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Thread: [W:51]Views on Brexit as divided as before

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    [W:51]Views on Brexit as divided as before

    very few voters on either side of the argument have changed their minds about whether the UK should leave the EU. The country appears to be just as divided as it was three years ago.
    On average, during the last month, polls that ask people how they would vote in another referendum suggest that 88% of those who backed Remain would do so again. Among those who voted Leave, 86% have not changed their minds.
    ~
    the balance of opinion might be tilted narrowly in favour of remaining a member of the EU. On average, this is by 53% to 47%. Link.
    Screenshot 2019-10-16 at 06.59.29.jpg

    There is a tiny majority for remaining and this has been the case since March 2018 but you could argue all sorts from different options people were polled on however the majority of people have not changed their minds on continuing EU membership.

    Long term though, in a hard Brexit Northern Ireland and Scotland would leave the UK - Wales seems to prefer vassal status to England unless hard Brexit wipes Wales out. Those lost Remain votes in Northern Ireland and Scotland will ensure England stays out of the EU while the other parts of the UK seek to rejoin.
    Last edited by Infinite Chaos; 10-16-19 at 03:01 AM.
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    re: [W:51]Views on Brexit as divided as before

    Quote Originally Posted by Infinite Chaos View Post
    ~............................Long term though, in a hard Brexit Northern Ireland and Scotland would leave the UK - Wales seems to prefer vassal status to England unless hard Brexit wipes Wales out. Those lost Remain votes in Northern Ireland and Scotland will ensure England stays out of the EU while the other parts of the UK seek to rejoin.
    Which, by reducing to pertinence, would finally bring the whole matter down to what it is really about. Namely that Leave is an exclusively English thing, not a British one.

    Never was.
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    re: [W:51]Views on Brexit as divided as before

    Quote Originally Posted by Chagos View Post
    Which, by reducing to pertinence, would finally bring the whole matter down to what it is really about. Namely that Leave is an exclusively English thing, not a British one.

    Never was.
    It's self-inflicted injury.
    The second most googled question in the UK the day after the Brexit vote, was "what is the European Union"? The uneducated masses voted for Leave, not even knowing what the whole thing was about. And there's been a persistent majority to Stay, but instead of pulling back and holding another referendum to scratch once and for all the stupid suicidal idea, the Brits are plowing ahead and committing the suicide anyway.

    So, if it isn't a British idea but rather an English one (and I think polls do support your statement), why in the hell don't Scotland and Northern Ireland have their own referendums, break away from the UK, and remain in the EU? It's lame and cowardly. They bitch about it but do nothing to stop this train wreck. Yes, I'm aware that the Scots tried to break away and failed. That's precisely what I mean. They don't have the guts to go solo. But they should realize that they wouldn't be going solo. They'd most likely be readmitted into the EU right after separating from the UK.

    Putin is the one salivating with satisfaction. There is nothing that plays into his hand more than a fractured European Union.
    Last edited by GreatNews2night; 10-16-19 at 05:26 AM.

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    re: [W:51]Views on Brexit as divided as before

    Problem is that Brexit has turned more towards "we got to do it even if it is wrong and kills us" mentality than a rational pragmatic view of the situation.

    Time and time again I have met or heard Brexit people say "well we voted to leave" as thier main excuse to sticking with it and when you pressure them on issues they tend to not want Brexit... But you know the UK voted to leave so we have to...

    Remind them that the UK also voted to join..... And thier brains explode.

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    re: [W:51]Views on Brexit as divided as before

    Quote Originally Posted by GreatNews2night View Post
    It's self-inflicted injury.
    The second most googled question in the UK the day after the Brexit vote, was "what is the European Union"? The uneducated masses voted for Leave, not even knowing what the whole thing was about. And there's been a persistent majority to Stay, but instead of pulling back and holding another referendum to scratch once and for all the stupid suicidal idea, the Brits are plowing ahead and committing the suicide anyway.

    So, if it isn't a British idea but rather an English one (and I think polls do support your statement), why in the hell don't Scotland and Northern Ireland have their own referendums, break away from the UK, and remain in the EU? It's lame and cowardly. They bitch about it but do nothing to stop this train wreck. Yes, I'm aware that the Scots tried to break away and failed. That's precisely what I mean. They don't have the guts to go solo. But they should realize that they wouldn't be going solo. They'd most likely be readmitted into the EU right after separating from the UK.

