Who will win the UK General Election Dec 2019?

Infinite Chaos said:

Labour and Momentum share the blame; there has been ample time to remove Corbyn and they have viciously attacked all those who questioned his leadership.

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Yeah, they have to re-invent from the toast that they are or will soon be, or they can ALL go home.

And where the Tories (I shudder at using the term nowadays) will be on a drunken high after the election (providing they break the stalemate by however small number), real time will set in at once. Like with looking at all the dishonest promises BoJo is trying to peddle and seeing how practically none of them are kept, because it will show as impossible.

The nasty party is gonna bloom like never before and all and everybody will see themselves shafted.

But everybody will get what their vote deserves them and in that the country is united, irrespective of which way anyone leans.

Chagos said:

Yeah, they have to re-invent from the toast that they are or will soon be, or they can ALL go home.

And where the Tories (I shudder at using the term nowadays) will be on a drunken high after the election (providing they break the stalemate by however small number), real time will set in at once. Like with looking at all the dishonest promises BoJo is trying to peddle and seeing how practically none of them are kept, because it will show as impossible.

The nasty party is gonna bloom like never before and all and everybody will see themselves shafted.

But everybody will get what their vote deserves them and in that the country is united, irrespective of which way anyone leans.

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The Brexiters will be happy, whatever damage is done. That's the hard thing about all this.

Infinite Chaos said:

The Brexiters will be happy, whatever damage is done. That's the hard thing about all this.

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Yeah, with their dying gasp being "we took back control".

Of course not the ERG and similar scum, they'll be enjoying the spoils in the cosiness of elsewhere.

Infinite Chaos said:

The Conservatives continue to storm ahead in the Polls - largely at cost to the Brexit Party. Today the national Poll Tracker has the following percentages

Conservatives: 41%
Labour: 29%
Lib Dems: 15%
Brexit Pary: 6% (down from a high of 27% in Summer)
SNP:4% (but they are standing in Scotland only where they are expected to dominate.)
Plaid Cymru: 0%(but they are standing in Wales only where they will gain some seats)
Green: 3%
UKIP: 0%
Independent Group for Change: 0%

Two things strike me, Corbyn eventually fell into the elephant trap warned of by Tony Blair and secondly, I don't think he's bothered that Brexit actually happens. The Remain parties cannot organise around him or Labour at present.

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you are witnessing the beginning of the end for the UK ... i know many in England and in Scotland don't want it to happen .... it simply can't be stopped

Godric1970 said:

you are witnessing the beginning of the end for the UK ... i know many in England and in Scotland don't want it to happen .... it simply can't be stopped

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not likely. Ireland may eventually reunify--hopefully--but Scotland isn't going anywhere. The UK is its largest trading partner. Scotland has a high tax rate and still goes further and further in debt. They can't afford to leave the UK

Drawdown said:

not likely. Ireland may eventually reunify--hopefully--but Scotland isn't going anywhere. The UK is its largest trading partner. Scotland has a high tax rate and still goes further and further in debt. They can't afford to leave the UK

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So tell me how does the tax rate in Scotland compare with that in England?

Drawdown said:

not likely. Ireland may eventually reunify--hopefully--but Scotland isn't going anywhere. The UK is its largest trading partner. Scotland has a high tax rate and still goes further and further in debt. They can't afford to leave the UK

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utter nonsense on every part of your post ... it's not England's choice to make it's ours England plays funny burgers we supply 75% of UK gas we have 95% of oil being extracted worth £350 million a day or £127.75 Billion per year, we have trade surpluses with almost every country except UK where i t classes our exports from english ports and Airports as exports to the rest of the UK .. Heathrows two biggest customers are Scottish Salmon and Scotch Whiskey, we supply England with our excess electricity out put without such England would face regular black outs ... we can't afford to remain in the UK .. as for Taxed the most ... not likely ... our taxes are different your council tax is higher your water charges/tax is higher our water supply is still publicly owned and as for the top rate of tax cuts were not fully implemented their is a 2% difference ... so yet again we have a Sassenach (Saxon Man) spouting nonsense about nothing he knows about

