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[W:51]Views on Brexit as divided as before

Drawdown said:
The Benn Act doesn't control what happens. Article 50 does and Parliament has no say in how it gets applied.
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More inanity. the Benn act requires the temporary PM to ask for an extension. Parliament is sovereign, hence the Benn act being passed.
 
Manc Skipper said:
More inanity. the Benn act requires the temporary PM to ask for an extension. Parliament is sovereign, hence the Benn act being passed.
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Asking for an extension does not mean there can be a no deal brexit. Article 50 requires 100% consent for an extension among the EU members.
 
Frigidweirdo said:
Brexiters shouting "We want our sovereignty back"

Brexiters saying "Parliament doesn't have have UK sovereignty"

People who actually know about UK politics wondering how people who know NOTHING about UK politics get to vote.
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1) The last extension was granted by the EU not the UK

2) The Benn Act requires it be asked for. It cannot force the EU to grant it.

3) Boris has his Brexit deal. The only people ignorant are those who think Brexit will be stopped.
 
Drawdown said:
1) The last extension was granted by the EU not the UK

2) The Benn Act requires it be asked for. It cannot force the EU to grant it.

3) Boris has his Brexit deal. The only people ignorant are those who think Brexit will be stopped.
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Boris has a Brexit deal, when he doesn't have a majority in parliament WITH the DUP who say the deal sucks balls.

May had a deal from the EU. Remember? Oh, and May had a majority in parliament.
 
Drawdown said:
1) The last extension was granted by the EU not the UK

2) The Benn Act requires it be asked for. It cannot force the EU to grant it.

3) Boris has his Brexit deal. The only people ignorant are those who think Brexit will be stopped.
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accumulated piffle as one has come to expect as emanating from you. If your above 1) and 2) are designed to support the bovine manure you offered in post #21, you fail.

As to Boris having a deal, we'll see on Saturday what he has.
 
GreatNews2night said:
Exactly. That's what I just said.

Besides, Scotland and Northern Ireland breaking up with England and Wales and rejoining the EU would, for the EU, appear as further punishment and revenge for England's folly.

What the EU wants member states to know is that leaving the Union is pretty stupid.

So, if they can say, "see, the Brits left... and ended up breaking apart and part of them came back... and the English, the silly ones who drove the full Brexit folly, ended up diminished and alone."

The EU would love that. This is why they'd welcome Scotland and Northern Ireland back into the flock.
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I don't disagree this - but I would add the EU is run by its member states and the heads of those states make the decisions.
 
PoS said:
Hmm, a textbook case of projection.
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The deal is really is just an alternate backstop arrangement, a $39B payout agreement, and a 14 month deal for a new trade deal or a hard brexit. It mostly seals that Boris wins and his detractors are humiliated, and that is just too much pudding for some babies' mouths to handle.
 
The deal is a massive fail for Boris.

1) The May Backstop was a "just in case" thing, where as this one will happen from day 1.

2) The power to extend it will goto the NI parliament and a simple majority. Westminster will be cut out totally.

3) The Irish Sea will effectively be the border between the EU and UK until Irish reunification which will be sped up by Brexit.

Basically Boris caved on pretty much everything.

Sent from my Honor 8X
 
Boris got a batch of these to hand out to sway the parliamentary muppets. Hopefully he won't have enough:

index.jpg
 
PeteEU said:
~ Basically Boris caved on pretty much everything.
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Except his moronic followers think he's won.
The DUP will vote against, Farage has already said we should remain until another opportunity pops up and I suspect many in the ERG will vote against this tomorrow.
 
Drawdown said:
The deal is really is just an alternate backstop arrangement, a $39B payout agreement, and a 14 month deal for a new trade deal or a hard brexit. It mostly seals that Boris wins and his detractors are humiliated, and that is just too much pudding for some babies' mouths to handle.
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The problem is, May could have got this very same deal, and the hardcore "we want Brexit, and we want it now" people would have voted it down.

If people find it difficult to understand why the person who is PM is more important than the actual words of the deal, then why are you surprised?
 
Infinite Chaos said:
Except his moronic followers think he's won.
The DUP will vote against, Farage has already said we should remain until another opportunity pops up and I suspect many in the ERG will vote against this tomorrow.
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Oh, I dunno. What with today's development, he lost the vote (Letwin amendment) by 16 votes so he'll need 8 or 9 more on Monday.

That's hardly a slam dunk, yet many on "his side" voted as they did today as further insurance against a crash-out still seen as his his nefarious goal. With those I see it more as a massive expression of distrust in this pathological liar than as opposition to his deal.

But whatever, Monday will be close.
 
Infinite Chaos said:
The speaker probably will allow the vote but there's no guarantee he has to.
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Indeed.

