London Bridge Knife Attacks - Terrorism or Multiple Murder?

Terrorism is an action or threat designed to influence the government or intimidate the public. Its purpose is to advance a political, religious or ideological cause. The current UK definition of terrorism is given in the Terrorism Act 2006.

Click to expand...

Evilroddy said:

Were the knife attacks perpetrated by Usman Khan near London Bridge on Friday an act of terror or an act of multiple murder/attempted murder? Was there a political motive behind the alleged killer's actions and a desire to effect societal change by his violence or was he acting out of madness or unfocused rage and malice to just kill and alarm as many people as he could? was his wearing of a fake explosive vest an act of terror or a desire to be killed by authorities in a bid for suicide by copper?

It would no doubt be easier to answer these question had the authorities not shot the alleged knifer dead, but they did, so the question is open for debate. If the killer was a frustrated Brexiteer from Crewe, with a criminal record of violence and born of English stock with clear ties to an organisation like UKIP, would the media have immediately branded this an act of terrorism?

Certainly the attacker had a history of terrorist connections and a conviction for terrorist offenses in the past. But one of the men who stopped the knifer, disarmed him and restrained him until armed police shot the knife attacker dead was a murderer out on release. Was that man a hero or a violent criminal assaulting a person (based on his past conviction)?

So the question is was Usman Khan's knife attack spree an act of terror or simply an act of criminal violence and multiple murder?

I say it has not yet risen to the level of terrorism based on the information available at this time since there seems to be no political motive for the violence.

What say you?

Cheers.
Evilroddy.

Click to expand...

Evilroddy said:

Definition of terrorism in the UK:



From: Terrorism Definition UK - What is Terrorism?

Were the knife attacks perpetrated by Usman Khan near London Bridge on Friday an act of terror or an act of multiple murder/attempted murder? Was there a political motive behind the alleged killer's actions and a desire to effect societal change by his violence or was he acting out of madness or unfocused rage and malice to just kill and alarm as many people as he could? was his wearing of a fake explosive vest an act of terror or a desire to be killed by authorities in a bid for suicide by copper?

It would no doubt be easier to answer these question had the authorities not shot the alleged knifer dead, but they did, so the question is open for debate. If the killer was a frustrated Brexiteer from Crewe, with a criminal record of violence and born of English stock with clear ties to an organisation like UKIP, would the media have immediately branded this an act of terrorism?

Certainly the attacker had a history of terrorist connections and a conviction for terrorist offenses in the past. But one of the men who stopped the knifer, disarmed him and restrained him until armed police shot the knife attacker dead was a murderer out on release. Was that man a hero or a violent criminal assaulting a person (based on his past conviction)?

So the question is was Usman Khan's knife attack spree an act of terror or simply an act of criminal violence and multiple murder?

I say it has not yet risen to the level of terrorism based on the information available at this time since there seems to be no political motive for the violence.

What say you?

Cheers.
Evilroddy.

Click to expand...

Evilroddy said:

Definition of terrorism in the UK:



From: Terrorism Definition UK - What is Terrorism?

Were the knife attacks perpetrated by Usman Khan near London Bridge on Friday an act of terror or an act of multiple murder/attempted murder? Was there a political motive behind the alleged killer's actions and a desire to effect societal change by his violence or was he acting out of madness or unfocused rage and malice to just kill and alarm as many people as he could? was his wearing of a fake explosive vest an act of terror or a desire to be killed by authorities in a bid for suicide by copper?

It would no doubt be easier to answer these question had the authorities not shot the alleged knifer dead, but they did, so the question is open for debate. If the killer was a frustrated Brexiteer from Crewe, with a criminal record of violence and born of English stock with clear ties to an organisation like UKIP, would the media have immediately branded this an act of terrorism?

