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Thread: London Bridge Knife Attacks - Terrorism or Multiple Murder?

  1. #41
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    Re: London Bridge Knife Attacks - Terrorism or Multiple Murder?

    Quote Originally Posted by Evilroddy View Post
    OFG:

    Thank you for using the broadest of brushes upon all Muslims and their faith to make your incendiary and clearly prejudicial point.

    Evilroddy.
    Here are some specific examples of how the Qur'an uses the broadest of brushes upon all non-Muslims and their faith to make its incendiary and clearly prejudicial point:

    - 7:176*"A person who follows his own lust is like a dog: if you attack him he pants with his tongue out, and if you leave him he pants with his tongue out. Such is the likeness of people who deny Our verses"
    - 7:179*"They [unbelievers] are worse than lost cattle"
    - 70:42*"So leave them to plunge in vain talk and play about, until they meet their Day which they are promised"
    - 80:42*"they who are unbelievers, the wicked"
    - 39:32*"Who, then, doth more wrong than one who utters a lie concerning Allah, and rejects the Truth when it comes to him; is there not in Hell an abode for blasphemers"?
    - 40:10*"The disbelievers will be told, 'God's hatred towards you is much greater than your hatred of your own selves'".
    - 7:177*"How evil an example are people who denied Our signs and used to wrong themselves"
    - 19:86*"and drive the evildoers [followers of Satan] into Hell"
    - 19:88-89*"They say: "(Allah) Most Gracious has begotten a son.*Indeed ye have put forth a thing most monstrous"!
    - 41:26-28 "The Unbelievers say: 'Listen not to this Qur'an, but talk at random in the midst of its (reading), that you may gain the upper hand'.*But We will certainly give the Unbelievers a taste of a severe Penalty, and We will requite them for the worst of their deeds.*That is the reward of Allah's enemies: the Fire. Therein is their immortal home, payment forasmuch as they denied Our revelations".

    There are many hundreds of such verses. The denigration of non-Muslims is relentless. There's your broad brush.
    - See something, say something, get called an Islamophobe.
    - The absence of hostilities does not prove the absence of hostility.
    - Legitimate criticism is neither hate speech, phobic, nor incitement to commit violence.
    - I choose my words very, very, VERY carefully. - Jordan Peterson.

  2. #42
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    Re: London Bridge Knife Attacks - Terrorism or Multiple Murder?

    Quote Originally Posted by stevecanuck View Post
    Here are some specific examples of how the Qur'an uses the broadest of brushes upon all non-Muslims and their faith to make its incendiary and clearly prejudicial point:

    - 7:176*"A person who follows his own lust is like a dog: if you attack him he pants with his tongue out, and if you leave him he pants with his tongue out. Such is the likeness of people who deny Our verses"
    - 7:179*"They [unbelievers] are worse than lost cattle"
    - 70:42*"So leave them to plunge in vain talk and play about, until they meet their Day which they are promised"
    - 80:42*"they who are unbelievers, the wicked"
    - 39:32*"Who, then, doth more wrong than one who utters a lie concerning Allah, and rejects the Truth when it comes to him; is there not in Hell an abode for blasphemers"?
    - 40:10*"The disbelievers will be told, 'God's hatred towards you is much greater than your hatred of your own selves'".
    - 7:177*"How evil an example are people who denied Our signs and used to wrong themselves"
    - 19:86*"and drive the evildoers [followers of Satan] into Hell"
    - 19:88-89*"They say: "(Allah) Most Gracious has begotten a son.*Indeed ye have put forth a thing most monstrous"!
    - 41:26-28 "The Unbelievers say: 'Listen not to this Qur'an, but talk at random in the midst of its (reading), that you may gain the upper hand'.*But We will certainly give the Unbelievers a taste of a severe Penalty, and We will requite them for the worst of their deeds.*That is the reward of Allah's enemies: the Fire. Therein is their immortal home, payment forasmuch as they denied Our revelations".

    There are many hundreds of such verses. The denigration of non-Muslims is relentless. There's your broad brush.
    Stevecanuk:

    Arab tribal culture of the 7th to 10th centuries CE was violent and brutal. The Qur'an reflects that in its language but most modern Muslims understand that what was acceptable in the 9th Century CE is not acceptable in the 21st Century CE. Just as the Torah/Old Testament is filled with violence and brutality reflective of the early Iron Age in Mesopotamia, and the New Testament is filled with horrors from the minds of the Classical Period, the Qur'an reflects the time and the culture which created the faith of Islam. Aside from a very small margin of fanatical zealots most Muslims have the good sense to take a more nuanced and far less fundamentalist approach to their faith. Yes they believe that the Qur'an is the uncreated word of Allah transmitted through the person of the Prophet Muhammad, but they also understand that the Arabs are not still riding about on horses, swinging tulwars about and stomping on non-believers and dhimmi. Most Muslims today use the Qur'an and the teachings of their mullahs, imams, etc. as a guide to life, not as a literal instruction manual. That literalism is the province of the fundamentalists and fanatics at the far fringes of Islam, not the home of the vast majority of the faithful.

