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Thread: London Bridge Knife Attacks - Terrorism or Multiple Murder?

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    London Bridge Knife Attacks - Terrorism or Multiple Murder?

    Definition of terrorism in the UK:

    Terrorism is an action or threat designed to influence the government or intimidate the public. Its purpose is to advance a political, religious or ideological cause. The current UK definition of terrorism is given in the Terrorism Act 2006.
    From: Terrorism Definition UK - What is Terrorism?

    Were the knife attacks perpetrated by Usman Khan near London Bridge on Friday an act of terror or an act of multiple murder/attempted murder? Was there a political motive behind the alleged killer's actions and a desire to effect societal change by his violence or was he acting out of madness or unfocused rage and malice to just kill and alarm as many people as he could? was his wearing of a fake explosive vest an act of terror or a desire to be killed by authorities in a bid for suicide by copper?

    It would no doubt be easier to answer these question had the authorities not shot the alleged knifer dead, but they did, so the question is open for debate. If the killer was a frustrated Brexiteer from Crewe, with a criminal record of violence and born of English stock with clear ties to an organisation like UKIP, would the media have immediately branded this an act of terrorism?

    Certainly the attacker had a history of terrorist connections and a conviction for terrorist offenses in the past. But one of the men who stopped the knifer, disarmed him and restrained him until armed police shot the knife attacker dead was a murderer out on release. Was that man a hero or a violent criminal assaulting a person (based on his past conviction)?

    So the question is was Usman Khan's knife attack spree an act of terror or simply an act of criminal violence and multiple murder?

    I say it has not yet risen to the level of terrorism based on the information available at this time since there seems to be no political motive for the violence.

    What say you?

    Cheers.
    Evilroddy.
    Last edited by Evilroddy; 12-01-19 at 01:31 AM.
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    Re: London Bridge Knife Attacks - Terrorism or Multiple Murder?

    Quote Originally Posted by Evilroddy View Post
    Were the knife attacks perpetrated by Usman Khan near London Bridge on Friday an act of terror or an act of multiple murder/attempted murder? Was there a political motive behind the alleged killer's actions and a desire to effect societal change by his violence or was he acting out of madness or unfocused rage and malice to just kill and alarm as many people as he could? was his wearing of a fake explosive vest an act of terror or a desire to be killed by authorities in a bid for suicide by copper?

    It would no doubt be easier to answer these question had the authorities not shot the alleged knifer dead, but they did, so the question is open for debate. If the killer was a frustrated Brexiteer from Crewe, with a criminal record of violence and born of English stock with clear ties to an organisation like UKIP, would the media have immediately branded this an act of terrorism?

    Certainly the attacker had a history of terrorist connections and a conviction for terrorist offenses in the past. But one of the men who stopped the knifer, disarmed him and restrained him until armed police shot the knife attacker dead was a murderer out on release. Was that man a hero or a violent criminal assaulting a person (based on his past conviction)?

    So the question is was Usman Khan's knife attack spree an act of terror or simply an act of criminal violence and multiple murder?

    I say it has not yet risen to the level of terrorism based on the information available at this time since there seems to be no political motive for the violence.

    What say you?

    Cheers.
    Evilroddy.
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    Re: London Bridge Knife Attacks - Terrorism or Multiple Murder?

    It's entirely possible that this was just another freak like we have shooting up schools.

    There doesn't actually have to be a reason.
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    Re: London Bridge Knife Attacks - Terrorism or Multiple Murder?

    Quote Originally Posted by Evilroddy View Post
    Definition of terrorism in the UK:



    From: Terrorism Definition UK - What is Terrorism?

    Were the knife attacks perpetrated by Usman Khan near London Bridge on Friday an act of terror or an act of multiple murder/attempted murder? Was there a political motive behind the alleged killer's actions and a desire to effect societal change by his violence or was he acting out of madness or unfocused rage and malice to just kill and alarm as many people as he could? was his wearing of a fake explosive vest an act of terror or a desire to be killed by authorities in a bid for suicide by copper?

    It would no doubt be easier to answer these question had the authorities not shot the alleged knifer dead, but they did, so the question is open for debate. If the killer was a frustrated Brexiteer from Crewe, with a criminal record of violence and born of English stock with clear ties to an organisation like UKIP, would the media have immediately branded this an act of terrorism?