Certainly the attacker had a history of terrorist connections and a conviction for terrorist offenses in the past. But one of the men who stopped the knifer, disarmed him and restrained him until armed police shot the knife attacker dead was a murderer out on release. Was that man a hero or a violent criminal assaulting a person (based on his past conviction)?

So the question is was Usman Khan's knife attack spree an act of terror or simply an act of criminal violence and multiple murder?

I say it has not yet risen to the level of terrorism based on the information available at this time since there seems to be no political motive for the violence.

What say you?

Cheers.
Evilroddy.

Click to expand...

Evilroddy said:

~ So the question is was Usman Khan's knife attack spree an act of terror or simply an act of criminal violence and multiple murder?

I say it has not yet risen to the level of terrorism based on the information available at this time since there seems to be no political motive for the violence.

What say you?

Click to expand...

Evilroddy said:

Definition of terrorism in the UK:



From: Terrorism Definition UK - What is Terrorism?

Were the knife attacks perpetrated by Usman Khan near London Bridge on Friday an act of terror or an act of multiple murder/attempted murder? Was there a political motive behind the alleged killer's actions and a desire to effect societal change by his violence or was he acting out of madness or unfocused rage and malice to just kill and alarm as many people as he could? was his wearing of a fake explosive vest an act of terror or a desire to be killed by authorities in a bid for suicide by copper?

It would no doubt be easier to answer these question had the authorities not shot the alleged knifer dead, but they did, so the question is open for debate. If the killer was a frustrated Brexiteer from Crewe, with a criminal record of violence and born of English stock with clear ties to an organisation like UKIP, would the media have immediately branded this an act of terrorism?

Certainly the attacker had a history of terrorist connections and a conviction for terrorist offenses in the past. But one of the men who stopped the knifer, disarmed him and restrained him until armed police shot the knife attacker dead was a murderer out on release. Was that man a hero or a violent criminal assaulting a person (based on his past conviction)?

So the question is was Usman Khan's knife attack spree an act of terror or simply an act of criminal violence and multiple murder?

I say it has not yet risen to the level of terrorism based on the information available at this time since there seems to be no political motive for the violence.

What say you?

Cheers.
Evilroddy.

Click to expand...

Serenity said:

At the end of the day it doesn't matter what it's labelled as. It's not going to bring them back or make their deaths more horrific.

Investigate, learn from any mistakes that are made and take necessary measures to prevent something similar happening again where possible.

Who can remember Brendon Cox, (Jo's husband), speaking after the Westminster terrorist attack? He pretty much parroted what I have been saying for years. He stressed that it was important to remember the victims, and not the assailant, and stated that he is going to do whatever he can to remember the names of the victims and not the name of the terrorist.

"Whoever has attacked our parliament for whatever motive, will not succeed in dividing us." (His words.)

He's right you know.

Click to expand...

Felis Leo said:

This is not unlike asking if a violent neo-Nazi beats up and murders his girlfriend who he thinks is cheating on him, is it an act of white supremacist terror, or is it an act of domestic violence? Because you are right to point out that sometimes violence committed by otherwise violent and fanatical ideologues does not have an ideological motivation behind it. Sometimes a fascist attacks someone because they are a perceived racial enemy, and sometimes they attack someone for swerving in ahead of them and stealing their parking space. One has to look at the totality of the circumstances to make the determination. Based on the man's criminal history, political and religious affiliations, the violent Islamist ideology he adhered to, and the manner in which the attack was carried out (taking time to wear a fake suicide vest typically associated with Islamist terrorists), I would not hesitate to declare this an act of terror.

Click to expand...

Mycroft said:

This should clear up your confusion:

BREAKING:#ISIS claims #LondonBridgeAttack via #Amaq– calling perp an "Islamic State fighter," despite comm. setbacks. The claim itself is not surprising, as the attack bore IS-inspired hallmarks-though coming only 1 day after shows cont'd media capabilityhttps://t.co/13AT9R2GrW pic.twitter.com/tCt3suZypS

— Rita Katz (@Rita_Katz) November 30, 2019​

btw, there could be more terrorist attacks coming.

