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Double Genocide - Lithuania accusing Jewish partisans who fought the Germans of war crimes.

calamity said:
There is a certain whitewashing of history when it comes to the occupied collaborating with Nazis when it came to exterminating Jews.
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Indeed .... Hungary, Romania, Slovakia, etc.
 
Rogue Valley said:
Indeed .... Hungary, Romania, Slovakia, etc.
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There are even arguments out there trying to say only a minority of Germans wanted the Jews gone. Funny how that works.
 
calamity said:
There are even arguments out there trying to say only a minority of Germans wanted the Jews gone. Funny how that works.
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Folks also push the argument on this very board that modern day Nazis only exist in a few select countries.
 
AmNat said:
Well I'm glad they're finally getting around to it.



And I support the killing of communists. I don't care about their ethnicity.
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Actually, the war criminals are the guys the Lithuanians are celebrating as heroes.

Yes, yes, we know, “reactionaries” are little more than fascists too scared to admit it. :roll:
 
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Rogue Valley said:
Folks also push the argument on this very board that modern day Nazis only exist in a few select countries.
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There are only a select few countries who ask outsiders to give their Nazis military training, and hold up their collaborators as heroes.
 
Rogue Valley said:
Folks also push the argument on this very board that modern day Nazis only exist in a few select countries.
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Liars might, but most of us know a duck by its quack.
 
Rogue Valley said:
Another dumb thread blaming every Lithuanian for what happened in Lithuania during WWII.

Not much different than blaming every Russian for the Holodomor.
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Incorrect.

Just the Nazi collaborators of which there were more of (per capita) than any other occupied territory.
 
Outlook said:
When gonads says “every single Lithuanian alive at the time participated in the holocaust”, I’m going to call out his stupidity.
95% of the Jews in Lithuania were murdered.
Klimaitis lead a group of 600 to kill Jews on behalf of the Nazis.
Noreika is no hero and the Lithuanian know this. He was recognized for his efforts to fight the Russians.
The Russians were barbarians, deporting thousands of people opposed to Russia before and after Germany invasion of Russia.
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“More than 95% of Lithuania's Jewish population was massacred over the three-year German occupation—a more complete destruction than befell any other country affected by the Holocaust. Historians attribute this to the massive collaboration in the genocide by the non-Jewish local paramilitaries, though the reasons for this collaboration are still debated.[1][2][3][4] The Holocaust resulted in the largest-ever loss of life in so short a period of time in the history of Lithuania.[4]”

Not every Lithuanian participated....but enough did to almost totally annihilate the Jewish populace.

And yet he’s being celebrated as a hero. Claiming that “gee, he bravely fought the Russians” doesn’t change the facts about the numerous atrocities he and his men committed.

“ A combination of factors serves as an explanation for participation of some Lithuanians in genocide against Jews.[11] Those factors include national traditions and values, including antisemitism, common throughout contemporary Central Europe, and a more Lithuanian-specific desire for a "pure" Lithuanian nation-state with which the Jewish population was believed to be incompatible.[3] There were a number of additional factors, such as severe economic problems which led to the killing of Jews over personal property.[11] Finally the Jews were seen as having supported the Soviet regime in Lithuania during 1940–1941.[d][3][11][16] During the period leading up to the German invasion, the Jews were blamed by some for virtually every misfortune that had befallen Lithuania.[3][16]”

The Holocaust in Lithuania - Wikipedia
 
Outlook said:
When gonads says “every single Lithuanian alive at the time participated in the holocaust”, I’m going to call out his stupidity.
95% of the Jews in Lithuania were murdered.
Klimaitis lead a group of 600 to kill Jews on behalf of the Nazis.
Noreika is no hero and the Lithuanian know this. He was recognized for his efforts to fight the Russians.
The Russians were barbarians, deporting thousands of people opposed to Russia before and after Germany invasion of Russia.
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Who stated that?

Cowboy up.

The one who said it is AmNat and he is on YOUR side of the issue.

AmNat said:
Totally. Every single Lithuanian alive at that time participated in the Holocaust. And their descendants all bear blood guilt for the crime.

As I said, you should really write that book.
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Tigerace117 said:
“More than 95% of Lithuania's Jewish population was massacred over the three-year German occupation—a more complete destruction than befell any other country affected by the Holocaust. Historians attribute this to the massive collaboration in the genocide by the non-Jewish local paramilitaries, though the reasons for this collaboration are still debated.[1][2][3][4] The Holocaust resulted in the largest-ever loss of life in so short a period of time in the history of Lithuania.[4]”

Not every Lithuanian participated....but enough did to almost totally annihilate the Jewish populace.

