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The "plateau"

Cardinal

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Seriously, explain the plateau in a concrete, coherent way. No mushy "maybe it's because" or "perhaps it's due to" responses. This is a mathematical problem, and it deserves a near-mathematical response.

A pound is 3500 calories. If I'm losing 500 calories per day, my weight should be going down incrementally. It should not be staying at the same number.

Let's say you start with a bucket of ten apples, and every day I remove one apple from the bucket. If the result of this, every day, is that the bucket continues to be filled with ten apples...and assuming I'm not regularly adding new apples to the bucket...you would agree this would be a legitimate premise for an episode of the X-Files.

Also, don't give me the "water retention" argument. Water weight fluctuates, but it doesn't explain the same weight over an extended period of time.

So again...in a completely cogent and intellectual way, explain the "plateau."
 
Seriously, explain the plateau in a concrete, coherent way. No mushy "maybe it's because" or "perhaps it's due to" responses. This is a mathematical problem, and it deserves a near-mathematical response.

A pound is 3500 calories. If I'm losing 500 calories per day, my weight should be going down incrementally. It should not be staying at the same number.

Let's say you start with a bucket of ten apples, and every day I remove one apple from the bucket. If the result of this, every day, is that the bucket continues to be filled with ten apples...and assuming I'm not regularly adding new apples to the bucket...you would agree this would be a legitimate premise for an episode of the X-Files.

Also, don't give me the "water retention" argument. Water weight fluctuates, but it doesn't explain the same weight over an extended period of time.

So again...in a completely cogent and intellectual way, explain the "plateau."

Well I'm working on the opposite. I weighed 115 lbs for most of my teenage/adult life. I eat normally. In the past year I increased my calorie intake and went to the gym 3-4 times a day (which I never did before) Now I weigh about 140. I'm stuck at 140. So how is it that I did the same thing three months ago and gained a few pounds then, but now can't gain any more??? perplexing. I need to eat more bananas methinks.
 
Well I'm working on the opposite. I weighed 115 lbs for most of my teenage/adult life. I eat normally. In the past year I increased my calorie intake and went to the gym 3-4 times a day (which I never did before) Now I weigh about 140. I'm stuck at 140. So how is it that I did the same thing three months ago and gained a few pounds then, but now can't gain any more??? perplexing. I need to eat more bananas methinks.

A six pack of IPA would fix that dilemma pretty quickly.
 
Simply : Your body tries to adjust to any regimen you subject it to. Your body "sees" what's coming and tries to save itself. Breaking the plateau requires varying the regimen.

Add a workout to the routine, and change it up frequently (maybe every week or 2). It can be as simple as changing running for biking for swimming, and changing the kind of chest routine you do, etc. Keep throwing curves.

I'm had the opposite problem (stopped gaining muscle/weight) but the solution is the same. You'll still plateau, but not as badly. When trying to gain you can also vary what you eat.
 
Simply : Your body tries to adjust to any regimen you subject it to. Your body "sees" what's coming and tries to save itself. Breaking the plateau requires varying the regimen.

Add a workout to the routine, and change it up frequently (maybe every week or 2). It can be as simple as changing running for biking for swimming, and changing the kind of chest routine you do, etc. Keep throwing curves.

I'm had the opposite problem (stopped gaining muscle/weight) but the solution is the same. You'll still plateau, but not as badly. When trying to gain you can also vary what you eat.

How does the body "adjust" to a regimen? Does my body say, "A pound is now worth 20,000 calories"?
 
For the record, I'm following a rigorous nutritional plan, making sure my body gets every damn bit of protein, carbs and essential fats it needs. I then exercise to make sure I hit the daily net 500 calorie deficit. I use Myfitnesspal and log every calorie consumed and burned like I'm Rain Man. There is simply no way my body is going into some kind of hibernation/starvation mode (which, again, wouldn't make mathematical sense anyway).
 
How does the body "adjust" to a regimen? Does my body say, "A pound is now worth 20,000 calories"?

