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Spain under lock down

Spain’s King Felipe VI: “We are going to defeat this crisis”

In a public address on the coronavirus pandemic, the monarch called on Spaniards to remain united and calm as the number of the cases soars to nearly 14,000. “This virus will not defeat us. On the contrary. It will make us stronger as a society; a society that is more committed, more caring, more united. A society that’s standing up against any adversity.” That was the message that Spain’s King Felipe VI conveyed to Spaniards last night as the coronavirus pandemic continued on Wednesday to sweep through the country, causing nearly 14,000 infections and 623 deaths. The monarch said that he had confidence that Spanish society would overcome what he described as an “unprecedented” health crisis.

Coronavirus crisis in Spain: Spain’s King Felipe VI: “We are going to defeat this crisis” | Politics | EL PAIS in English

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King Felipe VI

This is the type of uplifting message the people of Spain deserve from their monarch and it makes a striking change from the political position he took when addressing the people when he took to the airwaves on October 3, 2017 in the wake of the referendum on independence held in Catalonia. Felipe VI can take a leaf from the book of the Queen of England who keeps well away from politics.
That not only demonstrates your utter ignorance on matters of Spain, but is also idiotic to the extreme.

For those more interested in pertinent facts than irrelevant opinion, his father, as commander-in-chief of the armed forces that any monarch here happens to be, practically stopped the attempted coup of 1981 single-handedly by ordering all forces of the military back to barracks.

Furthermore it is the Royal's duty to protect the Constitution and speaking out in disfavor of anyone trying to breach it (as Catalonian nationalists did) is not only his prerogative but a responsibility.
 
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I feel the average age in Italy added to complication, spread may be similar to other regions at similar stage but with a much older population - also more vulnerable, the problems were worse.
Italy was hit hardest in Lombardy and where that is a region with medical facilities that keep up with the best, there was not enough of it around for even a "smaller" emergency.

Ongoing budget cuts leading to a shortage of staff and run-of-the-mill materials that has an even bigger negative impact right now than lack of medical apparatus, which is generally top notch in the Northern part.

They had to go on a triage system that forced them to choose who they were going to treat and who they were going to let die.

I've seen coverage of nurses breaking down in tears in interviews, not to mention breaking down from sheer fatigue.

Heart breaking.
 
Italy was hit hardest in Lombardy

I take all your points abour facilities but I wonder also if the biggest influx of Chinese tourism has been in that area when the virus was passing around from person to person.
 
I take all your points abour facilities but I wonder also if the biggest influx of Chinese tourism has been in that area when the virus was passing around from person to person.
There's suspicion that the virus was circulating for weeks before being recognized, the first three cases identified in January and two of the three having been tourists from (not to) China. All were isolated and further contacts (of the three) identified and "pursued". Shortly after that Italy cut all flight connections with China.

But a different infection chain appears to have secretly been active in Lombardy since January and lousy co-ordination (lack of agreement between government(s) and hospitals when and whom to test) wasn't helpful.

Patient "1" (as the Italian Press named him) went to see both his doctor and a hospital repeatedly in mid-Feb, but no one deemed it necessary to test him, since he had not been to China. He infected various others until, with a 36 hour delay, he was finally isolated.

But yeah, Northern Italy is a travel hub, both for industry (commerce) and tourism.

As such, Germany identified their "patient 1" very early. A woman from the Chinese subsidiary of a German car accessory producer, visiting the mother company for a briefing and infecting one of its employees. They cut that one by quarantining the whole firm and pursuing everyone (family, friends) that the guy had been in contact with.

But like with Italy, to no avail. The biggest"import" came practically simultaneously with Germans returning from their Italian holiday, primarily in Northern Italy (Venetia in winter and skiing in the Tyrolese).

Same here in Spain, those found to be infected early on had all been to Italy and then spread it around without realizing.

But it's pointless to appoint any blame (which neither you nor I are doing anyway). Once it goes into wildfire mode, the establishing and then pursuing of infection chains becomes impossible by sheer numbers.

Lockdown (as far as possible) will come at a high cost and is not the ultimate solution, but not enacting it would be totally irresponsible.

Except, of course, to the Lord of the Lies entrapped in the body of the Prime Sinister.:roll:
 
My first thought was an article I read last year about the clandestine world of Chinese sweat shops in Italy turning out clothing for the Italian fashion industry, of which Milan is pretty much the epicentre.
 
I take all your points abour facilities but I wonder also if the biggest influx of Chinese tourism has been in that area when the virus was passing around from person to person.

TBH I dont think so... why? We have TONS.. well had, tons of Chinese tourists here on the Costa, and yet the Spanish spread came from Italy to Madrid and for some reason the Basque country.

Also think of it a bit more... what is more likely that a tourist from Wuhan, a relatively poor place in China, but a big industrial area... that they brought it here, or business people travelling back and fourth brought it? Maybe a combo, but I suspect more that it was business men/women that brought the spread to Italy.

Or the virus has been here far far longer than we know.
 
Spanish language article about the Italian situation: https://www.elperiodico.com/es/inte...r-que-coronavirus-afecta-tanto-italia-7899606

There seem to be wildly divergent mortality rates within Italy, due to (1) virus mutations, the most aggressive of which is in Lombardy (Milan region) (2) different clinical approaches. So in Lombardy (10% mortality rate) they only test the people who present with symptoms, whereas in Veneto (Venice etc) once a person has tested positive they then test everyone they've been in contact with, so are in a better position to control things.
 
As someone experiencing it first hand, here are some insights. 7000+ infected and 292 deaths.