Godric1970 said:

utter nonsense on every part of your post ... it's not England's choice to make it's ours England plays funny burgers we supply 75% of UK gas we have 95% of oil being extracted worth £350 million a day or £127.75 Billion per year, we have trade surpluses with almost every country except UK where i t classes our exports from english ports and Airports as exports to the rest of the UK .. Heathrows two biggest customers are Scottish Salmon and Scotch Whiskey, we supply England with our excess electricity out put without such England would face regular black outs ... we can't afford to remain in the UK .. as for Taxed the most ... not likely ... our taxes are different your council tax is higher your water charges/tax is higher our water supply is still publicly owned and as for the top rate of tax cuts were not fully implemented their is a 2% difference ... so yet again we have a Sassenach (Saxon Man) spouting nonsense about nothing he knows about

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Feel free to put your faith in Derek Mackay's naive belief that Scotland can be free of the union and not have to bow at the feet of the EU, if they even bothered to accept you as it is not clear that they would even allow the Euro to be your currency given your debt levels. They will be just as heavy-handed with Scotland as they were with Greece. Of course, since the conservative will win, there will not be a second referendum for your country either.

"

Drawdown said:

Feel free to put your faith in Derek Mackay's naive belief that Scotland can be free of the union and not have to bow at the feet of the EU, if they even bothered to accept you as it is not clear that they would even allow the Euro to be your currency given your debt levels. They will be just as heavy-handed with Scotland as they were with Greece. Of course, since the conservative will win, there will not be a second referendum for your country either.

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Scotland will have more autonomy being part of the EU than being part of the UK

Lord Tammerlain said:

Scotland will have more autonomy being part of the EU than being part of the UK

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Just as people who move out from mom's basement have more bills than when they were living off their parent. This whole idea that austerity will be cured if the government can tax and spend more is folly. It is running better than 6 times the UK's deficit to GDP ratio as is.

Drawdown said:

Feel free to put your faith in Derek Mackay's naive belief that Scotland can be free of the union and not have to bow at the feet of the EU, if they even bothered to accept you as it is not clear that they would even allow the Euro to be your currency given your debt levels. They will be just as heavy-handed with Scotland as they were with Greece. Of course, since the conservative will win, there will not be a second referendum for your country either.

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more Rubbish this so called debt you talk about is money spent on behalf of Scotland by UK government we pay 100% of our capital projects 9% of the UK capitol projects worth over £2 trillion including London Olympics and London Sewers so why are we paying 100% of our own and 9% of the UKs?? billions in service charges for our businesses
UK gets just under £63 billion (last years figures) £30 billion goes towards Holyrood including Capitol projects and the barnet formula .. UK gov takes the rest over £32 billion and claims it spends a further £12 billion on top of that = over £44 billion and this how they come to £12 - £13 billion deficit hence it's a load of rubbish what does England actually export except for Scottish goods ??


This next image does not include our £6 billion gaming industry that includes titles like Grand theft auto and our £1.5 billion space industry and because it's from 2014 the gs figures has risen to 75%, we have more natural resources than any country in Europe our entire maritime boundary is covered with oil and gas fields we have vast reserves ... North Sea is only part of it we will be fine as i've said £350 million in oil is extracted from our sector of the north sea almost a £128 billion



and no country said they would block our membership instead they have told us we would be fast tracked and we don't need to take the EURO another lie

by 13th of December we will have 3 mandates and if Boris refuses our constitutional courts will force him Scotland is not Catalonia sunshine

Corbyn asked 4 times tonight about whether he would apologise to the Jewish community and he avoided each time.

Corbyn refuses to apologise for anti-semitism in Labour Party. Just like Brexit, the man doesn't care and his true beliefs are not what the party likes to show us.

Drawdown said:

Infinite Chaos said:

So tell me how does the tax rate in Scotland compare with that in England?

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~ Scotland has a high tax rate and still goes further and further in debt.

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A reminder when you have the chance.

Infinite Chaos said:

Corbyn asked 4 times tonight about whether he would apologise to the Jewish community and he avoided each time.

Corbyn refuses to apologise for anti-semitism in Labour Party. Just like Brexit, the man doesn't care and his true beliefs are not what the party likes to show us.



A reminder when you have the chance.

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What exactly does he have to apologise for?

Sent from my Honor 8X

TheParser said:

1. I wish the best of luck to the people supporting Brexit.

2. From what little that I have read, many English people are quite distressed about some of the cultural changes that have occurred in England since the end of World War II. (I have read that crime is really terrible in certain areas of London.)

