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Who will win the UK General Election Dec 2019?

Manc Skipper said:
As someone commented yesterday, "If you only see antisemitism in the Labour Party then your problem is with Labour and not antisemitism." Open Islamophobia in the Conservative ranks is ignored.
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What a load of sheep the British have become. A country of 66 million people, 80% of whom are not Jewish or Muslim, and you've been relegated to choosing which minority's interests you support, while not allowed to support your identity group. No, you're a formless, gray blob with no heritage, culture, or group interests.

You're cheerleaders, not leaders nowadays.
 
truthatallcost said:
What a load of sheep the British have become. A country of 66 million people, 80% of whom are not Jewish or Muslim, and you've been relegated to choosing which minority's interests you support, while not allowed to support your identity group. No, you're a formless, gray blob with no heritage, culture, or group interests.

You're cheerleaders, not leaders nowadays.
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and what makes you think that the White Supremacist drivel you spout is of relevance to anyone over here?

Seeing how you also constantly display your ignorance on things European, British or anything at all.
 
Chomsky said:
I have little to say that wan't said above, and Brit politics is not my forte. But I wish we (States) had a dynamic environment like this, with many substantive & vying parties. I detest the two party system, Duverger notwithstanding.
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Agree, in a Parliamentarian system smaller third parties are relevant.
 
yankintx said:
Agree, in a Parliamentarian system smaller third parties are relevant.
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Yeah - after looking at our recent political travails, the Parliamentarian system looks like it has some positive attributes.
 
truthatallcost said:
What a load of sheep the British have become. A country of 66 million people, 80% of whom are not Jewish or Muslim, and you've been relegated to choosing which minority's interests you support, while not allowed to support your identity group. No, you're a formless, gray blob with no heritage, culture, or group interests.

You're cheerleaders, not leaders nowadays.
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Your country elected a realty TV star so simmer down darling.
 
PeteEU said:
I have, and "turning on Jews" is mostly based on what the Tory media has been printing which is why I am sceptical. Every time there is a supposed case, there is zero information on what the supposed "antisemitic" behaviour is. Even Sky News .and BBC keep pushing the supposed issues and yet have yet to my knowledge actually presented any evidence. Can you link anything substantial? And no, being against Israeli government policy aint being antisemitic. I am genuinely curious since the amount of hatred towards Corbyn and the supposed antisemitic labour party is perplexing considering that the antisemitic party in the UK has historically been the Tories.
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I'm talking about hate mail directed at Jewish Labour MPs etc. There's plenty more and none to do with Israel.
 
Manc Skipper said:
As someone commented yesterday, "If you only see antisemitism in the Labour Party then your problem is with Labour and not antisemitism." Open Islamophobia in the Conservative ranks is ignored.
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a SNP candidate for Falkirk stood down earlier today in the anti semitism row for sharing a image about George soros from 2 years ago.. it was deemed anti semetic .... Labour have probably saved there seat ... but it still won't save the UK
 
PeteEU said:
Again no evidence.. show the letters.. it is behind a Murdoch paywall.. And who the hell sends letters these days? Also the driving force behind these accusations is a rabbi that clearly supports Boris and the Tories...
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Did you see the female Labour politicians who accused Boris in Parliament of stoking an atmosphere of hate in the Brexit process?

A whole group of centrist politicians are leaving politics this election - both Labour and Conservatives. They too have had letters, death threats and hate mail. I'd be disappointed if you demanded to see the actual letters and evidence the police hold otherwise you think everyone is pretending.
 
Infinite Chaos said:
Once the House of Lords approve, this will quickly become law and there will be an election on Boris' proposed date... Blair has previously warned Corbyn of the "elephant trap" and tonight he firmly believed Labour had finally stepped into that trap.