    Your repeated reliance on quoting parts of the surahs out of context and in a 9th Century CE mindset is the same tunnel vision that guides the militant fundamentalists to plague their fellow Muslims and non-Muslims with violence justified in the name of Islam. Most Jews and Chistians have left behind the genocides of the Amelkites and the stoning of transgressors, consigning such stuff in the dustbin of history. Likewise the vast majority of Muslims have left the hatreds and atrocities of the 9th Century CE behind too. Only the fanatics of those three religions cling to the monstrosities of the past. It seems you yourself cannot see that.

    Go to some of your local mosques and speak with the Muslims who work or pray there. They are not stuck in the mindset of the people who fought the Battle of Badr. They have grown and evolved into modern people who do not put much weight on the passages you repeatedly cite, as you attempt to demonise all Muslims the world over. Get your nose out of dusty books and hate-mongering websites and meet the people you are pillorying. Talk to them civilly and you will see the vast mass of the iceberg of Islam existing under the surface of your very antagonistic narrative are peaceful, normal people. Learn to shed your dependency on literalism and experience the beauty and the wisdom of Islamic civilisations around the globe which flowered and flourished long before you were born. Then ask yourself what became of the Golden Ages of Islam. It was the Franks, Mongels, Turks and other Westerners who came as the barbarians to topple the great civilisations of Islam, and those attacks continues today. You are one of these attacks' enthusiastic cheerleaders. Rah-rah-rah, read the bad surah! You are the barbarian behind the book.

    So rage on in the hate-filled literalism that is a millennium out of date. You do you, and the rest of us will live our lives as sane people.

    Evilroddy.
    Last edited by Evilroddy; 12-02-19 at 09:46 PM.
    "At the heart of quantum mechanics is a rule that sometimes governs politicians or CEOs - as long as no one is watching, anything goes.
    ― Lawrence M. Krauss

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    Re: London Bridge Knife Attacks - Terrorism or Multiple Murder?

    Quote Originally Posted by OldFatGuy View Post
    You've seen nothing. I am not damaged as you so fantasize. My hate has been earned, whether you like it or not. It has been earned by the rotting corpses of islam's victims, whether you like it or not. Your false judgments mean nothing. Feel free to pimp for islam, your day is coming, whether you like it or not.
    Zzzzzzzzz.
    "At the heart of quantum mechanics is a rule that sometimes governs politicians or CEOs - as long as no one is watching, anything goes.
    ― Lawrence M. Krauss

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    Re: London Bridge Knife Attacks - Terrorism or Multiple Murder?

    Quote Originally Posted by Evilroddy View Post
    Zzzzzzzzz.
    Finally, you are speechless.

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    Re: London Bridge Knife Attacks - Terrorism or Multiple Murder?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sweden View Post
    No it means Muslims continue to live in the UK and accept - well most of them - that it will not be possible to kill apostates until the time comes when they will be able to impose Shaia law.
    "until the time comes"

    Do you think that the UK will ever adopt the Sharia law?

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    Re: London Bridge Knife Attacks - Terrorism or Multiple Murder?

    Quote Originally Posted by Snazzy View Post
    "until the time comes"

    Do you think that the UK will ever adopt the Sharia law?
    When Muslims are in the majority in the UK. Immigration and demographics suggest this may happen around 2050.

    (Shariah 'family courts', where women are at a great disadvantage, already exist in the UK btw).

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    Re: London Bridge Knife Attacks - Terrorism or Multiple Murder?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sweden View Post
    When Muslims are in the majority in the UK. Immigration and demographics suggest this may happen around 2050.

    (Shariah 'family courts', where women are at a great disadvantage, already exist in the UK btw).
    So in 2020, the Muslim population of the UK is under 10% and you expect that to climb to 50%+ in one generation? Have you even done the math on that, or you just quoting some neo nazi site?

    Sent from my Honor 8X
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    Re: London Bridge Knife Attacks - Terrorism or Multiple Murder?