3. They may be mistaken in thinking that Brexit can restore some of the charm of England before World War II, but maybe it's worth at least a try.

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Pre-WWII charm? You mean the kind that attracted the Huns? Or did you mean the England that existed prior to creation of the NHS? How does "charm" feed the national GDP or create jobs? Does charm help England in NATO and the UN?
How about Dickensian England, was that charming?

Drawdown said:

Johnson has a big lead for whatever it is worth: Boris Johnson Has Big Lead in U.K. Election. That Might Not Mean Much. - The New York Times

Johnson told Nigel to piss off General election 2019: Boris Johnson rejects pact with Nigel Farage - BBC News

Rich folks creating bug out plans in case Labour wins Super-rich prepare to leave UK 'within minutes' if Labour wins election | News | The Guardian

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I guess it's the same everywhere:

"Oh no!!! Whatever shall we do if the rich people get upset!!"



I know...find different rich people, because rich people love bargains, and whatever England's angry rich leave behind will be snapped up by other rich people.

Godric1970 said:

more Rubbish this so called debt you talk about is money spent on behalf of Scotland by UK government we pay 100% of our capital projects 9% of the UK capitol projects worth over £2 trillion including London Olympics and London Sewers so why are we paying 100% of our own and 9% of the UKs?? billions in service charges for our businesses
UK gets just under £63 billion (last years figures) £30 billion goes towards Holyrood including Capitol projects and the barnet formula .. UK gov takes the rest over £32 billion and claims it spends a further £12 billion on top of that = over £44 billion and this how they come to £12 - £13 billion deficit hence it's a load of rubbish what does England actually export except for Scottish goods ??

This next image does not include our £6 billion gaming industry that includes titles like Grand theft auto and our £1.5 billion space industry and because it's from 2014 the gs figures has risen to 75%, we have more natural resources than any country in Europe our entire maritime boundary is covered with oil and gas fields we have vast reserves ... North Sea is only part of it we will be fine as i've said £350 million in oil is extracted from our sector of the north sea almost a £128 billion

and no country said they would block our membership instead they have told us we would be fast tracked and we don't need to take the EURO another lie

by 13th of December we will have 3 mandates and if Boris refuses our constitutional courts will force him Scotland is not Catalonia sunshine

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The Courts won't force Johnson to do crap. In addition the bulk of the North Sea oil and natural gas would remain with the UK in the event of Scottish independence. An Independent Scotland would have to provide for its own security and military and Westminister doesn't claim it spends more on Scotland's behalf. It does spend more on Scotland's behalf.

Drawdown said:

The Courts won't force Johnson to do crap. In addition the bulk of the North Sea oil and natural gas would remain with the UK in the event of Scottish independence. An Independent Scotland would have to provide for its own security and military and Westminister doesn't claim it spends more on Scotland's behalf. It does spend more on Scotland's behalf.

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Looking at a map shows most of the oil fields would be in Scottish waters, while much of the gas would be in UK waters

Lord Tammerlain said:

Looking at a map shows most of the oil fields would be in Scottish waters, while much of the gas would be in UK waters

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those gas wells in England are mostly dried up the bulk of both oil and gas comes from Scotland a massive new field was found last year that provides 14% of UK's gas supplies and as for Drawdown ... UNCLOS will say otherwise about Scottish waters and the Scottish constitutional courts cannot be over ruled by the UK courts because Scots law and Scots Constitutional law is separate from UK courts ... UK has two signatories and Nicola Sturgeon has received assurances from the Top legal expert in Scottish Constitutional law ... you see when the NO side won the referendum vote in 2014 they won it via the vow a vow signed by all 3 unionist leaders stating we will be given near federalism, guaranteed EU citizenship, Tax jobs safe in Scotland (they moved to coventry 3 months after vote) pensions triple locked (what a joke) 13 type 26 frigates on the Clyde, the power to commission future referendums without Westminster permission, lead the UK not leave the UK (what a utter joke treated with nothing but disdain) without the vow Scotland would already be a independent country the Vow also broke the Edinburgh Agreement ... they watered it down via the Smith commission

anyhoo this is the bit that matters:

The Smith Commission
Page12
Chapter 2 para 18 states:
It is agreed that nothing in this report prevents Scotland becoming an independent country in the future should the people of Scotland so choose.
Signed by all Political Parties in Holyrood.
Does that clear things up now?

and the UK does spend over £44 billion on Scotland's behalf ... they are going to lose that £33 billion + £12 billion .. back to the economy UK gov says Scottish whisky is worth £5 billion to Uk economy Scotland has 80% of the global market share yet Ireland with 4% of the market share says it's worth 2.5 billion to the Irish economy .... the UK can't tell the truth about anything ... we will soon see whose economy is stronger than whose ... London cannot force Scotland to remain within the UK

PeteEU said:

What exactly does he have to apologise for?