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Looking at the poll tracker on this page - Labour's unclear stance on Brexit has hurt. The Lib Dems and Conservatives have picked up support (the centre is always squeezed when it comes to actual voting time) and Labour support is down - suggesting the public want clear stance on Brexit and policy.
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Lots of Brits favor Brexit for personal reasons related to their loss of freedoms and income under British inclusion in the EU. George Soros, understandably, favors the EU from his rich banker position, standing to gain a great deal personally if Britain remains in the EU.
 
Infinite Chaos said:
Did you see the female Labour politicians who accused Boris in Parliament of stoking an atmosphere of hate in the Brexit process?

A whole group of centrist politicians are leaving politics this election - both Labour and Conservatives. They too have had letters, death threats and hate mail. I'd be disappointed if you demanded to see the actual letters and evidence the police hold otherwise you think everyone is pretending.
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Oh I have no doubt that has been threats on both sides. My point is, that the whole accusation of antisemitism in Labour stems from one rabbi and the Tory leaning press and there has not really been any evidence presented. Unlike the Tory problem with anti-Muslim sentiment is quite clear... and there is plenty of evidence of that.

Hell I would claim there is more evidence of Tory antisemitism, both historical and now, than there is of current labour antisemitism. One would think that some of this supposed antisemitism would come out in social media and be there for all to see. Except for one muslim labour member openly supporting the Palestinians over a year ago, then I have not seen anything... and that was not even antisemitism. Hiding behind "police case" is quite convenient right up to an election.
 
marke said:
Lots of Brits favor Brexit for personal reasons related to their loss of freedoms and income under British inclusion in the EU. George Soros, understandably, favors the EU from his rich banker position, standing to gain a great deal personally if Britain remains in the EU.
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Wait what? LOL... what loss of freedoms? Since when is being able to easily travel cheaply to Spain a loss of freedom? And loss of income? The UK was bankrupt before they entered the EEC/EU. And the UK is the home.. sorry was the home before Brexit, of the EU banking system! The whole UK economy is dependent on the City of London. And what on earth does George Soros have to do with this and is that just the usual code about Jews?
 
PeteEU said:
Oh I have no doubt that has been threats on both sides. My point is, that the whole accusation of antisemitism in Labour stems from one rabbi and the Tory leaning press and there has not really been any evidence presented. Unlike the Tory problem with anti-Muslim sentiment is quite clear... and there is plenty of evidence of that.

Hell I would claim there is more evidence of Tory antisemitism, both historical and now, than there is of current labour antisemitism. One would think that some of this supposed antisemitism would come out in social media and be there for all to see. Except for one muslim labour member openly supporting the Palestinians over a year ago, then I have not seen anything... and that was not even antisemitism. Hiding behind "police case" is quite convenient right up to an election.
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OK, find me ONE UK news source that suggests there isn't an antisemitism problem in the Labour Party. Or are they ALL "Tory leaning press?"
 
PeteEU said:
Wait what? LOL... what loss of freedoms? Since when is being able to easily travel cheaply to Spain a loss of freedom? And loss of income? The UK was bankrupt before they entered the EEC/EU. And the UK is the home.. sorry was the home before Brexit, of the EU banking system! The whole UK economy is dependent on the City of London. And what on earth does George Soros have to do with this and is that just the usual code about Jews?
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Brexit hasn't actually happened yet - unless you've been doing 90mph in the Delorean.
 
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Infinite Chaos said:
OK, find me ONE UK news source that suggests there isn't an antisemitism problem in the Labour Party. Or are they ALL "Tory leaning press?"
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Oh they are all saying it NOW, but when it first came out it was the Tory lead media based on an accusation of a pro Tory rabbi. That the media often dont do due diligence or follow the powers that be on issues is nothing new even in the UK. My point is, that this supposed antisemitism in the labour party has never actually been proven with actual examples.

Not sure how else to try to explain it. It is a bit like back before the second gulf war. US media were fueling the call to war because of 9/11 and not double checking the facts. Only media that was doing that, was the European media but that did not matter.