The lock down is considerable. You are only allowed out of your home for specific things and need ID and proof on what you are doing. Police and soon military are out in force.

Things that are allowed.

Food shopping and pharmacy visits. Tobacco shop visit.. Yea I know. IT shops/businesses..somewhat strange. Newspaper stores. Banking. Hairdressers were allowed, but it has changed to home visits only...another strange one.

Doctor visits. Hospital visits.

Visiting vulnerable family members.

Dog walking but only alone. When dog has done business then back you go. If you are 2 people, then you get fined.

Work. Buses and subways/trains still run locally.

Drones and helicopters are being used to find law breakers.

Visiting neighbours in the same building is forbidden, but dunno how they can enforce it.

The first fines and arrests have already happened on day 1, aka today Sunday. The police say they will enforce fully from Monday as most people got off with warnings today. The first arrest was a 20 year old out on his bike and of course he refused to identify himself and tried to run...idiot. First fines were drunk Brits from what I understand.

Fines range from 100 euros to 600k and imprisonment.

Amazon pantry is all but empty, but supermarkets will now be open every day including Sundays in many areas. Sunday opening usually only happens in summer.

Buses ran normally today but were mostly empty. Will see tomorrow if people will use them since the bus drives right by me.

Traffic is down 90% where I am and the hum from the main motorway 7 km away is almost gone.

10 pm last night people showed thier gratitude by clapping enmass out of windows and balconies in many towns across the country...dont under estimate the power of WhatsApp.

That was day 1.. 14 more days to go.

On the bright side, stuff can be done around the house and perfect time to diet some....

Sent from my Honor 8X

The EU does not know how to manage things then...
 
The EU does not know how to manage things then...
The governments and medical personnel in every member state are doing their best to protect the people according to our most reliable knowledge. Perhaps you cannot get news about the European Union where you live.
 
There is no reason to believe anything from China.
 
The governments and medical personnel in every member state are doing their best to protect the people according to our most reliable knowledge. Perhaps you cannot get news about the European Union where you live.

Fake news. The EU sucks during crisises
 
what about Norway, is that spreading wrong information
Sorry; I have no idea what you mean. I do know that the Russians are trying to sow division with the European Union in order to undermine its value for European citizens. I suppose it is a similar tactic to what is used against Americans. It appears that the current Russian kleptocracy yearns for the old Soviet empire when Russia was a superpower. They believe they can only succeed by attempting to tear apart other political and social systems. It is a tragedy.
 
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TBH I dont think so... why? We have TONS.. well had, tons of Chinese tourists here on the Costa, and yet the Spanish spread came from Italy to Madrid and for some reason the Basque country.

Also think of it a bit more... what is more likely that a tourist from Wuhan, a relatively poor place in China, but a big industrial area... that they brought it here, or business people travelling back and fourth brought it? Maybe a combo, but I suspect more that it was business men/women that brought the spread to Italy.

Or the virus has been here far far longer than we know.

On the counterpoint - China is Africa's biggest business partner and plenty of Chinese businessmen have travelled to Africa. Same with Australia. Numbers of cases on those two continents is still very low.
 
Or the virus has been here far far longer than we know.

That had also occurred to me, but then I have to question, if it has been here for a while, then why weren't the hospitals experiencing unusual amounts of patients with unusual respiratory symptoms way before?

Even if it were mistaken for the flu, the higher number (than usual) of aggressive respiratory symptoms would have been enough to raise concern.
 
On the counterpoint - China is Africa's biggest business partner and plenty of Chinese businessmen have travelled to Africa. Same with Australia. Numbers of cases on those two continents is still very low.

I truly shudder to think of Africa IF this virus gets a grip there.
 
That had also occurred to me, but then I have to question, if it has been here for a while, then why weren't the hospitals experiencing unusual amounts of patients with unusual respiratory symptoms way before?

Even if it were mistaken for the flu, the higher number (than usual) of aggressive respiratory symptoms would have been enough to raise concern.
Takes a while to realize and if you ain't testing for it then you don't know.

Moscow doctors are reporting a surge in influenza patients with breathing problems, but so far are not testing for the Trump virus.

Also those that usually are admitted with influenza, they usually have preexisting conditions. Take the first reported death in Spain. He had preexisting lung issues, so when he died they chalked it off to that and the flu.. This was in early February. When the **** hit the fan, they went back and tested him and found the Trump virus...2 plus weeks after his death.

So we know it was here in early February and was spreading locally by then since this guy had not been to Italy or China.

Sent from my Honor 8X
 
On the counterpoint - China is Africa's biggest business partner and plenty of Chinese businessmen have travelled to Africa. Same with Australia. Numbers of cases on those two continents is still very low.
Counter counter point. Australia is a big tourist hot-spot for Chinese tourists.



Sent from my Honor 8X
 
Counter counter point. Australia is a big tourist hot-spot for Chinese tourists.

That tourism is because of business links. Australia survived the 2008 crunch because of huge mineral deals and trade with China. Australia is now a huge producer of beef for the Chinese domestic market.

I truly shudder to think of Africa IF this virus gets a grip there.

I somehow don't think it will - age seems to play a huge part in mortality. The average age across all Africa is very low. This is one virus that tends to spare the young.
 
Meanwhile the gubmint here will introduce a bill into parliament to prolong the current lockdown by a further 15 days, taking it to Apr-12.
 
Meanwhile the gubmint here will introduce a bill into parliament to prolong the current lockdown by a further 15 days, taking it to Apr-12.
Was expecting that. We should hopefully soon start to see a downward trend on infections, but adding at least another week or two to the lockdown is a good idea.

Sent from my Honor 8X
 
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