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You not been watching what has been happening with Labour members turning on Jews in the UK? Jewish MPs leaving the party?

Infinite Chaos said:

You not been watching what has been happening with Labour members turning on Jews in the UK? Jewish MPs leaving the party?

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I have, and "turning on Jews" is mostly based on what the Tory media has been printing which is why I am sceptical. Every time there is a supposed case, there is zero information on what the supposed "antisemitic" behaviour is. Even Sky News .and BBC keep pushing the supposed issues and yet have yet to my knowledge actually presented any evidence. Can you link anything substantial? And no, being against Israeli government policy aint being antisemitic. I am genuinely curious since the amount of hatred towards Corbyn and the supposed antisemitic labour party is perplexing considering that the antisemitic party in the UK has historically been the Tories.

The Rabbi behind the Labour's Anti Semitism row ... nothing like hypocrisy

PeteEU said:

I have, and "turning on Jews" is mostly based on what the Tory media has been printing which is why I am sceptical. Every time there is a supposed case, there is zero information on what the supposed "antisemitic" behaviour is. Even Sky News .and BBC keep pushing the supposed issues and yet have yet to my knowledge actually presented any evidence. Can you link anything substantial? And no, being against Israeli government policy aint being antisemitic. I am genuinely curious since the amount of hatred towards Corbyn and the supposed antisemitic labour party is perplexing considering that the antisemitic party in the UK has historically been the Tories.

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The main trouble is, as always, one of definition. In many (if not most) cases, criticism of Israeli policy is prone to tip beyond address of any specific issue and in this Corbyn is and was no exception. The "tipping" consisting more often than not of slipping into generalizations of Jews overall, often unintentionally and via lack of sensitivity but nevertheless stupid in the abandonment with which many don't pay attention to their own words (IOW fail to think before speaking).

Add to that Corbyn's characteristic propensity for ambiguity by either trying to make believe that he's seeing both (or more) sides, or taking the stance of not wishing to be involved either way at all. This isn't simply confined to his stance on Brexit, it simply manifested itself more recently in that particular issue.

He's a pathological fence sitter and where I can see some of the merits of not taking a side, there are times when you simply have to show your color, especially when you're leading a political party that asks to be elected into government. IOW you need to see when it's time to get your finger out and if you don't want to do that, find another job rather than follow the belief that constant prevarication can take the place of clear policy.

I'd however disagree strongly on Corbyn being an anti-semite but he's clearly too weak a leader to even convey the impression of willingness to clean the stable.

As to assigning traditional anti-semitism to any side, Labour (in some percentage) shows as just being late to the party. Ever since the 70s when, in traditional leftist solidarity with the underdog, real or imagined, some couldn't divorce their support of Palestinians from putting general blame on Jews overall.

As someone commented yesterday, "If you only see antisemitism in the Labour Party then your problem is with Labour and not antisemitism." Open Islamophobia in the Conservative ranks is ignored.

Manc Skipper said:

As someone commented yesterday, "If you only see antisemitism in the Labour Party then your problem is with Labour and not antisemitism." Open Islamophobia in the Conservative ranks is ignored.

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There's that as well.

And no doubt the current focus on Labour's problems with the issue is to the Tories like Xmas, Easter and Thanksgiving all happening on the same day.

Simply put, the hypocrisy that reign is gross and stretches across all lines.

Chagos said:

There's that as well.

And no doubt the current focus on Labour's problems with the issue is to the Tories like Xmas, Easter and Thanksgiving all happening on the same day.

Simply put, the hypocrisy that reign is gross and stretches across all lines.

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It's the Tory party and the collective media, including the BBC. The Labour right wing, who are jumping ship, are all getting their parting digs in too.