Not sure anyway whether tabling the motion on Monday (or Tuesday) will actually constitute the no-no of tabling twice (as with May in her late years). Seeing how it wasn't voted upon today.

Meanwhile Donald Tusk has confirmed having received "the letter" and will begin conferring with EU Heads of States tomorrow. May take a few days (says he).

Word also has it that BoJo sent another letter saying he doesn't want what the first letter says.:roll:

This is far more than Ground Hog Day, more like "watch my pirouettes".
 
Chagos said:
Indeed.

Not sure anyway whether tabling the motion on Monday (or Tuesday) will actually constitute the no-no of tabling twice (as with May in her late years). Seeing how it wasn't voted upon today. Apparently a series of phone calls to reinforce the denial letters.

Meanwhile Donald Tusk has confirmed having received "the letter" and will begin conferring with EU Heads of States tomorrow. May take a few days (says he).

Word also has it that BoJo sent another letter saying he doesn't want what the first letter says.:roll:

This is far more than Ground Hog Day, more like "watch my pirouettes".
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Watching Andrew Marr on replay - BoJo sent 2-3 letters. The request (unsigned) on behalf of Parliament and the second from him saying he doesn't want an extension. Letwin being interviewed now - he voted for all 3 of May's deals and he will vote for the new deal when presented. He says the amendment was to ensure that there is no crash-out.

All sides agreeing at the moment, getting the deal done does not define the actual shape of Brexit once started and the next 14 months will be a bloody battle between protecting worker's rights (Labour) and a bonfire of legislation by the ERG minded.
Meanwhile, there could still be a vote of no-confidence before October 31st which replaces the current Prime Minister for one which will seek a deal.
 
I would wager that behind the scenes agents for the Johnson faction are trying to poison the extension process at the European and are looking to find European states to block it at the EU end. What would the UK Parliament do if the EU rejects an extension because one or two EU member states refuse to go along with the extension? Equally interesting is what would the EU do? Going further down the rabbit-hole, can Mr. Johnson's own cabinet use an order in council to somehow scupper the will of the parliament on a technicality regarding the extension process? I ask these questions because it is clear from reports that Johnson sent multiple letters to the EU and that such action breaks the spirit, if not the letter, of the Benn Act, therefore the act is not fully constraining his behaviour as other posters here have claimed it would.

Cheers.
Evilroddy.
 
Evilroddy said:
I would wager that behind the scenes agents for the Johnson faction are trying to poison the extension process at the European and are looking to find European states to block it at the EU end ~
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That's pretty much a certainty but the reports are that previous interactions with the European negotiators have demonstrated incompetence and naive negotiating - so I don't expect anything sophisticated is happening. Bojo still presents as a blustering buffoon and the Europeans expect this.

Evilroddy said:
~ What would the UK Parliament do if the EU rejects an extension because one or two EU member states refuse to go along with the extension?
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That will push a vote of no-confidence to replace BoJo and his Govt. This would also really push whether Corbyn would lead the temporary govt and whether the other parties would support him. At present they won't and most think Corbyn is actually very sympathetic to Brexit which is why he won't step aside as this scuppers Remain tactics.

Evilroddy said:
~ Equally interesting is what would the EU do?
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Widely accepted the EU would grant extension however we're not sure at present as BoJo has sent 3 letters, one of which clearly stating he doesn't want an extension. If BoJo has sweet-talked the Hungarians, the rest of the EU would still attempt to change the Hungarian's mind. I'm guessing the Hungarians are open to objecting because they can gain concessions from the rest of the EU when they look to extend.

Evilroddy said:
~ Going further down the rabbit-hole, can Mr. Johnson's own cabinet use an order in council to somehow scupper the will of the parliament on a technicality regarding the extension process? ~
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No, because as Brexiteers have discovered, sovereignty and power lies with Parliament and it is open to Parliament to tae control of the process.
 
Infinite Chaos said:
Watching Andrew Marr on replay - BoJo sent 2-3 letters. The request (unsigned) on behalf of Parliament and the second from him saying he doesn't want an extension. Letwin being interviewed now - he voted for all 3 of May's deals and he will vote for the new deal when presented. He says the amendment was to ensure that there is no crash-out.

All sides agreeing at the moment, getting the deal done does not define the actual shape of Brexit once started and the next 14 months will be a bloody battle between protecting worker's rights (Labour) and a bonfire of legislation by the ERG minded.
Meanwhile, there could still be a vote of no-confidence before October 31st which replaces the current Prime Minister for one which will seek a deal.
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That third letter could be contempt of court. I hope Joanna Cherry gets him locked up for it. What a spoiled brat petty-arse thing to do! "Here's an unsigned photocopy of a letter they made me send, but I don't want you to do what it says!" How ****ing childish is that? He really is Trump II with a classics education.
 
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