Usman Khan was convicted of plotting to blow up the Stock Exchange. Five of his convicted accomplices are also now on parole.

Mo Chowdhury – RELEASED
Shah Rahman – RELEASED
Gurukanth Desai – RELEASED
Omar Latif – RELEASED
Nazam Hussain – Release 2020
Mohibur Rahman – RELEASED pic.twitter.com/Ot8Agkjcoq

— Old Holborn ✘ (@Holbornlolz) November 30, 2019​

Click to expand...

Evilroddy said:

Definition of terrorism in the UK:



From: Terrorism Definition UK - What is Terrorism?

Were the knife attacks perpetrated by Usman Khan near London Bridge on Friday an act of terror or an act of multiple murder/attempted murder? Was there a political motive behind the alleged killer's actions and a desire to effect societal change by his violence or was he acting out of madness or unfocused rage and malice to just kill and alarm as many people as he could? was his wearing of a fake explosive vest an act of terror or a desire to be killed by authorities in a bid for suicide by copper?

It would no doubt be easier to answer these question had the authorities not shot the alleged knifer dead, but they did, so the question is open for debate. If the killer was a frustrated Brexiteer from Crewe, with a criminal record of violence and born of English stock with clear ties to an organisation like UKIP, would the media have immediately branded this an act of terrorism?

Certainly the attacker had a history of terrorist connections and a conviction for terrorist offenses in the past. But one of the men who stopped the knifer, disarmed him and restrained him until armed police shot the knife attacker dead was a murderer out on release. Was that man a hero or a violent criminal assaulting a person (based on his past conviction)?

So the question is was Usman Khan's knife attack spree an act of terror or simply an act of criminal violence and multiple murder?

I say it has not yet risen to the level of terrorism based on the information available at this time since there seems to be no political motive for the violence.

What say you?

Cheers.
Evilroddy.

Click to expand...

Hamish Howl said:

It's entirely possible that this was just another freak like we have shooting up schools.

There doesn't actually have to be a reason.

Click to expand...

Felis Leo said:

This is not unlike asking if a violent neo-Nazi beats up and murders his girlfriend who he thinks is cheating on him, is it an act of white supremacist terror, or is it an act of domestic violence? Because you are right to point out that sometimes violence committed by otherwise violent and fanatical ideologues does not have an ideological motivation behind it. Sometimes a fascist attacks someone because they are a perceived racial enemy, and sometimes they attack someone for swerving in ahead of them and stealing their parking space. One has to look at the totality of the circumstances to make the determination. Based on the man's criminal history, political and religious affiliations, the violent Islamist ideology he adhered to, and the manner in which the attack was carried out (taking time to wear a fake suicide vest typically associated with Islamist terrorists), I would not hesitate to declare this an act of terror.

Click to expand...

truthatallcost said:

The reason why footage exists of the struggle between Khan and the men who disarmed him, is because Usman Khan tied a large butcher knife to each of his wrists before the attack, and it took several men to hold him down and remove the knives. The terrorists who killed 8 people on the London bridge in 2017, also tied knives to their wrists.

The attack was premeditated
The attacker was a convicted Islamic terrorist
He mimicked other Islamic terrorist's actions
He's an Islamic terrorist.

Click to expand...

stevecanuck said:

Looks like, walks like, quacks like.

Those who want to pretend this may not have been an Islamist attack are the some people who pretend Islam is a religion of peace that has been "hijacked". The Qur'an and Mohamed turned Islam into a warrior religion starting with verse 2:190.

Click to expand...

ThirdTerm said:

Two University of Cambridge graduates, Jack Merritt and Saskia Jones, had been at a conference of the Learning Together prison programme affiliated with the university. Khan only killed the conference organizers rather than random passersby on the bridge and others were wounded while intervening in the incident to restrain him. The two victims did master's degrees in criminology and they took the risk to invite a convicted terrorist to the conference, which turned out to be a grave mistake. The University of Cambridge said the programme "has broken down prejudices and created new possibilities for all of those who took part".