And yet he’s being celebrated as a hero. Claiming that “gee, he bravely fought the Russians” doesn’t change the facts about the numerous atrocities he and his men committed.

“ A combination of factors serves as an explanation for participation of some Lithuanians in genocide against Jews.[11] Those factors include national traditions and values, including antisemitism, common throughout contemporary Central Europe, and a more Lithuanian-specific desire for a "pure" Lithuanian nation-state with which the Jewish population was believed to be incompatible.[3] There were a number of additional factors, such as severe economic problems which led to the killing of Jews over personal property.[11] Finally the Jews were seen as having supported the Soviet regime in Lithuania during 1940–1941.[d][3][11][16] During the period leading up to the German invasion, the Jews were blamed by some for virtually every misfortune that had befallen Lithuania.[3][16]”

The Holocaust in Lithuania - Wikipedia
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There is literally nothing that can exhonerate these people for what they did and how they still celebrate their nation's wartime activities.
 
Fledermaus said:
Have you evidence this person was a "communist secret police agent" or that he was "a communist murderer"?

Is everyone who fought the NAZIS as a partisan a "a communist murderer "?

You will find Lithuania is the one Nazi occupied country where the Holocaust wasn't only participated in but enthusiastically.
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What surprises you that he stood up for the fascist bastards in Lithuania? You didn't know that a capitalist will always choose fascism, when choosing between communism and fascism?
 
Ringo Stalin said:
What surprises you that he stood up for the fascist bastards in Lithuania? You didn't know that a capitalist will always choose fascism, when choosing between communism and fascism?
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Lol yeah, that’s why Britain and the US joined Nazi Germany in attacking the Soviet Union. Oh wait...the exact opposite happened :roll:
 
Fledermaus said:
Double Genocide
Lithuania wants to erase its ugly history of Nazi collaboration—by accusing Jewish partisans who fought the Germans of war crimes.

Arad went upstairs to the room he shares with his wife and fetched a war medal he received for his service fighting the Nazis behind enemy lines. It had been issued by the Soviet Union, which backed the partisans in their struggle against the Germans. “This is the Partisan Medal, First Degree,” Arad explained. “The most important medal for partisans.” Cast seven decades ago, the tarnished medal had outlived the state that issued it, but the profile of Stalin proudly staring off into the distance, upstaging a profile of Lenin behind it, remained clear.

These days, Arad, and others like him, are no longer lauded for their wartime efforts on behalf of Lithuania. In a new party line, institutions of the contemporary Lithuanian government now portray Nazi-aligned nationalists as anti-Soviet heroes and anti-Nazi partisans—in particular the Jewish ones—as traitors. Arad lives under the cloud of an open-ended investigation by Lithuanian prosecutors for crimes against humanity committed in the final days of World War II, when he allegedly executed Lithuanian anti-Communists, including civilians, for Stalin’s secret police. After decades of being hailed as a war hero, the old man sitting across the table from me had, in the eyes of his homeland, become a war criminal.

Lithuania and Nazis: The country wants to forget its collaborationist past by accusing Jewish partisans of war crimes.
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You forgot to mention that the Slate piece says Arad lives in an upscale retirement home in Tel Aviv, so he's probably not under threat of being arrested for war crimes, or of being a victim of rampant antisemitisms anytime soon.
 
Ringo Stalin said:
What surprises you that he stood up for the fascist bastards in Lithuania? You didn't know that a capitalist will always choose fascism, when choosing between communism and fascism?
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The Chinese Communist Party chose capitalism, after Maoist Communism failed miserably. We aren't living under political system segregation anymore, we get to mix and match.
 
Fledermaus said:
Ponary massacre

The Ponary massacre or Paneriai massacre (Polish: zbrodnia w Ponarach) was the mass murder of up to 100,000 people, mostly Jews, Poles, and Russians by German SD and SS and their Lithuanian collaborators

Ponary massacre - Wikipedia
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It's amazing that in spite of Jews being no more than 2-3% of any given European country at the time, and being outnumbered by Russians and Poles by huge margins, they were always the biggest, most special victims of every massacre.
 
truthatallcost said:
It's amazing that in spite of Jews being no more than 2-3% of any given European country at the time, and being outnumbered by Russians and Poles by huge margins, they were always the biggest, most special victims of every massacre.
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What a surprise, the Iron Guard fanboy is whining about people pointing out historical fact again.