    Certainly the attacker had a history of terrorist connections and a conviction for terrorist offenses in the past. But one of the men who stopped the knifer, disarmed him and restrained him until armed police shot the knife attacker dead was a murderer out on release. Was that man a hero or a violent criminal assaulting a person (based on his past conviction)?

    So the question is was Usman Khan's knife attack spree an act of terror or simply an act of criminal violence and multiple murder?

    I say it has not yet risen to the level of terrorism based on the information available at this time since there seems to be no political motive for the violence.

    What say you?

    Cheers.
    Evilroddy.
    This is not unlike asking if a violent neo-Nazi beats up and murders his girlfriend who he thinks is cheating on him, is it an act of white supremacist terror, or is it an act of domestic violence? Because you are right to point out that sometimes violence committed by otherwise violent and fanatical ideologues does not have an ideological motivation behind it. Sometimes a fascist attacks someone because they are a perceived racial enemy, and sometimes they attack someone for swerving in ahead of them and stealing their parking space. One has to look at the totality of the circumstances to make the determination. Based on the man's criminal history, political and religious affiliations, the violent Islamist ideology he adhered to, and the manner in which the attack was carried out (taking time to wear a fake suicide vest typically associated with Islamist terrorists), I would not hesitate to declare this an act of terror.
    Last edited by Felis Leo; 12-01-19 at 02:14 AM.
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    Re: London Bridge Knife Attacks - Terrorism or Multiple Murder?

    Quote Originally Posted by Evilroddy View Post
    Definition of terrorism in the UK:



    From: Terrorism Definition UK - What is Terrorism?

    Were the knife attacks perpetrated by Usman Khan near London Bridge on Friday an act of terror or an act of multiple murder/attempted murder? Was there a political motive behind the alleged killer's actions and a desire to effect societal change by his violence or was he acting out of madness or unfocused rage and malice to just kill and alarm as many people as he could? was his wearing of a fake explosive vest an act of terror or a desire to be killed by authorities in a bid for suicide by copper?

    It would no doubt be easier to answer these question had the authorities not shot the alleged knifer dead, but they did, so the question is open for debate. If the killer was a frustrated Brexiteer from Crewe, with a criminal record of violence and born of English stock with clear ties to an organisation like UKIP, would the media have immediately branded this an act of terrorism?

    Certainly the attacker had a history of terrorist connections and a conviction for terrorist offenses in the past. But one of the men who stopped the knifer, disarmed him and restrained him until armed police shot the knife attacker dead was a murderer out on release. Was that man a hero or a violent criminal assaulting a person (based on his past conviction)?

    So the question is was Usman Khan's knife attack spree an act of terror or simply an act of criminal violence and multiple murder?

    I say it has not yet risen to the level of terrorism based on the information available at this time since there seems to be no political motive for the violence.

    What say you?

    Cheers.
    Evilroddy.
    According to American black Muslims the attack was not related to Muslim jihadism.

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    Re: London Bridge Knife Attacks - Terrorism or Multiple Murder?

    Terrorism - intending to scare people into submission.
    Mass Murder - just a freak event when one goes crazy.

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    Re: London Bridge Knife Attacks - Terrorism or Multiple Murder?

    At the end of the day it doesn't matter what it's labelled as. It's not going to bring them back or make their deaths more horrific.

    Investigate, learn from any mistakes that are made and take necessary measures to prevent something similar happening again where possible.

    Who can remember Brendon Cox, (Jo's husband), speaking after the Westminster terrorist attack? He pretty much parroted what I have been saying for years. He stressed that it was important to remember the victims, and not the assailant, and stated that he is going to do whatever he can to remember the names of the victims and not the name of the terrorist.

    "Whoever has attacked our parliament for whatever motive, will not succeed in dividing us." (His words.)

    He's right you know.
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    Re: London Bridge Knife Attacks - Terrorism or Multiple Murder?

    Quote Originally Posted by Evilroddy View Post
    ~ So the question is was Usman Khan's knife attack spree an act of terror or simply an act of criminal violence and multiple murder?

    I say it has not yet risen to the level of terrorism based on the information available at this time since there seems to be no political motive for the violence.