In this case there is fear of Corbyn on both the left and the right, so they are throwing all sorts of mud against him to see what sticks, and what are the actual facts? Where is the evidence there is a massive antisemitism problem in labour? One would think that the media could come with actual evidence and quotes, as normally these antisemitic morons like to promote their crap in public. And yet, have you actually seen any? It really reminds of a whisper campaign in the school yard that some kid has the cooties...
 
PeteEU said:
~ that this supposed antisemitism in the labour party has never actually been proven with actual examples ~
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Former staff members complain about interference in investigating matters from above, 635 complaints this year alone, 8 expulsions from the Labour Party and you think antisemitism in Labour is "supposed?"

What does it take for you to accept there is a problem?
 
Infinite Chaos said:
Former staff members complain about interference in investigating matters from above, 635 complaints this year alone, 8 expulsions from the Labour Party and you think antisemitism in Labour is "supposed?"

What does it take for you to accept there is a problem?
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Actually evidence that everyone can read tied to specific people. One would think that with all the Tory media, that exposing some jackass antisemitic labour person would mean these documents and evidence would be plastered all over cyberspace.

Take this

General election 2019: Labour candidate removed over anti-Semitism claims - BBC News

They suspend the candidate based on something she supposedly wrote on Facebook. So that must be easy for the BBC to dig up no? I have not seen what she wrote anywhere, maybe you have a link?

Listen I am not saying that there is no antisemitic people in Labour. It is a huge organisation spanning all parts of British society so of course it also reflects said society. But my problem is the timing and conditions to which the accusations have been made and the clear lack of publicly available evidence to back up these accusations.



Sent from my Honor 8X
 
PeteEU said:
Actually evidence that everyone can read tied to specific people. One would think that with all the Tory media, that exposing some jackass antisemitic labour person would mean these documents and evidence would be plastered all over cyberspace.

Take this

General election 2019: Labour candidate removed over anti-Semitism claims - BBC News

They suspend the candidate based on something she supposedly wrote on Facebook. So that must be easy for the BBC to dig up no? I have not seen what she wrote anywhere, maybe you have a link?

Listen I am not saying that there is no antisemitic people in Labour. It is a huge organisation spanning all parts of British society so of course it also reflects said society. But my problem is the timing and conditions to which the accusations have been made and the clear lack of publicly available evidence to back up these accusations.



Sent from my Honor 8X
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"If the polls are to be believed, Britain’s Prime Minister, Boris Johnson, is heading for a comfortable win when the country votes in December’s general election.

If so, that victory would apparently be welcomed by Jewish voters, who, surveys suggest, fear the consequences of the hard-left opposition leader Jeremy Corbyn moving into Downing Street. According to a poll published last week, just seven percent of British Jews said they would even consider supporting his Labour Party. " Polls: Despite mixed opinions on Brexit, 93% of UK Jews won't vote for Labour | The Times of Israel

Add in Usman Khan, and the conservatives may even out perform their polling.
 
PeteEU said:
Actually evidence that everyone can read tied to specific people. One would think that with all the Tory media, that exposing some jackass antisemitic labour person would mean these documents and evidence would be plastered all over cyberspace.

Take this

General election 2019: Labour candidate removed over anti-Semitism claims - BBC News

They suspend the candidate based on something she supposedly wrote on Facebook. So that must be easy for the BBC to dig up no? I have not seen what she wrote anywhere, maybe you have a link?

Listen I am not saying that there is no antisemitic people in Labour. It is a huge organisation spanning all parts of British society so of course it also reflects said society. But my problem is the timing and conditions to which the accusations have been made and the clear lack of publicly available evidence to back up these accusations.



Sent from my Honor 8X
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I'm suspicious of your hostility for the investigation of antisemitism. I'm not calling you antisemitic but these incidents have been ongoing for years now. It's no flash in the pan and comes along with the rise of Jeremy Corbyn to power. His position on anti-semitism is as clear as his position on Brexit, his voting history on Europe demonstrates that any pro-Remain statements he made were facile and his statements on antisemitism are equally superficial.

His history is clear by his actions and allegiances.