It adjusts by not burning. Basically, it slows your metabolism. It says, "oh, that again???".

I'm not a med student, but I have a good bit of experience fighting that tendency. Also, what I know is based on a lot of reading but it might be out dated. I was forced to cut back on the body building stuff about 15 years ago.
 
It adjusts by not burning. Basically, it slows your metabolism. It says, "oh, that again???".

I'm not a med student, but I have a good bit of experience fighting that tendency. Also, what I know is based on a lot of reading but it might be out dated. I was forced to cut back on the body building stuff about 15 years ago.

With all due respect, that makes no more sense to me than the bucket of apples saying, "Oh, that again?" and staying at ten apples after you've removed yet another apple.
 
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Try reading this:
Access Denied
Metabolism and weight loss: How you burn calories - Mayo Clinic

It makes sense. It sucks for people wanting to lose fat or add muscle, but there you go.

I read the Mayo Clinic articles already (well, I doubt I read all of them, but I've read a bunch). None of them answer how a net deficit of 500 calories results in the body saying, "Yeah, screw that, a pound is whatever number of calories I say it is now." And per post #6, far from denying my body important nutrients, I've given it more and better nutrients on a daily basis than it's seen in years.
 
I read the Mayo Clinic articles already (well, I doubt I read all of them, but I've read a bunch). None of them answer how a net deficit of 500 calories results in the body saying, "Yeah, screw that, a pound is whatever number of calories I say it is now." And per post #6, far from denying my body important nutrients, I've given it more and better nutrients on a daily basis than it's seen in years.

The other link has this:
January 18, 2019
One of the biggest issues facing dieters is the impact of very strict diets on the body. Find out more about metabolism and calorie adaptation right here.

Article Summary:
Your body is going to do everything in its power to get what it wants.
When you go on a diet, your metabolism will eventually begin to slow.
Never neglect the importance of a good diet break.
One of the biggest issues facing dieters who are eager to start seeing fat loss is the impact of very strict diets on the body. As soon as you start cutting back your calorie intake, removing foods you used to really enjoy from your daily menu, and often bumping up your exercise volume in addition to this, you're going to notice a variety of things happening.

First, you're going to get food cravings. Second, you're going to start feeling fatigued throughout your workouts. Third, you're going to start getting hungry - very hungry. All of these side effects are due to the fact that you're now feeding your body less than what it would like.

When your body doesn't have its way, it's going to start doing everything in its power to get what it wants. This is what makes fat loss such a huge challenge that people face and fail on a daily basis.

We are basically programmed to store excess energy as a survival mechanism. Your body will adjust to diet (to the extent possible) to make sure energy stores aren't depleted. You have to shock/fool it sometimes. Plateaus are those times.
 
The other link has this:


We are basically programmed to store excess energy as a survival mechanism. Your body will adjust to diet (to the extent possible) to make sure energy stores aren't depleted. You have to shock/fool it sometimes. Plateaus are those times.

What this doesn't explain is a number of factors, some of which I neglected to spell out clearly in the OP:

1)I'm starting my deficit policy from a starting point of a sedentary lifestyle. So when you log in your age, height, weight and lifestyle, and from lifestyle you get to choose sedentary, mildly active, very active and athletic, I choose "sedentary" because that way when I do my workouts I'm subtracting calories from the bare minimum.

2)My workouts, therefore, are specifically adjusting for a lower metabolism because it's assuming a basically nonexistent one to start with.

3)My diet regimen is meeting near or at 100% protein requirement, which, trust me, is really really high. The most challenging aspect of this diet is how to meet the 500 calorie deficit while still meeting all of my protein, carb, fiber and necessary fats needs. After I've done all that math, then I figure out the workout I need to do to hit the correct calorie deficit. Therefore, it can't be said my body is in starvation.
 
Seriously, explain the plateau in a concrete, coherent way. No mushy "maybe it's because" or "perhaps it's due to" responses. This is a mathematical problem, and it deserves a near-mathematical response.