London Bridge attack: Saskia Jones and Jack Merritt's families lead tributes - BBC News

Click to expand...

stevecanuck said:

Looks like, walks like, quacks like.

Those who want to pretend this may not have been an Islamist attack are the some people who pretend Islam is a religion of peace that has been "hijacked". The Qur'an and Mohamed turned Islam into a warrior religion starting with verse 2:190.

Click to expand...

stevecanuck said:

Looks like, walks like, quacks like.

Those who want to pretend this may not have been an Islamist attack are the some people who pretend Islam is a religion of peace that has been "hijacked". The Qur'an and Mohamed turned Islam into a warrior religion starting with verse 2:190.

Click to expand...

Evilroddy said:

Definition of terrorism in the UK:



From: Terrorism Definition UK - What is Terrorism?

Were the knife attacks perpetrated by Usman Khan near London Bridge on Friday an act of terror or an act of multiple murder/attempted murder? Was there a political motive behind the alleged killer's actions and a desire to effect societal change by his violence or was he acting out of madness or unfocused rage and malice to just kill and alarm as many people as he could? was his wearing of a fake explosive vest an act of terror or a desire to be killed by authorities in a bid for suicide by copper?

It would no doubt be easier to answer these question had the authorities not shot the alleged knifer dead, but they did, so the question is open for debate. If the killer was a frustrated Brexiteer from Crewe, with a criminal record of violence and born of English stock with clear ties to an organisation like UKIP, would the media have immediately branded this an act of terrorism?

Certainly the attacker had a history of terrorist connections and a conviction for terrorist offenses in the past. But one of the men who stopped the knifer, disarmed him and restrained him until armed police shot the knife attacker dead was a murderer out on release. Was that man a hero or a violent criminal assaulting a person (based on his past conviction)?

So the question is was Usman Khan's knife attack spree an act of terror or simply an act of criminal violence and multiple murder?

I say it has not yet risen to the level of terrorism based on the information available at this time since there seems to be no political motive for the violence.

What say you?

Cheers.
Evilroddy.

Click to expand...

Evilroddy said:

Serenity:

A thoughtful and empassioned post IMO. Thank you. Taking into account the words of Mr. Cox, does a society immediately assuming that a Muslim man attacking others in a public place must be an act of terrorism not divide the UK population along religious and ethnic lines? Perceived reality often depends on the labels we assign to historical events in the moment. Are we making history or recording it when a society jumps to conclusions which soon calcify into historical "facts"?

Cheers.
Evilroddy.

Click to expand...

Serenity said:

A section of society will always be divided because they already hold bigoted views. For the many benefits that can be associated with Social Media, there are terrible negatives too. So many vulnerable people are targeted by various social media platforms and the digital environment with hateful propaganda. The ease of access to incorrect information and the speed at which incorrect information is shared, is very hard to counter. This is the world we live in unfortunately.

All we can do is stay true to ourselves and speak out when we see instances of unacceptable broad brushing. It's completely reasonable to refer to this as highly likely an act of terrorism based on the information to hand. It's not OK to somehow try and associate those actions to Muslims in general.

That's my position.

Click to expand...

truthatallcost said:

The reason why footage exists of the struggle between Khan and the men who disarmed him, is because Usman Khan tied a large butcher knife to each of his wrists before the attack, and it took several men to hold him down and remove the knives. The terrorists who killed 8 people on the London bridge in 2017, also tied knives to their wrists.

The attack was premeditated
The attacker was a convicted Islamic terrorist
He mimicked other Islamic terrorist's actions
He's an Islamic terrorist.

Click to expand...

marke said:

Some brainwashing is permanent and cannot be cured by rehabilitation efforts.

Click to expand...