    Quote Originally Posted by Evilroddy View Post
    Stevecanuk:

    Arab tribal culture of the 7th to 10th centuries CE was violent and brutal. The Qur'an reflects that in its language but most modern Muslims understand that what was acceptable in the 9th Century CE is not acceptable in the 21st Century CE. Just as the Torah/Old Testament is filled with violence and brutality reflective of the early Iron Age in Mesopotamia, and the New Testament is filled with horrors from the minds of the Classical Period, the Qur'an reflects the time and the culture which created the faith of Islam. Aside from a very small margin of fanatical zealots most Muslims have the good sense to take a more nuanced and far less fundamentalist approach to their faith. Yes they believe that the Qur'an is the uncreated word of Allah transmitted through the person of the Prophet Muhammad, but they also understand that the Arabs are not still riding about on horses, swinging tulwars about and stomping on non-believers and dhimmi. Most Muslims today use the Qur'an and the teachings of their mullahs, imams, etc. as a guide to life, not as a literal instruction manual. That literalism is the province of the fundamentalists and fanatics at the far fringes of Islam, not the home of the vast majority of the faithful.
    There are more literalists out there than you want to admit to. Look at the laws that exist in some Muslim countries and think about that again. Religious minorities in many Muslim majority countries live in constant fear of being found guilty of "insulting Islam" and losing their heads as a result. Not all Muslims, but enough to be a problem.

    Your repeated reliance on quoting parts of the surahs out of context and in a 9th Century CE mindset is the same tunnel vision that guides the militant fundamentalists to plague their fellow Muslims and non-Muslims with violence justified in the name of Islam.
    Yes. We are in complete agreement. People who fret about finding the root causes of terrorism need look no further than the Qur'an. It guides today's zealots every bit as much as it guided the first Muslims. That's the main point I've been making. I'm glad you see it.

    As to the "out of context" red herring, when you understand the historical context in which these verses were written, it draws a picture showing exactly when Mohamed first commanded killing "fee sabil allah". That happens in verses 2:190-191 at exactly the point when he wanted to start raiding Meccan caravans. It only gets worse from there.

    {Most Jews and Chistians have left behind the genocides of the Amelkites and the stoning of transgressors, consigning such stuff in the dustbin of history. Likewise the vast majority of Muslims have left the hatreds and atrocities of the 9th Century CE behind too. Only the fanatics of those three religions cling to the monstrosities of the past. It seems you yourself cannot see that.
    No, that is EXACTLY what I see, and what I've been saying.

    What you don't see is that the Qur'an is a sermon. It is only about 2% story telling. For Christians (mostly) to act horribly based on the bible, they have to extrapolate the details of a story into commands for today, and much of that is a pretty ridiculous stretch. For Muslims to act badly, they only have to read direct commands from God and decide to either obey or not.
    - See something, say something, get called an Islamophobe.
    - The absence of hostilities does not prove the absence of hostility.
    - Legitimate criticism is neither hate speech, phobic, nor incitement to commit violence.
    - I choose my words very, very, VERY carefully. - Jordan Peterson.

  9. #49
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    Re: London Bridge Knife Attacks - Terrorism or Multiple Murder?

    [QUOTE=Evilroddy;1070974394]Stevecanuk:


    Go to some of your local mosques and speak with the Muslims who work or pray there. They are not stuck in the mindset of the people who fought the Battle of Badr. They have grown and evolved into modern people who do not put much weight on the passages you repeatedly cite, as you attempt to demonise all Muslims the world over. Get your nose out of dusty books and hate-mongering websites and meet the people you are pillorying. Talk to them civilly and you will see the vast mass of the iceberg of Islam existing under the surface of your very antagonistic narrative are peaceful, normal people. Learn to shed your dependency on literalism and experience the beauty and the wisdom of Islamic civilisations around the globe which flowered and flourished long before you were born. Then ask yourself what became of the Golden Ages of Islam. It was the Franks, Mongels, Turks and other Westerners who came as the barbarians to topple the great civilisations of Islam, and those attacks continues today. You are one of these attacks' enthusiastic cheerleaders. Rah-rah-rah, read the bad surah! You are the barbarian behind the book.

    So rage on in the hate-filled literalism that is a millennium out of date. You do you, and the rest of us will live our lives as sane people.

    Evilroddy.

    Aaaaand finish with a flourish of self-righteous virtue signaling. Feel better? When you feel the need to throw in phrases like "dusty books" and "hate-mongering websites", it shows you have no real argument.

    Yes, literalism. Literalism is what drives a mujaheed today as much as it did 1400 years ago. You even admitted that yourself.

    As yes, those nasty Franks. How dare they stop the Muslim advance just west of Paris. Oh, the audacity.
    - See something, say something, get called an Islamophobe.
    - The absence of hostilities does not prove the absence of hostility.
    - Legitimate criticism is neither hate speech, phobic, nor incitement to commit violence.
    - I choose my words very, very, VERY carefully. - Jordan Peterson.

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    Re: London Bridge Knife Attacks - Terrorism or Multiple Murder?

    Quote Originally Posted by AProudLefty View Post
    Terrorism - intending to scare people into submission.
    Mass Murder - just a freak event when one goes crazy.
    In most of these incidents, it's both.

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