How shocking :roll:
 
truthatallcost said:
It's amazing that in spite of Jews being no more than 2-3% of any given European country at the time, and being outnumbered by Russians and Poles by huge margins, they were always the biggest, most special victims of every massacre.
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Awww

Pointing out the bad Black shirts bothers you so....

The fact is many German Jews were deported to the Eastern countries. Only to be rounded up and slaughtered by the Nazis and their butt buddies.

1933... When the paperhanger took office.

In prewar central Europe, the largest Jewish community was in Germany, with about 525,000 members (0.75% of the total German population). This was followed by Hungary with 445,000 (5.1%), Czechoslovakia with 357,000 (2.4%), and Austria with 191,000, most of whom resided in the capital city of Vienna (2.8%).

The majority of Jews in prewar Europe resided in eastern Europe. The largest Jewish communities in this area were in Poland, with about 3,000,000 Jews (9.5%); the European part of the Soviet Union, with 2,525,000 (3.4%); and Romania, with 756,000 (4.2%). The Jewish population in the three Baltic states totaled 255,000: 95,600 in Latvia, 155,000 in Lithuania, and 4,560 in Estonia. Here, Jews comprised 4.9%, 7.6%, and 0.4% of each country's population, respectively, and 5% of the region's total population.

Please fail again.

The Jews of Poland and Lithuania were effectively wiped out. 2 out of 3 Jews in Europe were killing. Many others fled. Lithuania was particularly Jew free.
 
Ringo Stalin said:
What surprises you that he stood up for the fascist bastards in Lithuania? You didn't know that a capitalist will always choose fascism, when choosing between communism and fascism?
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Horse manure.
 
Tigerace117 said:
What a surprise, the Iron Guard fanboy is whining about people pointing out historical fact again.

How shocking :roll:
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If historians suddenly 'discovered' that more Jews died at Nagasaki than Japanese, you would HAVE TO ENDORSE WHAT THEY SAID. That's the major downfall of being a cowed lackey to these people, you are at the mercy of whatever delusional whim they might have at the moment. And before you come back with some dumb predictable retort, the 'historians' kicked around the idea of upping the official holocaust death toll to 20 million a few years ago. So yes, they do play fast and loose with the facts of reality.
 
Fledermaus said:
Awww

Pointing out the bad Black shirts bothers you so....

The fact is many German Jews were deported to the Eastern countries. Only to be rounded up and slaughtered by the Nazis and their butt buddies.

1933... When the paperhanger took office.

In prewar central Europe, the largest Jewish community was in Germany, with about 525,000 members (0.75% of the total German population). This was followed by Hungary with 445,000 (5.1%), Czechoslovakia with 357,000 (2.4%), and Austria with 191,000, most of whom resided in the capital city of Vienna (2.8%).

The majority of Jews in prewar Europe resided in eastern Europe. The largest Jewish communities in this area were in Poland, with about 3,000,000 Jews (9.5%); the European part of the Soviet Union, with 2,525,000 (3.4%); and Romania, with 756,000 (4.2%). The Jewish population in the three Baltic states totaled 255,000: 95,600 in Latvia, 155,000 in Lithuania, and 4,560 in Estonia. Here, Jews comprised 4.9%, 7.6%, and 0.4% of each country's population, respectively, and 5% of the region's total population.

Please fail again.

The Jews of Poland and Lithuania were effectively wiped out. 2 out of 3 Jews in Europe were killing. Many others fled. Lithuania was particularly Jew free.
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Bold, ah he finally told the truth.

In 1938, Russian Jews killed German children for sport. That's 3 years before the start of the holocaust. Is it possible that there was some pent up resentment against the Jews, and not all of it stemmed from canards and tropes?
 
truthatallcost said:
You forgot to mention that the Slate piece says Arad lives in an upscale retirement home in Tel Aviv, so he's probably not under threat of being arrested for war crimes, or of being a victim of rampant antisemitisms anytime soon.
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Now that he is no longer in LITHUANIA.
 
truthatallcost said:
Bold, ah he finally told the truth.

In 1938, Russian Jews killed German children for sport. That's 3 years before the start of the holocaust. Is it possible that there was some pent up resentment against the Jews, and not all of it stemmed from canards and tropes?
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I posted the numbers. You posted incorrect information.

Start a thread for that rumor....

And according to whom were these Russian Jews?

And finally if true do you think this in any way excuses the Nazi systematic genocide of so many simply due to their Religion?
 
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