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The Swedish experiment of doing remarkably little about Covid-19

Hawkeye10 said:
The Brits were going to try it, but they got shamed out of the idea....

But here is the thing to remember,,,,,the so-called experts are wrong so often why would anyone claim them as experts?
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Yup, exactly. Ferguson proclaimed 500K Brits would die, but then revised his model a few weeks later. What a cad.
 
PoS said:
Yup, exactly. Ferguson proclaimed 500K Brits would die, but then revised his model a few weeks later. What a cad.
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I get around as you know and this is what the experts have generally been saying over the last two weeks, the ones I listen to, the ones who seem to be worth listening to...."We are flying blind because we have almost no data and almost no testing.....which is both dangerous and stupid....we should have been able to do better".

But here is the thing...we did not do better.

We are so screwed.
 
PoS said:
Incorrect. Theyre still practicing herd immunity, so are the Dutch, to a degree.

STILL Sweden bucks the trend: Public continue to mill about in groups as life goes on despite warnings their government's coronavirus approach is recipe for disaster
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Why not read from the Swedish Govt iself?

They are pretty much changing policy according to circumstance and taking similar measures to what the UK did a few weeks ago.

The Government’s work in response to the virus responsible for COVID-19 - Government.se

Except they will take testing more seriously than we ever did.
 
Sandokan said:
Sweden’s chief epidemiologist Anders Tegnell argued that “even if the country's comparatively permissive policies are an anomaly, they are more sustainable and effective in protecting the public's health than “drastic” moves like closing schools for four or five months…

The goal is to slow down the amount of new people getting infected so that health care gets a reasonable chance to take care of them. And that's what we all do in every country in Europe. We just choose different methods to do it.”

We will see in a couple of weeks how well Sweden approach work. Quarantine of the elderly and preexisting condition while at the same time low risk people practice the recommended guideline to reduce the spread of the coronavirus looks a reasonable method to handle the health crisis.
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Italian politicians have a bit different approach.

 
Infinite Chaos said:
Why not read from the Swedish Govt iself?

They are pretty much changing policy according to circumstance and taking similar measures to what the UK did a few weeks ago.

The Government’s work in response to the virus responsible for COVID-19 - Government.se

Except they will take testing more seriously than we ever did.
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Yes it's about adopt the situation with holding the number of sick so low that hospitals can coop and protect the elderly and take more strict measures if needed.
 
Lord of Planar said:
I think they are doing the right thing by not ruining the economy over this. People who are high risk are adult enough to quarantine themselves against others, right?
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There is no one immune from critical illness from Covid 19. Those that do not get sick spread the virus to those that do.
 
iguanaman said:
There is no one immune from critical illness from Covid 19.
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Where did you get that statistic from?

Those who suffer critical illness from C19 are a very small percentage - around 5%.
 
PoS said:
Where does it say that they are introducing lockdowns?
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Strawman.
I clearly stated they are where we were two weeks ago. Stricter measures have been clearly laid out - just not used yet.
 
Infinite Chaos said:
Strawman.
I clearly stated they are where we were two weeks ago. Stricter measures have been clearly laid out - just not used yet.
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There is nothing in the link you gave that says stronger measures are being considered.
 
iguanaman said:
There is no one immune from critical illness from Covid 19. Those that do not get sick spread the virus to those that do.
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I think you might want to re-think your statement.

"Critical illness?"

You acknowledge some people don't get ill from it. Now technically, the virus is SARS-CoV-2. The illness is COVID-19. Yes, those who are asymptomatic, can spread the virus, but ifs far harder to.
 
Snazzy said:
Where did you get that statistic from?

Those who suffer critical illness from C19 are a very small percentage - around 5%.
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I doubt it's even close to that many, since we have not tested enough people with no symptoms.
 
Hawkeye10 said:
I get around as you know and this is what the experts have generally been saying over the last two weeks, the ones I listen to, the ones who seem to be worth listening to...."We are flying blind because we have almost no data and almost no testing.....which is both dangerous and stupid....we should have been able to do better".

But here is the thing...we did not do better.

