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Thread: Do we bring back Imprisonment for Public Protection (IPP) sentences?

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    Do we bring back Imprisonment for Public Protection (IPP) sentences?

    More than 93,000 suspected violent criminals and sex offenders have been released without restrictions by police in England and Wales since 2017, figures obtained by BBC Newsnight show. Link.
    This week, with the sentencing of Joseph McCann, we see the utter failure of public safety and policing over an extended period of time. This also includes the decision to Usman Khan to travel unsupervised to London where he killed two and injured many more. Joseph McCann was repeatedly let out of prison where he finally went on a rape spree earlier this year to attack and rape several women and a young girl.
    While in prison, he had parole refused 3 times and then, like a premeditated paedophile who carefully and meticulously grooms his victims - he put himself onto 3 different rehabilitation courses so that he could be released.

    Certainly we need a root and branch review of sentencing - Imprisonment for Public Protection (IPP) sentences need to be brought back and the parole system reviewed (including training and funding). Ironic that many claim Sadiq Khan has supported terrorism / islamist causes when he has been at the forefront of challenging early release of sex offenders.
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    Re: Do we bring back Imprisonment for Public Protection (IPP) sentences?

    To the question posed in the thread title:

    YES!!

    unequivocally.
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    Re: Do we bring back Imprisonment for Public Protection (IPP) sentences?

    Problem as I see it with IPP, is how qthe legal foundations are lane. Case in point, Andres Brevik in Norway.

    The Norwegian life sentence is 22 years, but Norway like most Scandinavian countries have a IPP system. So after 22 years Brevik goes in front of a panel of experts who the recommends to the courts or justice minister (cant remember which) on potential danger to the public. A decision is then made to hold him for another 4 to 6 years. Then the process happens again. In Breviks case he aint gonna be released period.

    Point is the UK governments have a bad history of abusing its powers when it comes to targeting people for political reasons and not following the law. Hence if IPP was to be put back, there would have to be a checks and balances situation to prevent abuse. I doubt the UK wants another Abu Hamza ir what ever that guys name was.

    Else I am all for IPP.

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    Re: Do we bring back Imprisonment for Public Protection (IPP) sentences?

    Quote Originally Posted by PeteEU View Post
    ~ Point is the UK governments have a bad history of abusing its powers when it comes to targeting people for political reasons and not following the law ~
    If you look at the McCann story, I was the complete opposite of abuse of power to keep someone in. That level of repeat incompetence was just sickening.
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    Re: Do we bring back Imprisonment for Public Protection (IPP) sentences?

    Quote Originally Posted by Infinite Chaos View Post
    If you look at the McCann story, I was the complete opposite of abuse of power to keep someone in. That level of repeat incompetence was just sickening.
    Well considering who is in power, then that is not exactly new. It is kinda funny when you look objectively at the most incompetent corrupt UK governments, it is almost always the Tories in power. Read a story today about when the Tory government destroyed the UK rail system. The minister behind it, owned a construction company who got mega government contracts afterwards to build new roads... hmmmz.
    PeteEU

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    Re: Do we bring back Imprisonment for Public Protection (IPP) sentences?

    Quote Originally Posted by PeteEU View Post
    ~ it is almost always the Tories in power ~
    There is a special variety of Conservative who this applies too. You might have seen a Dominic Cummings video circulating about how Conservative MPs don't care about ordinary people and don't care about the NHS. Well, he does clarify that it only applies to certain types.

    I can never defend them, much as I suppose if I voted Labour regularly, I could never support the Momentum / Militant types.
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    Re: Do we bring back Imprisonment for Public Protection (IPP) sentences?

    Quote Originally Posted by Infinite Chaos View Post
    This week, with the sentencing of Joseph McCann, we see the utter failure of public safety and policing over an extended period of time. This also includes the decision to Usman Khan to travel unsupervised to London where he killed two and injured many more. Joseph McCann was repeatedly let out of prison where he finally went on a rape spree earlier this year to attack and rape several women and a young girl.
    While in prison, he had parole refused 3 times and then, like a premeditated paedophile who carefully and meticulously grooms his victims - he put himself onto 3 different rehabilitation courses so that he could be released.

    Certainly we need a root and branch review of sentencing - Imprisonment for Public Protection (IPP) sentences need to be brought back and the parole system reviewed (including training and funding). Ironic that many claim Sadiq Khan has supported terrorism / islamist causes when he has been at the forefront of challenging early release of sex offenders.
    Infinite Chaos:

    Will IPPs be used on the right people? After their adoption in 2003 their use expanded rapidly to all sorts of criminal cases where there was no realistic threat of violence by the convicted person to the public.

    Where will the UK put IPP sentenced prisoners if the policy is reinstated and its use once again explodes. UK prisons are already over-crowded and this proposed reinstatement of the policy would only make overcrowding worse.

    Is it just to imprison a criminal after their sentence is complete for what they might do? If a prisoner/convict displays indicators that they might be prone to violent reoffending, then wouldn't it be wiser to have the prisoner/convict sectioned as a pathological mental patient rather than using IPPs, which are fundamentally unjust perversions of the law.

    IPPs are inherently dangerous because they give the state the power to set aside the law and sentencing parameters based on what a person might do, rather than what they have done. If that's the way the UK wants to go then just open up H-Blocks all over the British Isles and don't even bother with the rule of law. Use preventative detention on anyone who might commit a violent crime. That is hyperbolic of course but sometimes a bit of hyperbole is useful in focusing attention on core principles of the Rule of Law. Is the justice system there to punish crimes already committed or is it there to prevent crimes which might happen? Is this about consequences for violently anti-social acts or is it about social engineering a paranoid society where minor crimes can mushroom into life-long sentences. Why not dust off Tyburn Hill and hang the bastards for stealing bread while they're still minors? Yes, more hyperbole but with a point about where this is trending.

    https://researchbriefings.files.parl...86/SN06086.pdf

    Cheers.
    Evilroddy.
    "At the heart of quantum mechanics is a rule that sometimes governs politicians or CEOs - as long as no one is watching, anything goes.
    ― Lawrence M. Krauss

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