A pound is 3500 calories. If I'm losing 500 calories per day, my weight should be going down incrementally. It should not be staying at the same number.

Let's say you start with a bucket of ten apples, and every day I remove one apple from the bucket. If the result of this, every day, is that the bucket continues to be filled with ten apples...and assuming I'm not regularly adding new apples to the bucket...you would agree this would be a legitimate premise for an episode of the X-Files.

Also, don't give me the "water retention" argument. Water weight fluctuates, but it doesn't explain the same weight over an extended period of time.

So again...in a completely cogent and intellectual way, explain the "plateau."

Metabolism slows to cause you to retain weight. The longer one is a certain weight, the harder the body will fight to stay at that weight. It can be beaten with a very long-term approach, and difficulty, but it's one of the main reasons diets fail: it has to be a lifelong approach and it takes a very long time to adjust.
 
Speaking of fitness - I was in Portland last week and picked up an mj vape cartridge - a strain called, "Durbin Poison".

I decided to "hit" it before I went to the gym last night.

You know that feeling of euphoria you get like 15 min into your workout? - you know you're still breathing hard and your hr is up where is should be but you don't feel the "ache" or the "pain" of the cardio anymore? What if you felt like that before you even went to the gym?

I hit the elliptical and did 2.09 miles in 17 min. My hr hovered between 158 - 163.

My weight sets were all at the top of my current ability.

And today I feel great!

Now, I do need to warn all of you - if you do decide to workout majorly stoned like I did - DO NOT, FOR ANY REASON CLOSE YOUR EYES!!

I'm going to repeat that:

if you do decide to workout majorly stoned like I did - DO NOT, FOR ANY REASON CLOSE YOUR EYES!!

I closed my eyes just for a few seconds while I was singing on the elliptical and something really, really bad almost happened. <whew!>
 
Oh as far as Cardinal's thing - he should watch his caloric intake and do some type of exercise every day - even if it's a 10 minute walk. Get moving - something. He'll lose weight if he does that.

I can't stand Cardinal but I'm all about people getting healthy.
 
The plateau was Masada. There, did it without math.
 
Oh as far as Cardinal's thing - he should watch his caloric intake and do some type of exercise every day - even if it's a 10 minute walk. Get moving - something. He'll lose weight if he does that.

I watch the bejeezus out of my caloric intake and go to the gym no fewer than four days a week. I'm trying to lose the last five pounds and it's like my body is changing the laws of physics just to keep them.

I can't stand Cardinal but I'm all about people getting healthy.

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I watch the bejeezus out of my caloric intake and go to the gym no fewer than four days a week. I'm trying to lose the last five pounds and it's like my body is changing the laws of physics just to keep them.

That's one way of putting it.

Your metabolism can seriously change. Not to discourage you, but you're going to have to keep doing the calorie thing for quite a while until it readjusts. (Though as to the gym, bulking up w/ muscle will definitely help. More muscle mass = more resting calorie consumption).
 
I watch the bejeezus out of my caloric intake and go to the gym no fewer than four days a week. I'm trying to lose the last five pounds and it's like my body is changing the laws of physics just to keep them.



eSCALATED_1487040000699_8508527_ver1.0.jpg

What are you doing at the gym 4 days a week? There is no way, my enemy if you are doing at least an hour workout (30 cardio and 30 weights) and you're eating healthy that you won't lose weight. If all else is normal with you, healthwise, there is no reason! Have you spoken with a doctor about it? There might be something else going on with you healthwise <-- I'm serious!
 
That's one way of putting it.

Your metabolism can seriously change. Not to discourage you, but you're going to have to keep doing the calorie thing for quite a while until it readjusts. (Though as to the gym, bulking up w/ muscle will definitely help. More muscle mass = more resting calorie consumption).