    What say you?
    While we have no specific "political" statements from him yet, a "terrorist" in the truest sense commits crime outside of the normal rules of war (especially targeting citizens rather than military opponents). The investigation continues and in these moments of the aftermath, I prefer to think of the heroism of ordinary citizens who disarmed him and his unfortunate victims who went to that conference with the truest ideals.

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    Re: London Bridge Knife Attacks - Terrorism or Multiple Murder?

    Quote Originally Posted by Evilroddy View Post
    Definition of terrorism in the UK:



    From: Terrorism Definition UK - What is Terrorism?

    Were the knife attacks perpetrated by Usman Khan near London Bridge on Friday an act of terror or an act of multiple murder/attempted murder? Was there a political motive behind the alleged killer's actions and a desire to effect societal change by his violence or was he acting out of madness or unfocused rage and malice to just kill and alarm as many people as he could? was his wearing of a fake explosive vest an act of terror or a desire to be killed by authorities in a bid for suicide by copper?

    It would no doubt be easier to answer these question had the authorities not shot the alleged knifer dead, but they did, so the question is open for debate. If the killer was a frustrated Brexiteer from Crewe, with a criminal record of violence and born of English stock with clear ties to an organisation like UKIP, would the media have immediately branded this an act of terrorism?

    Certainly the attacker had a history of terrorist connections and a conviction for terrorist offenses in the past. But one of the men who stopped the knifer, disarmed him and restrained him until armed police shot the knife attacker dead was a murderer out on release. Was that man a hero or a violent criminal assaulting a person (based on his past conviction)?

    So the question is was Usman Khan's knife attack spree an act of terror or simply an act of criminal violence and multiple murder?

    I say it has not yet risen to the level of terrorism based on the information available at this time since there seems to be no political motive for the violence.

    What say you?

    Cheers.
    Evilroddy.
    This should clear up your confusion:

    BREAKING:#ISIS claims #LondonBridgeAttack via #Amaq– calling perp an "Islamic State fighter," despite comm. setbacks. The claim itself is not surprising, as the attack bore IS-inspired hallmarks-though coming only 1 day after shows cont'd media capabilityhttps://t.co/13AT9R2GrW pic.twitter.com/tCt3suZypS

    — Rita Katz (@Rita_Katz) November 30, 2019


    btw, there could be more terrorist attacks coming.

    Usman Khan was convicted of plotting to blow up the Stock Exchange. Five of his convicted accomplices are also now on parole.

    Mo Chowdhury – RELEASED
    Shah Rahman – RELEASED
    Gurukanth Desai – RELEASED
    Omar Latif – RELEASED
    Nazam Hussain – Release 2020
    Mohibur Rahman – RELEASED pic.twitter.com/Ot8Agkjcoq

    — Old Holborn ✘ (@Holbornlolz) November 30, 2019
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    Re: London Bridge Knife Attacks - Terrorism or Multiple Murder?

    Quote Originally Posted by Serenity View Post
    At the end of the day it doesn't matter what it's labelled as. It's not going to bring them back or make their deaths more horrific.

    Investigate, learn from any mistakes that are made and take necessary measures to prevent something similar happening again where possible.

    Who can remember Brendon Cox, (Jo's husband), speaking after the Westminster terrorist attack? He pretty much parroted what I have been saying for years. He stressed that it was important to remember the victims, and not the assailant, and stated that he is going to do whatever he can to remember the names of the victims and not the name of the terrorist.

    "Whoever has attacked our parliament for whatever motive, will not succeed in dividing us." (His words.)

    He's right you know.
    Serenity:

    A thoughtful and empassioned post IMO. Thank you. Taking into account the words of Mr. Cox, does a society immediately assuming that a Muslim man attacking others in a public place must be an act of terrorism not divide the UK population along religious and ethnic lines? Perceived reality often depends on the labels we assign to historical events in the moment. Are we making history or recording it when a society jumps to conclusions which soon calcify into historical "facts"?

    Cheers.
    Evilroddy.
    "At the heart of quantum mechanics is a rule that sometimes governs politicians or CEOs - as long as no one is watching, anything goes.”
    ― Lawrence M. Krauss

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