    Putin is the one salivating with satisfaction. There is nothing that plays into his hand more than a fractured European Union.
    I can see some good reasons to leave the EU and some good reasons to stay. But for the most part when debating I tend to take the remain side because the "arguments" from the leave side are so bad, so illogical, so lacking in reality it's unbelievable.

    One thing I've come to learn over the years is that people create their own fantasy worlds to hide from the real world. And Brexiters mostly fit into that category.
    Only interested in serious debate.

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    re: [W:51]Views on Brexit as divided as before

    Quote Originally Posted by PeteEU View Post
    Problem is that Brexit has turned more towards "we got to do it even if it is wrong and kills us" mentality than a rational pragmatic view of the situation.

    Time and time again I have met or heard Brexit people say "well we voted to leave" as thier main excuse to sticking with it and when you pressure them on issues they tend to not want Brexit... But you know the UK voted to leave so we have to...

    Remind them that the UK also voted to join..... And thier brains explode.

    Sent from my Honor 8X
    Remind them that the UK has General Elections every few years, and that they don't say "well, we just voted and we can't therefore vote every again for government, because that would be undemocratic" and, well.... they insult usually.
    Only interested in serious debate.

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    re: [W:51]Views on Brexit as divided as before

    Quote Originally Posted by GreatNews2night View Post
    It's self-inflicted injury.
    The second most googled question in the UK the day after the Brexit vote, was "what is the European Union"? The uneducated masses voted for Leave, not even knowing what the whole thing was about. And there's been a persistent majority to Stay, but instead of pulling back and holding another referendum to scratch once and for all the stupid suicidal idea, the Brits are plowing ahead and committing the suicide anyway.

    So, if it isn't a British idea but rather an English one (and I think polls do support your statement), why in the hell don't Scotland and Northern Ireland have their own referendums, break away from the UK, and remain in the EU? It's lame and cowardly. They bitch about it but do nothing to stop this train wreck. Yes, I'm aware that the Scots tried to break away and failed. That's precisely what I mean. They don't have the guts to go solo. But they should realize that they wouldn't be going solo. They'd most likely be readmitted into the EU right after separating from the UK.

    Putin is the one salivating with satisfaction. There is nothing that plays into his hand more than a fractured European Union.
    Scotland wouldn't stay in the EU if they left the UK; they would have to re-apply for EU membership, and Spain might well veto due to the Catalan independence movement. And Scotland can't have another referendum without the UK government's approval.

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    re: [W:51]Views on Brexit as divided as before

    Quote Originally Posted by GreatNews2night View Post
    ~........................why in the hell don't Scotland and Northern Ireland have their own referendums, break away from the UK, and remain in the EU? It's lame and cowardly. They bitch about it but do nothing to stop this train wreck. Yes, I'm aware that the Scots tried to break away and failed. That's precisely what I mean. They don't have the guts to go solo. But they should realize that they wouldn't be going solo. They'd most likely be readmitted into the EU right after separating from the UK................~
    Aristaeus already explained it well in post #7.

    As to the failed Scottish independence referendum of 2014, one needs to remember that the "NO" side made all sorts of promises over Scotland remaining (as part of the UK) in the EU, while separating would have them standing in line for membership appliance. Possibly endangered by a likely Spanish (and French) veto.

    Well, those promises are of course now broken.
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    re: [W:51]Views on Brexit as divided as before

    Quote Originally Posted by Aristaeus View Post
    Scotland wouldn't stay in the EU if they left the UK; they would have to re-apply for EU membership, and Spain might well veto due to the Catalan independence movement. And Scotland can't have another referendum without the UK government's approval.
    Technically correct (the bolded) but what is Westminster going to do if the Scots push ahead anyway? Send in the army?

    That might work in Spain wrt Catalunya (due that country's completely different organizational and judicial set-up) but I'll believe a Culloden re-run when I see it.
    Quote Originally Posted by coldjoint View Post
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    re: [W:51]Views on Brexit as divided as before

    Quote Originally Posted by Frigidweirdo View Post
    Remind them that the UK has General Elections every few years, and that they don't say "well, we just voted and we can't therefore vote every again for government, because that would be undemocratic" and, well.... they insult usually.
    The Swiss need to take the voting right back from women. They held three referendum until that right finally passed, so clearly the will of the people was ignored the first two times.

    Very undemocratic, I tellsya.
    Quote Originally Posted by coldjoint View Post
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