This. I have been working out more than I ever have, and I am barely keeping in shape due to my body reaching middle age. In my younger days I didnt even bother to work out and could eat as much as I want and still remained thin. When you hit 35 your metabolism changes dramatically- you may have to work out twice as hard just to stay healthy. Everyone is different, so there's no universal way to keep in shape except by experimentation.
 
What are you doing at the gym 4 days a week? There is no way, my enemy if you are doing at least an hour workout (30 cardio and 30 weights) and you're eating healthy that you won't lose weight. If all else is normal with you, healthwise, there is no reason! Have you spoken with a doctor about it? There might be something else going on with you healthwise <-- I'm serious!

It depends quite a bit on one's starting weight. The only diets that work properly are permanent and gradual changes. Otherwise, your body fights tooth and claw to keep weight by basically slowing your metabolism until you're practically at starvation level. It adjusts over a long period of time, sure, but it isn't easy.
 
This. I have been working out more than I ever have, and I am barely keeping in shape due to my body reaching middle age. In my younger days I didnt even bother to work out and could eat as much as I want and still remained thin. When you hit 35 your metabolism changes dramatically- you may have to work out twice as hard just to stay healthy. Everyone is different, so there's no universal way to keep in shape except by experimentation.

DA3E6976-80B3-4398-AEBC-D6D0468BD29B.jpg
 
It depends quite a bit on one's starting weight. The only diets that work properly are permanent and gradual changes. Otherwise, your body fights tooth and claw to keep weight by basically slowing your metabolism until you're practically at starvation level. It adjusts over a long period of time, sure, but it isn't easy.

I mean - I've gained and lost weight several times. As long as I've stuck to my program (and even with limited, "cheating") I've always made my goal - and then of course gained it all back in order to do it again. I need to stop doing that - the "falling back into bad habits" part.
 
Seriously, explain the plateau in a concrete, coherent way. No mushy "maybe it's because" or "perhaps it's due to" responses. This is a mathematical problem, and it deserves a near-mathematical response.
A pound is 3500 calories. If I'm losing 500 calories per day, my weight should be going down incrementally. It should not be staying at the same number.
So again...in a completely cogent and intellectual way, explain the "plateau."
The human body is the most complex system in the known universe. The idea that we should know it to mathematical-level precision, is so far from reality that I'll assume you meant it in jest. It should be a goal, and we don't spend near the resource we should to achieve it, but even a scientist specializing in the body, knows very little in terms of math, as related to the human body.

Here is an attempt to use simple math:

Metabolism + activity = calories per day to maintain.
Metabolism is a variable that changes both with activity and changes to diet, and even the change itself is not linear.

So if you're losing weight at 1800 calorie intake, and stop losing weight, your numbers might look like this:
1500 metabolism + 150 activity + 150 digestion = 1800/day.

You can typically reduce your calories and/or increase your activity.

As you know, you probably don't want calories to go below 1500 to be safe (1200 min?).
And if you are sedentary, that's a health risk like smoking, so you don't want to cut activity.
Ideally you want to exercise in a way that is long-term healthy, and adjust calories during this time to lose weight. Once you hit goal, maintain. Over time, diet/body usually adjust so that you can manager you diet by feel rather than calculations. I don't know much about dieting personally (I am ideal BMI without effort, I cannot take credit for it), but I think you want to get your body burning your fat reserves, and then return to a maintenance exercise/diet.


Examples that describe x-files phenomenon.

If you start exercising your body may need more calories to fuel the activity (the muscle movements, breathing, etc.)
However, it may also need more to fuel the creation of muscle mass, so it take some extra calories to build muscles.
Over time, you will no longer need to add muscle mass at the same exercise level, so your body will stop using those calories (a mini plateau)
Depending on the exercise, your muscles may get more efficient as they respond to your activity level, and essentially may be able to give you the same work output, for less caloric intake. (another mini plateau)

So just "starting a constant exercise regime", results in a non-linear change in calories used, over time, in at least two significant ways.
Similarly when you lose weight, you go through various non-linear changes in metabolism, where your body gets the calories (from your body or digestion), etc.
 
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