We are so screwed.
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The problem is we dont have the reagents to do the testing and the antibody testing just can online. Its takes TIME to produce, deliver and test for the disease. We dont make a lot of the necessary things for medical testing techniques that are common. Thats the bottleneck and we are competing with other countries to get those testing materials. It takes more time than we have to build the plant necessary to make the testing agents we need.
 
Lord of Planar said:
I think you might want to re-think your statement.

"Critical illness?"

You acknowledge some people don't get ill from it. Now technically, the virus is SARS-CoV-2. The illness is COVID-19. Yes, those who are asymptomatic, can spread the virus, but ifs far harder to.
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There is no rhyme or reason we have determined that makes anyone immune for becoming critical and even dying. Many younger and healthy adults are being hospitalized. 20% of those in ICU's are millennials..Yes they pull thru more often than 80 year olds but the young and healthy are dying too.
 
PoS said:
There is nothing in the link you gave that says stronger measures are being considered.
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From the bits I've read in the different links (and something a Swedish friend sent me from Expressen newspaper)

Sweden since banned gatherings of over 50 people, also visits to old people's homes.

For now, they ask that people in restaurants can only be served if seated at their tables and the Prime Minister has also stated that stricter measures will follow as necessary (and outlined in the link I gave you) and the restart of the football season has been delayed. Like I stated 2 posts ago -they are following a curve we had 3 weeks ago except one thing that is different - they are considering a law to expel immigrants.
 
Lord of Planar said:
I doubt it's even close to that many, since we have not tested enough people with no symptoms.
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Yes that is true but the death rate even for 20 somethings is still higher than the overall death rate for H1N1 was in 2009. Make no mistake this is one nasty bug and it's infection rate is thru the roof compared to H1N1.

MONDAY, March 30, 2020 (HealthDay News) -- Once infected with the new coronavirus, a 20-something has about a 1% chance of illness so severe it requires hospitalization, and that risk rises to more than 8% for people in their 50s and to nearly 19% for people over 80, a comprehensive new analysis finds.
On the other hand, the death rate from COVID-19 is significantly lower than that seen in prior estimates, the new report found. Among diagnosed cases, just under 1.4% of patients will die, according to a team led by Neil Ferguson, of the Imperial College London.

And when undiagnosed cases -- typically individuals with mild or no symptoms -- are added into the mix, the overall death rate from coronavirus infections drops further to 0.66%, the British researchers found.

That's still much higher than the 0.02% death rate observed during the H1N1 flu season of 2009, the investigators noted.

A person's odds for death after infection with the new coronavirus also rose with age. An estimated 0.031% of people in their 20s will die, the new analysis found, compared to 7.8% of people over 80.
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Access Denied
 
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iguanaman said:
There is no rhyme or reason we have determined that makes anyone immune for becoming critical and even dying. Many younger and healthy adults are being hospitalized. 20% of those in ICU's are millennials..Yes they pull thru more often than 80 year olds but the young and healthy are dying too.
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I'll bet they are only being hospitalized because of the panic.
 
iguanaman said:
Yes that is true but the death rate even for 20 somethings is still higher than the overall death rate for H1N1 was in 2009. Make no mistake this is one nasty bug and it's infection rate is thru the roof compared to H1N1.



Access Denied
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Really?

The numbers I say for people in their 20's was exceptionally low, and only those who already had serious aliments.
 
iguanaman said:
Did you read my post or not? Is .03% higher than .02%?
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Thing is, this is a SARS virus. Not H1N1. About 7.7% of the young adults have asthma. It stands to reason that around 0.4% of them have it severe enough to die from it.

have you compared it to the 2003 outbreak?
 
PirateMk1 said:
The problem is we dont have the reagents to do the testing and the antibody testing just can online. Its takes TIME to produce, deliver and test for the disease. We dont make a lot of the necessary things for medical testing techniques that are common. Thats the bottleneck and we are competing with other countries to get those testing materials. It takes more time than we have to build the plant necessary to make the testing agents we need.
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"We cant do it because we off-shored production" is NOT the excuse for failure to perform that you claim that it is.
 
Hawkeye10 said:
"We cant do it because we off-shored production" is NOT the excuse for failure to perform that you claim that it is.
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I hate to tell you this, reality has set in, we dont have the capability to make the stuff. That means getting more is problematic at best. Just telling why there are no tests and why they aren't coming soon.
 
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