Drawdown said:
"If the polls are to be believed, Britain’s Prime Minister, Boris Johnson, is heading for a comfortable win when the country votes in December’s general election.


If so, that victory would apparently be welcomed by Jewish voters, who, surveys suggest, fear the consequences of the hard-left opposition leader Jeremy Corbyn moving into Downing Street. According to a poll published last week, just seven percent of British Jews said they would even consider supporting his Labour Party ~
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Many Labour voters won't vote for Corbyn full stop - whether Jewish or not. A lot of my ex-military friends simply won't vote for a man whose record on the IRA suggests his sympathies lay with enemies of the British armed forces in Northern Ireland.
 
Infinite Chaos said:
I'm suspicious of your hostility for the investigation of antisemitism. I'm not calling you antisemitic but these incidents have been ongoing for years now. It's no flash in the pan and comes along with the rise of Jeremy Corbyn to power. His position on anti-semitism is as clear as his position on Brexit, his voting history on Europe demonstrates that any pro-Remain statements he made were facile and his statements on antisemitism are equally superficial.

His history is clear by his actions and allegiances.
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I am in no way hostile or against investigating claims of antisemitic behaviour in Labour or any political party. They should do it in the Tories as well.

My issue is the lack of publicly available evidence to back up these accusations.

As for Corbyn, I agree he needs to make his stance clea on pretty much everything, but we both know that the accusations of antisemtisim against him are bull****. He supports Palestinian self determination and has done his whole career and that is what certain people are exploiting.

It is also hilarious how Boris and May were at the dedication of a statue yesterday or so, for the first female member of Parliament and yet most forget that she was a Tory who is was pro Nazi and very much an anti semite.. Odd how there are different standards eh?


Sent from my Honor 8X
 
PeteEU said:
My issue is the lack of publicly available evidence to back up these accusations.

Sent from my Honor 8X
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Which accusations are you referring to - are there any in particular?
 
Snazzy said:
Which accusations are you referring to - are there any in particular?
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Thats the problem! The are so vague that most of them you cant even point out! There was the one I posted, which had zero evidence linked and yet it was enough. We have heard of Labour members being kicked out for accusations of antisemitism, but seen no evidence... why?
 
PeteEU said:
Thats the problem! The are so vague that most of them you cant even point out! There was the one I posted, which had zero evidence linked and yet it was enough.

We have heard of Labour members being kicked out for accusations of antisemitism, but seen no evidence... why?
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Who are the Labour members you are referring to that have been kicked out without any evidence?
 
PeteEU said:
I am in no way hostile or against investigating claims of antisemitic behaviour in Labour or any political party. They should do it in the Tories as well.

My issue is the lack of publicly available evidence to back up these accusations.

As for Corbyn, I agree he needs to make his stance clea on pretty much everything, but we both know that the accusations of antisemtisim against him are bull****. He supports Palestinian self determination and has done his whole career and that is what certain people are exploiting.

It is also hilarious how Boris and May were at the dedication of a statue yesterday or so, for the first female member of Parliament and yet most forget that she was a Tory who is was pro Nazi and very much an anti semite.. Odd how there are different standards eh?


Sent from my Honor 8X
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Factcheck on claims Labour has (as Corbyn says) "investigated every case of antisemitism."

Some of the evidence is with the Labour Party and NEC, some with police so I ask - why do you think people are being expelled from the Labour Party?
 
Infinite Chaos said:
Factcheck on claims Labour has (as Corbyn says) "investigated every case of antisemitism."

Some of the evidence is with the Labour Party and NEC, some with police so I ask - why do you think people are being expelled from the Labour Party?
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TBH the great red purge 3.0.. Corybn is using the opportunity to get rid of troublemakers... at least for some of them. Remember he is "old school", one of the main reasons I dislike him.

And I dont understand why you so blindly follow a narrative without even the remotest evidence. Expelling from the party aint evidence of wrong doing.. just look at the Tories and them expelling people.
 
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