.
 
Re: Is it "smug" to pronounce "chorizo," "croissant" and "latte" correctly?

Probably not as much as the debate​ itself.
 
Re: Is it "smug" to pronounce "chorizo," "croissant" and "latte" correctly?

Eh, why not? So people won't think you weren't wealthy enough to have mandatory French lessons as a child? ;) Again, those Norman French, conquering class roots showing through, in our hierarchy of what we consider "the best" way of speaking English.

All grammatically sensible language is equally correct. Pronouncing a word as the phonetic rules of your language would dictate isn't wrong. I mean, do you call it Por-tu-GAUL? No. It's PORCH-ah-gull. Because that's how English dictates it would be said. Is it wrong when the Portuguese call it En-GLAY-see-os? No. That's how Portuguese dictates it should be said when they're speaking Portuguese.

Well, what makes it ok to pronounce Portuguese words in an Anglicized fashion, but not French ones?

One doesn't need French lessons as a child to pronounce menu items correctly.
 
Re: Is it "smug" to pronounce "chorizo," "croissant" and "latte" correctly?

The Daily Mail reports on a Mumsnet argument on whether pronouncing foreign foods' names correctly is "pretentious." I don't think so. Is "latte" really that hard? Woman provokes Mumsnet debate over chorizo pronunciation | Daily Mail Online

But it's "wok-a-mole-eh" and "hala-pain-yo." :mrgreen:

I'm saying "yes" but mostly because my wife says croissant "correctly" as she's a French major and I literally just told her about this and that I was going to say "yes". She was not shocked by this statement.
 
Re: Is it "smug" to pronounce "chorizo," "croissant" and "latte" correctly?

One doesn't need French lessons as a child to pronounce menu items correctly.

Why would an English-speaking child naturally pronounce something with the phonetic rules of some other language? How would they even know those rules, if they hadn't been taught? There are sounds in French that don't exist in English and that native English-speakers can't even easily say, unless they've learned.

So, yeah, they do. Or at least lessons on those words they're expected to say using French phonetic rules. No English-speaking child would ever naturally intuit that.

So yes, this is very much a question of being taught, and generally, the children who get taught are upper class. See the point here?

Again, why is it ok to pronounce Portuguese words in an Anglicized way, but not French ones?
 
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Re: Is it "smug" to pronounce "chorizo," "croissant" and "latte" correctly?

Its bothersome to me that Brits pronounce tomato as to-mah-to, when it should be pronounced properly as to-may-to.
 
Re: Is it "smug" to pronounce "chorizo," "croissant" and "latte" correctly?

I think we should all have to talk like Phil Hartmann...

 
Re: Is it "smug" to pronounce "chorizo," "croissant" and "latte" correctly?

Absofruitly.
 
Re: Is it "smug" to pronounce "chorizo," "croissant" and "latte" correctly?

I hope not. I grew up in Texas and lived in Mexico for two years. I would have to make a conscious effort to not pronounce the Spanish words correctly.

And I thought there was only one way to pronounce latte so now I have no idea if I am doing it right or not.
 
Re: Is it "smug" to pronounce "chorizo," "croissant" and "latte" correctly?

I think the main question here is how to pronounce the word “newspaper” with sufficient sarcasm, scorn and contempt. I fear it’s not physically possible. :cool:
 
Re: Is it "smug" to pronounce "chorizo," "croissant" and "latte" correctly?

Its bothersome to me that Brits pronounce tomato as to-mah-to, when it should be pronounced properly as to-may-to.

I can handle that. What I can't handle is how they pronounce zero. It's zeee-row. Not that hard. Not zed.
 
Re: Is it "smug" to pronounce "chorizo," "croissant" and "latte" correctly?

One doesn't need French lessons as a child to pronounce menu items correctly.

"I'll have the number 4 lunch special" ;)
 
Re: Is it "smug" to pronounce "chorizo," "croissant" and "latte" correctly?

One doesn't need French lessons as a child to pronounce menu items correctly.

All you need to do is inadvertently order horse twice. You'll soon learn how to read and pronounce French food. French menus can be dangerous.
 
Re: Is it "smug" to pronounce "chorizo," "croissant" and "latte" correctly?

Its only insufferable if you attempt to correct others.
 
Re: Is it "smug" to pronounce "chorizo," "croissant" and "latte" correctly?

Eh, why not? So people won't think you weren't wealthy enough to have mandatory French lessons as a child? ;) Again, those Norman French, conquering class roots showing through, in our hierarchy of what we consider "the best" way of speaking English.

All grammatically sensible language is equally correct. Pronouncing a word as the phonetic rules of your language would dictate isn't wrong. I mean, do you call it Por-tu-GAUL? No. It's PORCH-ah-gull. Because that's how English dictates it would be said. Is it wrong when the Portuguese call it En-GLAY-see-os? No. That's how Portuguese dictates it should be said when they're speaking Portuguese.

Well, what makes it ok to pronounce Portuguese words in an Anglicized fashion, but not French ones?

But croissant has no Anglicised pronounciation. How would you say it without sounding French?
 
Re: Is it "smug" to pronounce "chorizo," "croissant" and "latte" correctly?

The Daily Mail reports on a Mumsnet argument on whether pronouncing foreign foods' names correctly is "pretentious." I don't think so. Is "latte" really that hard? Woman provokes Mumsnet debate over chorizo pronunciation | Daily Mail Online

But it's "wok-a-mole-eh" and "hala-pain-yo." :mrgreen:

Latte isn't pronounced La-Tay? I don't hang around people who drink too many of them but I've always heart it that way...even in Italy...by Italians.

I remember some comedy skit from decades ago where the obnoxious guy took his date to a French restaurant. The waiter asked if they would like to order a glass of wine and, after taking an extended look at the list, he ordered two glasses of Wit-Tay. The server says, "Very well sir, I'll be back with the..white..wine"
 
Re: Is it "smug" to pronounce "chorizo," "croissant" and "latte" correctly?

But croissant has no Anglicised pronounciation. How would you say it without sounding French?

"Crescent Roll". Preferably by Pillsbury.
 
Re: Is it "smug" to pronounce "chorizo," "croissant" and "latte" correctly?

The Daily Mail reports on a Mumsnet argument on whether pronouncing foreign foods' names correctly is "pretentious." I don't think so. Is "latte" really that hard? Woman provokes Mumsnet debate over chorizo pronunciation | Daily Mail Online

But it's "wok-a-mole-eh" and "hala-pain-yo." :mrgreen:

Actually it's, "hala-PEN-yo". ;)

People find the stupidest things to get upset over. It is proper and correct to pronounce words correctly.
 
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